Is there any chance of Sheets in a Brewer uniform beyond '08? (Merged with Lose Lose Situation)

[Oldcity]

No.

 

It's the same as Zito's situation was a couple years ago.

Sorry, but why is it the same as Zito's but different from Zambrano, Peavy or Oswalt? The way I see it all pitchers were in similar situations. The difference is that the A's had no interest in retaining their guy while the other teams did. If Sheets pitches well the Brewers will be interested.

[twobrewers]

Can't see Benny in a uni other than a big market team, or some team with a seriously low payroll. He's too much of a risk even if he excels this year.

As I mentioned, lots of the big market teams are pretty well set with arms. Obviously, there will still be a need - but I don't see a bidding war breaking out.

 

As to your point that he is too much of a risk even if he excels...If Ben excels this year, much of the risk is removed. While I am not in favor of signing him, if he pitches 220 innings that will speak volumes to his durability.

 

Remember, his injury history isn't like Prior or Woods. He has had many unrelated injuries. So it isn't really a cumulative effect. In my mind, he is either past his nagging injuries...or never will be.

[TooLiveBrew]

As I mentioned, lots of the big market teams are pretty well set with arms. Obviously, there will still be a need - but I don't see a bidding war breaking out.

 

Really? I certainly see his services instigating a bidding war if he throws north of 150 IP in 2008. What big market team are you talking about that wouldn't seriously improve their SP situation by adding Ben? He's so good that you sign him first, and worry about what to do with your Mussinas, Schmidts, Wakefields, & Perez-es later. As I posted earlier, I can't think of a big market that wouldn't have room for Ben in their rotation.

 

 

In my mind, he is either past his nagging injuries...or never will be.

Bingo. If I were in any kind of situation to sign Sheets after '08, the injuries he's had wouldn't hinder my evaluation in the least. Look at how much Jason Schmidt got from a contender - with much bigger injury questions (that happened to re-surface painfully) than Ben.

[brewcrewreview]

I think Stevo brings up the best point here. If we really want to sign him, we can.

[monty57]

The Brewers could afford him, but it would likely come at the cost of some of the younger talent. With the Tulo deal and Howard getting $10MM in the first year of arby, the talk coming out of the camp seems to be about the possibility of locking up Braun and Fielder (and possibly others) long term. I'm happy that the team's salary has been going up, but I can't imagine that they'd be able to pay Sheets $18+MM / year and still be able to pay Fielder, Braun and Yo $10+MM in arby each plus keep Hardy, Hart and the rest. Who knows, by the time Braun hits arby, he may get $15MM in his first year. I'd guess "Sheets' money" will go to lock up other players, and Ben will pitch elsewhere next year, leaving us with two draft picks, unless something goes drastically wrong this season, enabling the Brewers to trade him at deadline.

 

It's early, but a likely scenario may be to control their costs by locking up some of the younger talent long term, eliminating the possibility of a surprise arby raise like Howard's $9.1MM pay raise. If there are no significant injuries, Parra and maybe even Villanueva could play much of this season in AAA, giving the Brewers another year of their service. Meanwhile, Sheets, Yo, Suppan, Cappy and Bush will fill out the rotation with Vargas as a backup starter / long man out of the pen. At this point, keeping Parra and Villy an extra season makes sense, as they have other capable starters on the roster. This could easily change if either someone on the Brewers gets injured, necessitating a trade of a starter for a replacement, or if a starter on another team gets injured, forcing another team to make a decent trade offer for Cappy Bush or Vargas.

 

Of course, if they were able to trade Suppan and Sheets were willing to sign a two-year deal, it could happen, but that doesn't seem very likely.

[brettac1]

Sorry, but why is it the same as Zito's but different from Zambrano, Peavy or Oswalt? The way I see it all pitchers were in similar situations. The difference is that the A's had no interest in retaining their guy while the other teams did. If Sheets pitches well the Brewers will be interested.

 

For one, none of them got to this point without already signing their extension. The Cubs and Astros both have far more money than the Brewers do. In Peavy's case, he was only 26 when he signed his deal, which probably made it more attractive to the Padres than a 30 year old Sheets would be to the Brewers.

[twobrewers]

As I posted earlier, I can't think of a big market that wouldn't have room for Ben in their rotation.

Well, the Yankees will likely have Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Joba all with spots.

 

Boston has Beckett, Dice K, Lester and Buchholtz.

 

I am not saying those teams couldn't use him. But without a huge need, they aren't likely to go crazy. When you had a team like the Mets this year - who absolutely needed an ace, the price goes up. At least a few of the big market teams would be adding Ben as a #2/3 starter.

 

But after looking at a few depth charts and thinking - I bet Houston would be mighty interested.

[TooLiveBrew]

At least a few of the big market teams would be adding Ben as a #2/3 starter.

 

Exactly. No matter if he's your #1, 2, or on the outside chance, 3... Ben Sheets makes you a better team. You came up with 4 starting rotation examples in NYY & Boston - kind of what I was getting at. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif It doesn't take an all-out, Bos-NYY bidding war to drive up a pitcher of Ben's quality to 4 yrs./$70 mil., which is far out of the Brewers' price range given the other contract renewals to come (imo).

 

Houston would definitely be a suitor for Ben, as would - I imagine - ... *gulp* the Cubs.

[Oldcity]

For one, none of them got to this point without already signing their extension. The Cubs and Astros both have far more money than the Brewers do. In Peavy's case, he was only 26 when he signed his deal, which probably made it more attractive to the Padres than a 30 year old Sheets would be to the Brewers.

What do you mean by "none of them got to this point?" Zambrano was set to be a free agent in '08 but signed during the regular season in '07, so he was past this point.

 

Sure, the Cubs and Astros have more money, but that's not really a big issue. The Brewers can just trade Suppan after this year to free up money for Ben if they want to. Plus after another great year of attendance, one has to think the payroll will go up at least a little once again in '09. It would basically be a wash if they move Suppan, and with Cameron and Gagne coming off the books as well it still leaves plenty of room to sign the younger guys hitting arbitration.

 

I have to say I believe Sheets will get a four-year extension if he stays healthy this season.

[bobbledude25]

The truth hurts here but if he has a great season the Brewers wont be able to afford him. If he gets hurt again obviously not good but we'll be able to afford him. Ugh

[Fatter than Joey]

If he has a great season -- we go to the playoffs. At the end of the day, what happens to Sheets after we make the playoffs (on his back) is of secondary consequence.

[Time for a Miller]

I hope Sheets wins the Cy Young this year. Who cares where he goes after that. Somebody will overpay him and give him way to many years. He is great when he's healthy and will cash in regardless of what happens this season. Only if he has a real blow up season, like 5 starts or less, will we resign him. Then we would probably only resign him for one year at around 8 million.

[ozzybourne]

with salaries again set to skyrocket the next couple of years (see post regarding the year 2018) for all teams--thanks to an influx of good young talent and full baseball stadiums--and with limited media revenue for the brewers, there is only one thing DM can do to turn/keep this team a consistent winner. draft picks and the farm system.

 

we will lose some players to free agency due to $$$ issues--sheets in 2009, probably fielder in 3 years, ? after that, but with creative financing of buying out arby years and good draft picks from free agent losses, a rule V here and there, we can stay competitive.

 

the scary part of this is to having to be very good and very lucky with your draft to add a crop like hall,fielder,hardy,hart,gallardo.weeks.braun every 4-5 years.

[RyDogg66]

I got to thinking about where Sheets will end up next year. As much as I hate to say it, I think it will be with the Yankees. I know that they are trying to skew younger, but they have some enormous contracts coming off the books this season.

 

The lose Mussina (13 mil?) Giambi (21 mil) Abreu (18 mil?) Pettitte (if he retires).

 

The other destination that makes sense is Atlanta. From what I can remember their FO has loved him for a while, and there is a chance they lose Glavine, Hampton and Smoltz at the end of the year, all due to retirement. Plus Benny is a southern guy.

 

Id put Braves/Yankees at even to land him, somewhere in the neighborhood of 18-20 million a year.

[TooLiveBrew]

Never count out the Red Sox (who are without Schilling), Dodgers, Mets, Chicago's duo, or even Philly. Heck, McLane seems to think the Astros are just a player or two away still! With no ill-intent toward RyDogg, I see no way to handicap the Sheetstakes right now.

[aracko]

What are we going to do? Either sign him before the year is up or he is gone. Its pretty amazing - I have been so down on him the last few years cause of these nagging injuries but seeing him healthy and just flat out dominating really makes me feel like the backside of a donkey.

 

 

As much as I want Prince here long term, I am starting to think that Sheets is the more important player, especially with Laporta coming thru the system.

 

 

I am glad that its not my job to figure this one out. The way I look at it though is we are winning without the real prince fielder right now.

[RyDogg66]

With all due respect Aracko, Sheets has been great when he has been able to pitch + his injuries were more of a "freak" nature and never about his elbow or shoulder. I said all along that our best time to resign Ben was this offseason, 5 years 65 million or so, and that if we didnt he was gone. We didnt, and now, he's all but gone.

 

I never knew why so many people here and in general were down on Sheets. He always, always pitched well, it wasnt like he was trying to get hurt, or was wimping out and not wanting to play or that he had a contract year in 2004 and then mailed it in for 4 years. But yet so many seemed to actually dislike him personally.

 

I know you cant count out Boston, Chicago, etc. etc., but I think it will be New York or Atlanta.

[aracko]

No disrespect taken. Maybe he is going to have another freak injury, I dont know. All I am saying is that I forgot how great he is when he is healthy.

[TooLiveBrew]

I know that, heading into the start of this season, I almost had to remind myself that Ben Sheets is healthy & our #1 SP. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

it wasnt like he was ... wimping out and not wanting to play

 

This really depends on who you ask... I know I've heard that there are people in the game who very much felt this way. I think it's probably nonsense, but I just thought it should at least be considered.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be resigned. The rotation is below avg without him and we will have a very hard time competing for the playoffs without Sheets. A rotation of Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Parra and Villy has a chance to be pretty good but without Benny the rotation has more question marks than answers. Seriously do we really know how good Parra and Villy will become? I think both have a chance to be good but I certainly cant say I am sure about either. Suppan is a very expensive innings eater and nothing more and Gallardo has the potential to be an ace. Any way you slice it this team desperately needs to resign him in order for this team to compete for the playoffs for years to come.

[craigharmann]

The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be resigned.

I was just going to say that! We know what we have in Sheets. Granted, he's had some injuries, but when healthy, he's an ace. Yo has the potential to be a #1 as well, and Parra has some great stuff. Imagine in 2-3 years facing a rotation of Sheets, Yo, Parra, possibly Jeffress, and Villanueva?? Even throwing the first 4 out there in the postseason is a tough foursome to face. To me, it's worth it to resign Sheets.

[rluzinski]

The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be resigned.

 

And many fans of other teams are saying, "The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be signed next year."

[Invader3K]

The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be resigned.

 

And many fans of other teams are saying, "The hardest thing to find in baseball is a true number one starter and that is why Sheets needs to be signed next year."

Definitely. Sheets is going to do the "test the free agent market" thing, and some team is going to make him a huge offer that the Brewers can't possibly match, or like in the case of Cordero, won't be given a chance to match.

[orca1963]

There is a definite possibility of him resigning. Benny could have gotten more money last time around and he chose to stay with the Brewers. Maybe he became another greedy athlete (sorry but when you get past a million and you need more you are greedy) but he seems to me to be of the Brett Favre mentality...he loves what he is doing and money--though very important--is not everything.

[Gobias Industries]

TooLiveBrew[/b]]This really depends on who you ask... I know I've heard that there are people in the game who very much felt this way. I think it's probably nonsense, but I just thought it should at least be considered.

This really bugs me. I know you don't think he was TLB, but people who say this kind of stuff are fools. Why would a player want to cost himself future earnings by sitting out and being tagged as injury prone?

 

It's just like the idiot "diehard" Cub fans who thought Mark Prior was being a wimp. Fans always know best though. I mean, he only turned out to have one of the most damaged pitching arms of his generation.