Are pitching wins an accurate measure of a pitcher's value?

[TerraceReserved]

over the last 3 years the brewers ahve won 239 games, while the astros have won 244.

 

over the last 3 years sheets has won 28 games, while oswalt has won 49 games.

 

so what is your point? jonny briggs is correct.

 

 

Not quite. Over the past 7 years, Houston has scored 5355 runs, for an average of 765 a year. In that time, Milwaukee has scored 4972 runs, for 710 a year. The runs that Houston scored play a large part in his number of wins.

 

And besides, the point is moot. I don't think anyone would argue that Sheets has produced more by any statistical measure. He has a career 3.07 ERA to Sheets' 3.83. Sheets has 1229 IP, Oswalt has 1413 IP. Oswalt has a career FIP of 3.36 and Sheets a 3.76.

 

Oswalts been better, no doubt about it. His team has also scored more runs behind him. Bringing up that example doesn't prove anything toward the validity of W/L records.

[Ennder]

Over the past 3 years Oswalt has the 2nd most wins in all of baseball and Sheets has been hurt part of all 3 years. So yeah I'm not too surprised they don't compare. Oswalt also had possibly the best defensive SS in the last 100 years playing behind him (yes many think Everett is better than Ozzie was). Oswalt is a great pitcher, that doesn't mean Sheets isn't because he cannot match a .645 W% over the last 3 years. Very few pitchers in the history of the game match that.

[Ennder]

Over the past 3 years Oswalt has the 2nd most wins in all of baseball and Sheets has been hurt part of all 3 years. So yeah I'm not too surprised they don't compare. Oswalt also had possibly the best defensive SS in the last 100 years playing behind him (yes many think Everett is better than Ozzie was). Oswalt is a great pitcher, that doesn't mean Sheets isn't because he cannot match a .645 W% over the last 3 years. Very few pitchers in the history of the game match that.

[Ennder]

Over the past 3 years Oswalt has the 2nd most wins in all of baseball and Sheets has been hurt part of all 3 years. So yeah I'm not too surprised they don't compare. Oswalt also had possibly the best defensive SS in the last 100 years playing behind him (yes many think Everett is better than Ozzie was). Oswalt is a great pitcher, that doesn't mean Sheets isn't because he cannot match a .645 W% over the last 3 years. Very few pitchers in the history of the game match that.

[hauser42]

Ben Sheets lack of durability kills him when you look at him and other top pitchers over the last 3 seasons. He has a ton of great other stas out there that gets pointed out by his backers.

 

Like I said wins have to be part of the process when looking at how good a pitcher is, along with other stats that have been to the forefront lately.

[hauser42]

Ben Sheets lack of durability kills him when you look at him and other top pitchers over the last 3 seasons. He has a ton of great other stas out there that gets pointed out by his backers.

 

Like I said wins have to be part of the process when looking at how good a pitcher is, along with other stats that have been to the forefront lately.

[hauser42]

Ben Sheets lack of durability kills him when you look at him and other top pitchers over the last 3 seasons. He has a ton of great other stas out there that gets pointed out by his backers.

 

Like I said wins have to be part of the process when looking at how good a pitcher is, along with other stats that have been to the forefront lately.

[ozzybourne]

who will make more money--a pitcher with who averages 16 wins 3 years in a row or a pitcher who averages 9? the wins stat is important to MLB executives who determine pay, the same guys who run arbitration. so you're saying it is not important in determining the validity of w/l records? and big contracts after career years that included a big win total? yes gm's will pay for talent, but sheets will make a lot more money next year if he wins 18 games instead of 10.

[ozzybourne]

who will make more money--a pitcher with who averages 16 wins 3 years in a row or a pitcher who averages 9? the wins stat is important to MLB executives who determine pay, the same guys who run arbitration. so you're saying it is not important in determining the validity of w/l records? and big contracts after career years that included a big win total? yes gm's will pay for talent, but sheets will make a lot more money next year if he wins 18 games instead of 10.

[ozzybourne]

who will make more money--a pitcher with who averages 16 wins 3 years in a row or a pitcher who averages 9? the wins stat is important to MLB executives who determine pay, the same guys who run arbitration. so you're saying it is not important in determining the validity of w/l records? and big contracts after career years that included a big win total? yes gm's will pay for talent, but sheets will make a lot more money next year if he wins 18 games instead of 10.

[Ennder]

I dunno, if you ask me to write a paper comparing two pitchers and decide which is the better guy W's are about the 10th or 11th thing I'd talk about. Yeah they are a stat but just not a big one for me.

 

GM's do all kind of dumb things, using that as an excuse for Ws being a good stat just isn't a good argument(see Zito, Barry). I'm sure players who have won gold gloves make more each year even when they shouldn't have won them. Doesn't make it right.

 

I certainly wouldn't go after a Zito, Garland type because they are a 'proven winner'. They played on good teams and got wins but the other stats are just more important for judging how good they actually are or will be in the future and that is what I'm concerned with.

[Ennder]

I dunno, if you ask me to write a paper comparing two pitchers and decide which is the better guy W's are about the 10th or 11th thing I'd talk about. Yeah they are a stat but just not a big one for me.

 

GM's do all kind of dumb things, using that as an excuse for Ws being a good stat just isn't a good argument(see Zito, Barry). I'm sure players who have won gold gloves make more each year even when they shouldn't have won them. Doesn't make it right.

 

I certainly wouldn't go after a Zito, Garland type because they are a 'proven winner'. They played on good teams and got wins but the other stats are just more important for judging how good they actually are or will be in the future and that is what I'm concerned with.

[Ennder]

I dunno, if you ask me to write a paper comparing two pitchers and decide which is the better guy W's are about the 10th or 11th thing I'd talk about. Yeah they are a stat but just not a big one for me.

 

GM's do all kind of dumb things, using that as an excuse for Ws being a good stat just isn't a good argument(see Zito, Barry). I'm sure players who have won gold gloves make more each year even when they shouldn't have won them. Doesn't make it right.

 

I certainly wouldn't go after a Zito, Garland type because they are a 'proven winner'. They played on good teams and got wins but the other stats are just more important for judging how good they actually are or will be in the future and that is what I'm concerned with.