Jump to content
Brewer Fanatic
  • Young Third Basemen the Brewers Should Target in a Trade


    Tim Muma

    Finding a productive, long-term option at third base is essential for the Milwaukee Brewers to create consistent offensive success. The free agent market and trade block lacks tried-and-true bats at the hot corner, meaning GM Matt Arnold likely needs to take a chance via trade for a young, unproven third baseman.

    Image courtesy of Jerome Miron-USA TODAY Sports

    Brewers Video

     

    The Milwaukee Brewers have had short spurts of quality bats at third base in the past two decades. Travis Shaw in 2017-2018 was a bit of a surprise, while Aramis Ramirez offered solid production for most of his four seasons. Otherwise, the hot corner has been chiefly a revolving door with no young prospects or veteran staples to be "the guy."

    Milwaukee's 2022 offense improved from the previous season but lacked the true upper-level talent that clubs ride into the postseason. It was especially necessary for the Brewers last season as their stellar pitching suffered injuries and regression. Third base wasn't a barren wasteland, but relying on Luis Urias and Jace Peterson (with a dash of Mike Brosseau) didn't inspire greatness.

    The problem with upgrading the position in 2023 and beyond is a lack of options, at least for proven commodities. The free agent class is underwhelming at best, and a few players who might have been available are now off-limits. Nolan Arenado opted into his deal and is staying put in St. Louis. Jose Ramirez signed a long-term extension with Cleveland in April. Rafael Devers has one year left on his contract in Boston, so it's unlikely the Brewers will pay a high price for a rental. That leads to a different focus on the trade market.

    A handful of prospects and recently-promoted third basemen could be had for the right return. A couple players could require an elite arm, while others might need some creativity to swing a deal. Either way, Milwaukee should check in on these five third basemen.

    Josh Jung - Texas Rangers - 24 years old
    Jung was the Rangers' top prospect and saw 102 MLB plate appearances last season. His .654 OPS and 39:4 strikeout-to-walk ratio disappointed many, but it's just growing pains. Jung had a .326/.398/.592 (.990) slash line in 2021 between Double-A and Triple-A with 19 homers in 78 games. Scouts rate his hit tool at a 60-grade (20-80 scale) level, and his strong arm with average defense should be good enough at third to hold it down for a while.

    As you can imagine, pulling Jung from the Rangers would take a tantalizing player or package. Jung could be one of the guys that convinces the Brewers to trade Brandon Woodruff or Corbin Burnes if Texas included additional players.

    Curtis Mead - Tampa Bay Rays - 22 years old
    The Rays' second-best prospect has less power than Jung but has impressive plate discipline and bat control. Another 60-grade hitter, he posted a .390 OBP and .922 OPS in the minors last year (Double-A and Triple-A). Some see Mead moving to second base due to his weaker arm, though his offense would be a plus there. 

    There's more uncertainty with Mead's future value, so Tampa might be willing to move him for a reasonable price. The Rays also currently have veteran third baseman Yandy Diaz in tow. At 31 years old and due to make around $5 million in arbitration, Tampa may be more likely to shop Diaz and keep Mead (which could also work for the Brewers).

    Joe Perez - Houston Astros - 23 years old
    Perez sits as the Astros' ninth prospect, and his hit tool ranks lower (45) than the others. However, his raw power and bat speed can make up for his struggles to connect as often. There are some concerns over his dip in home runs last season (seven in 83 games), though some believe it is a speed bump. His arm injuries and less-than-ideal range mean third base is a short-term spot.

    Perez's arm issue and inconsistent bat could make Houston more apt to deal for a modest return. Milwaukee might only be keen on the risk involved if the cost was minimal.

    Mark Vientos - New York Mets - 22 years old
    The Mets' number seven prospect started six games as the DH for the big league club in 2022. Vientos is another big-time power bat who blasted 49 home runs the past two seasons, mostly in Triple-A. He does have a proneness to whiff but still hit .280 with an OBP over .350 across 2021 and 2022. While his arm plays well at third, his glove and athleticism are below standard.

    New York has Brett Baty (number two prospect) ready to play the hot corner and Pete Alonso at first base. So unless the Mets are good with Vientos being a primary DH and backup corner infielder, he could get them a strong return. How much would the Brewers be willing to give up from their pitching staff or farm system? It starts with that question.

    Jordan Westburg - Baltimore Orioles - 23 years old
    Westburg profiles as a gap-to-gap hitter with 25-homer potential in the majors. He is an all-around quality player with a .274/.371/.489/.860 slash line across four minor league levels in the past two years. That includes 39 doubles, 27 homers, and 106 RBI in 2022 in Double-A and Triple-A. He was drafted as a shortstop and is a plus defender, though many see third base as his permanent spot, especially since Baltimore has Gunnar Henderson.

    The Orioles are poised to make another push next season and may want to use some of their young talent to trade for proven big leaguers to take the next step. Milwaukee and Baltimore could be partners on a deal involving multiple players, and Westburg is an intriguing future star.

    If the Brewers go this route of trading for an up-and-coming third baseman, there will be a risk of failing to get the production they seek. Trades mostly come down to asking price and "fit," but to have a handful of clubs as potential partners would give Milwaukee better odds of pulling something off. Considering the offensive concerns and need for a young infield bat, these are some exciting options for the Brewers to explore if they're willing to give up enough player capital. Do you have any favorites from the list?

     

    Think you could write a story like this? Brewer Fanatic wants you to develop your voice, find an audience, and we'll pay you to do it. Just fill out this form.

    MORE FROM BREWER FANATIC
    — Latest Brewers coverage from our writers
    — Recent Brewers discussion in our forums
    — Follow Brewer Fanatic via Twitter, Facebook or email

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    5 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

    Right. But I don't think there are millions of dollars on the line. 

    If anything, if he plays 3B at an elite level, I think his value would go up. 

    Trea Turner moved to 2B(and played better there than he did at SS which as mentioned in his FA write up may assuage teams concerns about how he ages and loses his strongest physical attribute, his speed). 

    Adames will hit FA at the same age roughly. I doubt team are going to say, "well, he was an elite defensive SS when he was 26, but can he do it at...29?"

    Plus, he'd almost certainly get time at SS as I mentioned. 

    Except it's not as simple as him moving over and playing 3B at an elite level when he hasn't played there since 2013. He very well could do it, but I just don't see the Brewers making the move. Urias isn't bad enough at 3B to force it. Our problem in the infield this year was on the right side...

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    Except it's not as simple as him moving over and playing 3B at an elite level when he hasn't played there since 2013. He very well could do it, but I just don't see the Brewers making the move. Urias isn't bad enough at 3B to force it. Our problem in the infield this year was on the right side...

    I disagree. I think it is. 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    Except it's not as simple as him moving over and playing 3B at an elite level when he hasn't played there since 2013. He very well could do it, but I just don't see the Brewers making the move. Urias isn't bad enough at 3B to force it. Our problem in the infield this year was on the right side...

    I disagree. I think it is. 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    26 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    Lol. Okay.

    ....so you think it's unlikely that an elite SS with a strong arm would be able to play 3B? Is THAT the argument? Adames can't do it or is unlikely to do it? Because that's a very different argument. 

    Yet that's generally what happens with SS's when they lose their range. They move to 3B. Unless they lack arm strength, then they move to 2B. 

    He's played SS because there hasn't been a reason NOT to play him at SS. 

    It's like arguing it's not as simple as moving a CFer(with a very strong arm...say a Garrett Mitchell) to RF because...he just might not have success there. You're doing the same thing...it's just a less difficult position. 


    You're also making that argument while simultaneously arguing FOR Luis Urias to stay at 3B because he's "fine" there. Urias was a SS coming up. A SS who they said profiled more as a 2B. 

    So where is the complication in moving Adames over to 3B with regard to his ABILITY to play the position?

    Arm? Check
    Range? Check
    Hands? Check

    Him playing 20 feet away is going to fundamentally change his ability to pick up a ball and throw it? Why? 

    How many good defensive Shortstops have we seen move from SS to 3B and struggle? 

     

    Or...as I suggested earlier, we COULD just agree to disagree. 
     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    26 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    Lol. Okay.

    ....so you think it's unlikely that an elite SS with a strong arm would be able to play 3B? Is THAT the argument? Adames can't do it or is unlikely to do it? Because that's a very different argument. 

    Yet that's generally what happens with SS's when they lose their range. They move to 3B. Unless they lack arm strength, then they move to 2B. 

    He's played SS because there hasn't been a reason NOT to play him at SS. 

    It's like arguing it's not as simple as moving a CFer(with a very strong arm...say a Garrett Mitchell) to RF because...he just might not have success there. You're doing the same thing...it's just a less difficult position. 


    You're also making that argument while simultaneously arguing FOR Luis Urias to stay at 3B because he's "fine" there. Urias was a SS coming up. A SS who they said profiled more as a 2B. 

    So where is the complication in moving Adames over to 3B with regard to his ABILITY to play the position?

    Arm? Check
    Range? Check
    Hands? Check

    Him playing 20 feet away is going to fundamentally change his ability to pick up a ball and throw it? Why? 

    How many good defensive Shortstops have we seen move from SS to 3B and struggle? 

     

    Or...as I suggested earlier, we COULD just agree to disagree. 
     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    25 minutes ago, SomewhereInTime said:

    Maybe it's been covered already, but isn't there a transaction rumors &proposals forum for these types of threads?

    It has been. The articles go into the main forum...

    And the author is apparently going position by position looking at next years teams. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    25 minutes ago, SomewhereInTime said:

    Maybe it's been covered already, but isn't there a transaction rumors &proposals forum for these types of threads?

    It has been. The articles go into the main forum...

    And the author is apparently going position by position looking at next years teams. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    46 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

    ....so you think it's unlikely that an elite SS with a strong arm would be able to play 3B? Is THAT the argument? Adames can't do it or is unlikely to do it? Because that's a very different argument. 

    Yet that's generally what happens with SS's when they lose their range. They move to 3B. Unless they lack arm strength, then they move to 2B. 

    He's played SS because there hasn't been a reason NOT to play him at SS. 

    It's like arguing it's not as simple as moving a CFer(with a very strong arm...say a Garrett Mitchell) to RF because...he just might not have success there. You're doing the same thing...it's just a less difficult position. 


    You're also making that argument while simultaneously arguing FOR Luis Urias to stay at 3B because he's "fine" there. Urias was a SS coming up. A SS who they said profiled more as a 2B. 

    So where is the complication in moving Adames over to 3B with regard to his ABILITY to play the position?

    Arm? Check
    Range? Check
    Hands? Check

    Him playing 20 feet away is going to fundamentally change his ability to pick up a ball and throw it? Why? 

    How many good defensive Shortstops have we seen move from SS to 3B and struggle? 

     

    Or...as I suggested earlier, we COULD just agree to disagree. 
     

    I literally said he very well COULD do it, BUT it's a little naive to think that you can just move him over to 3B when he hasn't played there in almost a decade, and he'll instantaneously be every bit as elite as he is at SS. I just think Turang at 2B and Adames at SS maximizes both their offensive and defensive abilities, while the upgrade from Urias at 2B vs. 3B is relatively marginal. And wouldn't you rather Adames focus on his offensive consistency, as opposed to having him learn a new position? If he can produce at his 2021 level on offense over the course of a full season with this year's defensive production at SS, you're looking at close to a 7 WAR player. Either way, there's no indication the Brewers have even considered moving Adames to 3B, so this debate is probably over nothing. 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    46 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

    ....so you think it's unlikely that an elite SS with a strong arm would be able to play 3B? Is THAT the argument? Adames can't do it or is unlikely to do it? Because that's a very different argument. 

    Yet that's generally what happens with SS's when they lose their range. They move to 3B. Unless they lack arm strength, then they move to 2B. 

    He's played SS because there hasn't been a reason NOT to play him at SS. 

    It's like arguing it's not as simple as moving a CFer(with a very strong arm...say a Garrett Mitchell) to RF because...he just might not have success there. You're doing the same thing...it's just a less difficult position. 


    You're also making that argument while simultaneously arguing FOR Luis Urias to stay at 3B because he's "fine" there. Urias was a SS coming up. A SS who they said profiled more as a 2B. 

    So where is the complication in moving Adames over to 3B with regard to his ABILITY to play the position?

    Arm? Check
    Range? Check
    Hands? Check

    Him playing 20 feet away is going to fundamentally change his ability to pick up a ball and throw it? Why? 

    How many good defensive Shortstops have we seen move from SS to 3B and struggle? 

     

    Or...as I suggested earlier, we COULD just agree to disagree. 
     

    I literally said he very well COULD do it, BUT it's a little naive to think that you can just move him over to 3B when he hasn't played there in almost a decade, and he'll instantaneously be every bit as elite as he is at SS. I just think Turang at 2B and Adames at SS maximizes both their offensive and defensive abilities, while the upgrade from Urias at 2B vs. 3B is relatively marginal. And wouldn't you rather Adames focus on his offensive consistency, as opposed to having him learn a new position? If he can produce at his 2021 level on offense over the course of a full season with this year's defensive production at SS, you're looking at close to a 7 WAR player. Either way, there's no indication the Brewers have even considered moving Adames to 3B, so this debate is probably over nothing. 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    59 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

    Ok...but he barely has 3000 career innings at any position.

    So we have what we have to go on. The Brewers saw him struggling at SS, they made a trade. 

    We saw him play 2B last year, he was better there.

    His prospect profile showed that he had a fringe arm.

    I don't think you need to give him 3000 innings at 3B because you conclude he's likely a better fit for 3B. 

    You have defensive metrics. DRS says he's elite at 3B in his career, UZR says he's average, and OAA says he's below average. 2 of the 3 available metrics rate him average or better. That suggests more time unless you find a better bat to play the position. Just because scouting reports say someone is an 'elite' defensive player doesn't mean they actually will be in the majors. Orlando Arcia was a top 10 prospect in baseball because scouts saw an elite defender, and that never materialized in the majors. He was average at best at SS.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    59 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

    Ok...but he barely has 3000 career innings at any position.

    So we have what we have to go on. The Brewers saw him struggling at SS, they made a trade. 

    We saw him play 2B last year, he was better there.

    His prospect profile showed that he had a fringe arm.

    I don't think you need to give him 3000 innings at 3B because you conclude he's likely a better fit for 3B. 

    You have defensive metrics. DRS says he's elite at 3B in his career, UZR says he's average, and OAA says he's below average. 2 of the 3 available metrics rate him average or better. That suggests more time unless you find a better bat to play the position. Just because scouting reports say someone is an 'elite' defensive player doesn't mean they actually will be in the majors. Orlando Arcia was a top 10 prospect in baseball because scouts saw an elite defender, and that never materialized in the majors. He was average at best at SS.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    30 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    I literally said he very well COULD do it, BUT it's a little naive to think that you can just move him over to 3B when he hasn't played there in almost a decade, and he'll instantaneously be every bit as elite as he is at SS. I just think Turang at 2B and Adames at SS maximizes both their offensive and defensive abilities, while the upgrade from Urias at 2B vs. 3B is relatively marginal. And wouldn't you rather Adames focus on his offensive consistency, as opposed to having him learn a new position? If he can produce at his 2021 level on offense over the course of a full season with this year's defensive production at SS, you're looking at close to a 7 WAR player. Either way, there's no indication the Brewers have even considered moving Adames to 3B, so this debate is probably over nothing. 

     

    Ok...I get all of that. But what I DO need explained is if you're 2B, SS and 3B includes Adames, Urias and Turang...why should we care at ALL how their positions fit their offense? It quite literally makes no difference. 

    With regard to Adames, I really don't think he'd be spending much time at all learning a new position. It's a simple transition. I actually think SS to 2B is quite a bit more difficult. When to cover on a SB, on a bunt, you're on the opposite side of the IF, the throwing angles change. I think asking him to play 1B(for example) would be FAR more difficult than 3B as a SS. 

    But again, we clearly have a different opinion on that. 

    I also really think Urias is better suited at 2B. He's quick, good range...not a great arm. But sure, lets say it's marginal. It may be.

     

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    30 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

    I literally said he very well COULD do it, BUT it's a little naive to think that you can just move him over to 3B when he hasn't played there in almost a decade, and he'll instantaneously be every bit as elite as he is at SS. I just think Turang at 2B and Adames at SS maximizes both their offensive and defensive abilities, while the upgrade from Urias at 2B vs. 3B is relatively marginal. And wouldn't you rather Adames focus on his offensive consistency, as opposed to having him learn a new position? If he can produce at his 2021 level on offense over the course of a full season with this year's defensive production at SS, you're looking at close to a 7 WAR player. Either way, there's no indication the Brewers have even considered moving Adames to 3B, so this debate is probably over nothing. 

     

    Ok...I get all of that. But what I DO need explained is if you're 2B, SS and 3B includes Adames, Urias and Turang...why should we care at ALL how their positions fit their offense? It quite literally makes no difference. 

    With regard to Adames, I really don't think he'd be spending much time at all learning a new position. It's a simple transition. I actually think SS to 2B is quite a bit more difficult. When to cover on a SB, on a bunt, you're on the opposite side of the IF, the throwing angles change. I think asking him to play 1B(for example) would be FAR more difficult than 3B as a SS. 

    But again, we clearly have a different opinion on that. 

    I also really think Urias is better suited at 2B. He's quick, good range...not a great arm. But sure, lets say it's marginal. It may be.

     

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    6 hours ago, UpandIn said:

    This is exactly the argument. Adames and Turang are going to be starting next year(most likely). 

    Turang at 2B is a bit of a waste of his defensive ability. Adames at 3B, especially with the new rules regarding the shift...is not a waste defensively. 

     

    No, it's not. 2B is right after SS on the position spectrum.

    It's not like little league where you hide your worst defenders at 2B and RF.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    6 hours ago, UpandIn said:

    This is exactly the argument. Adames and Turang are going to be starting next year(most likely). 

    Turang at 2B is a bit of a waste of his defensive ability. Adames at 3B, especially with the new rules regarding the shift...is not a waste defensively. 

     

    No, it's not. 2B is right after SS on the position spectrum.

    It's not like little league where you hide your worst defenders at 2B and RF.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    40 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

    No, it's not. 2B is right after SS on the position spectrum.

    It's not like little league where you hide your worst defenders at 2B and RF.

     

    I...I don't know what type of baseball you grew up playing, but we DEFINITELY did not "hide" our our defender at 2B. 

    But fine, lets go with that. It's to the left of SS. Turang is an elite defensive SS. Ergo, it's a BIT of a waste. 

     

    Also, again, do people remember when we moved TRAVIS SHAW to 2B and he performed well?

    a different world i rest my case GIF

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    40 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

    No, it's not. 2B is right after SS on the position spectrum.

    It's not like little league where you hide your worst defenders at 2B and RF.

     

    I...I don't know what type of baseball you grew up playing, but we DEFINITELY did not "hide" our our defender at 2B. 

    But fine, lets go with that. It's to the left of SS. Turang is an elite defensive SS. Ergo, it's a BIT of a waste. 

     

    Also, again, do people remember when we moved TRAVIS SHAW to 2B and he performed well?

    a different world i rest my case GIF

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Turang is not an elite defensive SS, BA has him graded at 50 field and 50 arm, while MLB pipeline has him at 60 field and 55 arm. My eye-test from watching him play approximately 10 games in-stadium is above average field with a slightly above average arm, so no Adames.

    Keep Adames at SS, put Turang at 2B and have Urias at 3B. Turang’s range at 2B and better arm than Urias will payoff with the shift limitations, and should also payoff with more DP’s with Turang having a must faster release than Urias.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Turang is not an elite defensive SS, BA has him graded at 50 field and 50 arm, while MLB pipeline has him at 60 field and 55 arm. My eye-test from watching him play approximately 10 games in-stadium is above average field with a slightly above average arm, so no Adames.

    Keep Adames at SS, put Turang at 2B and have Urias at 3B. Turang’s range at 2B and better arm than Urias will payoff with the shift limitations, and should also payoff with more DP’s with Turang having a must faster release than Urias.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I agree with the idea that Willy should be a great at 3rd defensively, but ultimately this all comes down to Turang. The organization should know well enough if he is going to handle 2B and transition to SS or just take over right away.  I think from Willy perspective SS would be better, he has a chance(s) to win a gold glove at SS but I doubt at 3rd he would win one over Arenado or Hayes. That being said I don't think Willy would be one to make a big stink if it was best for the team.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I agree with the idea that Willy should be a great at 3rd defensively, but ultimately this all comes down to Turang. The organization should know well enough if he is going to handle 2B and transition to SS or just take over right away.  I think from Willy perspective SS would be better, he has a chance(s) to win a gold glove at SS but I doubt at 3rd he would win one over Arenado or Hayes. That being said I don't think Willy would be one to make a big stink if it was best for the team.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...