Villenueva Is opening in the Minors a possiblity? (Yost hints they may not go with 5 best starters)

[fondybrewfan]

Check out Haudricourt's latest Blog entry at JSOnline. He states that there is a possibility that Villy could start the season n the minors since according to Yost he has options left and he might due what it takes to maintain their surplus of pitching. I would assume that to mean if no one seperates themselves and since certain pitchers have no options remaining that he might entertain putting Villy in the minors.

 

To me this seems ludicrous. There cant be 11 other pitchers that are better than Villy, I dont care if he has to go to the pen but sending him down would be idiotic in my opinion.

[trwi7]

He better not be in the minors.

[bork]

I don't see how he gets sent down. Parra would be the likely one to get sent down. And Gallardo likely starts on the DL to get a "full spring".

[And That]

That would be a tough draw for Villanueva.

[Ennder]

Yeah I think the Gallardo injury more or less solved this issue at least for the first 2-3 weeks of the season. If we still have the glut when Gallardo comes back then I don't know what will happen.

 

Parra starting in the minors is almost a certainty unless someone gets traded or hurt.

[erbacaine04]

Yeah Parra will likely be down in Triple A until maybe June.....

 

Villy I am still not sold on him like some of you guys are but I could see them keep Villy down the first month as well because the 5th starter is not all that needed BUT that only happens if Yovanni comes back sooner than expected(which according to Yost, Hardicourt and Yovanni...nothing has been ruled out yet)

Open the season off with

Sheets

Suppan

Cappuano

Bush

Villanuauva

 

Vargas as the long man.....

 

When Gallardo comes back ...then drop Villy to the minors until a trade is set up for Vargas, Bush or Cappuano...

 

Or they can then just say Vargas has an arm injury put him on the DL.......and have Villy take that spot....

[Teatoe993]

I remember Melvin stating that Villy was out of options on one of the "Talking Brewers" episodes. At least I think I remember. Can anyone confirm? Either way, I will be furious if we see Villy in a Nashville uniform.

[erbacaine04]

I remember Melvin stating that Villy was out of options on one of the "Talking Brewers" episodes. At least I think I remember. Can anyone confirm? Either way, I will be furious if we see Villy in a Nashville uniform.

 

No i doubt he is because he was only first called up in 2006.... and you can send him up and down in a year as much as you want.... and he was sent down for a bit in 2007 as well.... So I am sure he still has options.... Hell if Gross still had options last year then I think Villy still has options...

[Brian the Automator]

No i doubt he is because he was only first called up in 2006.... and you can send him up and down in a year as much as you want.... and he was sent down for a bit in 2007 as well.... So I am sure he still has options.... Hell if Gross still had options last year then I think Villy still has options...

Villanueva has 2 option years left.

 

However, your reasoning isn't exactly correct. It's frequent that players get added to the 40-man roster and start burning option years prior to their initial major league callup.

 

[Brian the Automator]

Check out Haudricourt's latest Blog entry at JSOnline. He states that there is a possibility that Villy could start the season n the minors since according to Yost he has options left and he might due what it takes to maintain their surplus of pitching. I would assume that to mean if no one seperates themselves and since certain pitchers have no options remaining that he might entertain putting Villy in the minors.

 

To me this seems ludicrous. There cant be 11 other pitchers that are better than Villy, I dont care if he has to go to the pen but sending him down would be idiotic in my opinion.

Seems like classic front-office posturing to me. The team exists in 2008 to win games, even if it means dumping off surplus starting pitching for not-so-great of a return. This just shows potential suitors that the Brewers would be "willing" to send Villy down. I really don't see that happening.

 

[derflotr]

This makes me sad.

 

A couple of things I thought were set in stone at the start of this offseason was Carlos Villanueva's entrenchment in the starting rotation to start the season, and that Claudio Vargas would be gone as soon as possible.

 

...this makes me sad, just the thought to do it bothers me.

[Ennder]

I don't think Villanueva makes the rotation regardless. I think they go with Bush/Capauno and hope that one starts out hot and raises his trade value. I'm personally not convinced Villanueva is better than either of them in the first place so it won't bother me too much. Now if Vargas is on the team and Villanueva is in the minors, that does bother me.

[TheHappyYoungster]

Villanueva and his "changeup" need to be in that big league starting rotation come opening day. What does he have left to prove? We're already heavy with righties in the rotation and that changeup is just as effective against lefties as righties. In my opinion, this helps balance the starting five a little better if the Brewers insist on sending Parra down and giving Bush the fifth-spot.

 

"Happy"

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[AJAY]

I can't believe they are considering sending Villanueva to the minors. This is ridiculous. He should be guaranteed a spot in the rotation so he can just relax and pitch.

 

How about sending Ned Yost to the minors instead? That makes much more sense to me.

[DrWood]

personally, I think it would be worse to send parra to nashville than villanueva, since parra is older (and better). clearly I'm in the minority.

[twobrewers]

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Villenueva been pitching much better than his peripheral numbers suggest?

 

Most scouts seems him as a #4 starter at best. And realistically a #5.

 

I really like him. But I am not sold on the fact that he is more deserving than Bush or Capuano.

 

(Keith Law today said if the Brewers are serious about winning then Parra should log at least 150 MLB innings)

[DrWood]

I am NOT Keith Law. Just in case folks were wondering. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[logan82]

Let me start by saying, good thread topic. You have restored my faith in BF.net. This is why I come here. I don't think Villanueva going to the minors this year was something that had seriously crossed my mind. It would make sense though to have him take Gallardo's spot in the rotation untill he comes back then send him down to the minors to continue starting. Somebody in our rotation is going to get hurt and having him in AAA ready to come up and start on short notice would be a pretty good idea. I personally think we would be better off trading Vargas and keeping Villanueva in Milwaukee.

 

personally, I think it would be worse to send parra to nashville than villanueva, since parra is older (and better). clearly I'm in the minority.

 

Yes, you are, but that doesn't make you wrong. The main reason Villanueva is chosen over Parra is experience. Experience counts more than pitching well in Spring Training.

[endaround]

The main reason is that Parra has yet to actually pitch for any length of time without getting hurt.

[AJOHNSON104]

I've thought that his going to the minors was always likely.

If he doesn't outpitch the other candidates by a large enough margin to stay, you keep the veterans and send the guy with options to the minors. Then when you make a trade or someone gets hurt, he's still available. If you keep him (when he's relatively equal tot eh other options) and release the veteran, when someone gets hurt later on, you need to call up a Zach Jack or lesser talent and you get what we used to have in Milwaukee, 5th starters who go 4 innings and have ERAS or 6.

This is why Melvin keeps talking about depth. I believe we had 8 guys start a game last year. That's probably pretty close to average. If we start getting rid of competent major league starters to keep guys with options, we'll end up with a lesser option later.

[Ennder]

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Villenueva been pitching much better than his peripheral numbers suggest?

 

Most scouts seems him as a #4 starter at best. And realistically a #5.

 

I really like him. But I am not sold on the fact that he is more deserving than Bush or Capuano.

 

(Keith Law today said if the Brewers are serious about winning then Parra should log at least 150 MLB innings)

 

Yes he has, he has over 4 BB per 9 which is pretty bad, his FB% was 47 which is really bad and his xERA last year was 4.56. He is young though and there is time for those numbers to improve but as I said before, I'm not confident that he is better than Capuano and Bush for this year.

[brewjihad]

According to The Official Site:

 

A number of candidates for spots in the starting rotation behind Ben Sheets and Jeff Suppan have Minor League options remaining, including Dave Bush, Chris Capuano, Yovani Gallardo, Manny Parra and, yes, Villanueva. Only one of the competitors -- Claudio Vargas -- doesn't have an option.

So Vargas is the only one that doesn't have one. I'm surprised by that.

[logan82]

I think Bush and Capuano have to pass through waivers due to their time in the majors. 1992casey has posted the information in the past.

[JohnBriggs12]

Adam McCalvy writes that "The team would base its choices on something other than who are our best five starters".

 

According to Yost: "We did that all the time in Atlanta"

 

The gist of the article is that Villanueva could be optioned despite the fact he has as strong case for being one of the 5 (I'd say 3rd) best starters.

 

Apparently "roster control" is more important than having your best players on the field. Man what a tragedy it would be if they lost control of Vargas or the lefty that's on a 22 appearence losing streak that everyone here is so fond of.

 

That strategy worked in Atlanta because their top 3 pitchers were all Hall of Famers (Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz). It doesn't work when your number 2 starter is rehabbing from knee surgery and your number 3 starter pitched like a number 5 last year.

 

And you guys wonder why my posts have tended to be negative. I just don't trust this management group to give this team the best chance and that guys is the biggest weakness of this team.

[Ennder]

Your posts are negative because you are a pessimist who assumes the worst. There is no real reason to expect Capuano to be bad this year other than you being a pessimist. Why not let him pitch and see if his velocity is back after the surgery before condemning him. While I think Villanueva should probably be in the rotation he had over 4 BB/9 last year and a 47% FB. These are terrible indicators that pretty much show that the ERA was a fluke for last year at least. He is young enough to improve but there is no way you can say without a doubt he is one of the best 5 starters on the team. He certainly makes a strong case to at least make the team though, i won't disagree with that at all.

 

As long as you rely on ERA and W's to judge a pitcher you'll probably always hate the moves the team makes because they use stats/scouting that mean a lot more to make their decisions.