Harris is so fired after this year

[Boy Jeenius]

I stopped following the Bucks when Herb Kohl fired Don Nelson. He tries really hard to be a good owner, but, fact is, he sucks. Virtually every decision he has made ends up turning out sour. I almost came back to the Bucks when George Karl was coach, but when Kohl gave Karl power, that huge contract and let him make that stupid Gary Payton trade, I knew I would never watch a Bucks game again until the Senator was gone. Too bad because he was responsible for the Bucks staying in Milwaukee - a very good thing. But the product has never been anything but very substandard.

[patrickgpe]

personally i would of done this one...

 

Also, a league source told The News that the Bucks' owner, Milwaukee Sen. Herb Kohl, yesterday rejected a trade that would have sent Randolph and either Fred Jones or Jared Jeffries to Milwaukee for a package including Bobby Simmons, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric, who all have long-term contracts. -- New York Daily News

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2ffeatures%2frumors

[Hammer]

Herb really needs to sell the team if he rejected that trade. What a crock of GARBAGE! Why is there even a GM on the payroll? Now I know why I was ready to stop watching the Bucks for good...

[foamboy1]

Also, a league source told The News that the Bucks' owner, Milwaukee Sen. Herb Kohl, yesterday rejected a trade that would have sent Randolph and either Fred Jones or Jared Jeffries to Milwaukee for a package including Bobby Simmons, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric, who all have long-term contracts. -- New York Daily News

 

I cannot believe we rejected that trade. We move three bad contracts and non-factors for Randolph...he has questionable character but is better than all three of our bad contracts combined. It's hard to overcome bad ownership...this is a top-down issue.

[Crew2323]

I agree. That proposed trade should have been accepted in a heartbeat. You get rid of an ridiculously overpaid and worthless Gadzuric, an overpaid Bobby Simmons, and a player in Charlie Bell who doesn't want to be here in the first place, for a solid big in Randolph who, granted has some off-the-court issues and a large contract along with Fred Jones? What am I missing from the Bucks perspective? Unreal...

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Randolph's contract was dubbed one of the most untradeable in the league before he went to New York. I don't think it's much more tradeable now.

[trwi7]

Randolph's contract was dubbed one of the most untradeable in the league before he went to New York. I don't think it's much more tradeable now.

 

And we would've gotten the third most untradeable contract in the league for #1 (Gadzuric) and #2 (Simmons)

[Time for a Miller]

In hindsight the Bucks should have taken Chris Paul, but that was not even considered as a possibility. It was a choice between Bogut and Marvin Williams out of UNC. I still think the Bucks made the right choice. It wasn't a draft out of need, since nobody considered Chris Paul as a top two pick.

[RockCoCougars]

I agree. In hindsight, it's easy to say they should have taken Paul, but he wasn't projected as a realistic top 2 pick at the time. Is was either Bogut or Williams, and I'm glad they took Bogut. I expected Bogut to be a Brad Daugherty type player at the time, and he's really only played slightly below the expectations that I had for him. He's improved quite a bit this season.

[Weirdos19]

I'm actually very happy the Bucks went with Bogut over Williams. Bogut has gotten to be a pretty good center and there isn't many of those around.

 

I don't get why Kohl would veto that Randolph trade. Simmons, Bell, and Gadzuric are owed a ton of money. Isn't that what Kohl wants? To get rid of big contracts and improve talent. Randolph is the best player in that trade. Jeffries might be second best.

 

Cannot believe he vetoed that. Wow.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Kohl has evidently decided that Harris is done here and he's not going to saddle the next GM with any of Harris' moves.

 

He won't let the new GM make his own moves, either, so I'm not sure what difference it will make.

[Roscoe Chill]

Nobody considered Chris Paul a top two pick? I distinctly remember Paul mentioned in every single discussion about who the Bucks should take at #1. Now, he was mentioned in every discussion, but you're right the Bucks had wittled it down to Bogut and Williams very early on...because they had TJ Ford.

 

Again, I had no problem with the Bucks going with Bogut at all. But I'm not an NBA GM either. And again, I remember many people saying Paul was the best player in the draft. So, eliminating him because of his position in regards to where he would fit on the Bucks is one thing. But don't say NO ONE considered him a top two pick. Sure hindsight shows that he WAS the best player in that draft, but some people didn't need hindsight to call it out before the draft, a lot of people. And no, I am not claiming I wanted the Bucks to pick Paul. I wanted Bogut.

 

Atlanta was the team that really screwed up though. They needed a point guard and passed on Paul as well as Deron Williams.

[danzig6767]

NDOG44 wrote:

 

Atlanta was the team that really screwed up though. They needed a point guard and passed on Paul as well as Deron Williams.

 

That was one of the more baffling draft choices i can remember

They were loaded with forwards, but had zero point guards. The draft has two premium PG's coming out and instead the Hawks draft a third SF for their team.

 

 

 

 

[Mr QL]

I remember Chris Paul being considered a possible top pick but that was before Bogut became NPOTY IIRC. He never was seriously considered after that. Bogut was the consensus top pick with some people making an argument for Marvin based on his "potential" which Atlanta declared taking whoever we didn't. I don't really think any other team would of picked differently than we did.

[PeaveyFury]

I remember Chris Paul being considered a possible top pick but that was before Bogut became NPOTY IIRC. He never was seriously considered after that.

 

That's how I remembered it as well, FWIW. There was considerable discussion about Bogut or Williams, but Paul wasn't mentioned much.

[burnzy24]

Bill Simmons agrees that Larry Harris will soon be done and wants to have his job. Simmons Article See trade 3A.

I know he is more than likely joking, but I wish he would really get it

[Oldcity]

I'd just like to say that if Simmons became the Bucks' GM I would become a full-fledged Bucks fan again. Partly because I'd be extremely curious, and partly because I actually think there's a chance he'd be a good GM.

[twobrewers]

You can't assume Harris is bad though. That's the point I'm trying to make. Nobody knows how good or bad Harris is because he's not allowed to make deals he wants to make because of Kohl.

A few years back, Dan Gadzuric was a restricted free agent. The Bucks wanted to keep him. Being a restricted free agent means that he is free to negotiate with any teams - but that Milwaukee would have the right to match that offer.

 

We had a similar situation with Charlie Bell this year. No one really wanted to "negotiate" with him, since they suspected the Bucks would just match the offer. In the end, Miami gave Bell a pretty decent offer - and the Bucks choose to match it. In essense, we got Charlie Bell for exactly market value.

 

The problem is, that years ago when we had this situation with Gadzuric, Larry Harris offered him 6 years and 36 million dollars! We could have just waited and matched any offer. We had no risk of losing him. Instead Larry went way beyond market value and handicapped the Bucks with a horrible contract. That is why Larry Harris is a bad GM.

 

Regarding the Zach Randolph trade. They were right to pass, in my opinion. Firing Larry now does no good. The same with Coach K. The entire thing needs to be blown up. You have to hire a new GM and a new coach after the year. (Take your time and hire quality this time) There is no reason to take on any more problems/cancers trying for a quick fix.

 

At this point, I think the best case scenario for the Bucks is trading Redd, Simmons and Gadzuric for nothing in return just to clean the books. (Obviously, you have to throw in Redd to get someone to take Simmons and Gadzuric)

 

Lastly, Bogut is a pretty good player. At the time the real choice was between him or Marvin Williams. I think Bogut has been better thus far. Of course, at the time I wanted Deron Williams.

[recte44]

Instead of Bogut we could have taken Chris Paul, but Mo Williams presence prevented that. Whoops.

[aracko]

"At this point, I think the best case scenario for the Bucks is trading Redd, Simmons and Gadzuric for nothing in return just to clean the books. (Obviously, you have to throw in Redd to get someone to take Simmons and Gadzuric) "

 

 

Good idea in theory but the NBA does not allow these situations to take place. You need to be like within 90% of the money that you trade somehow (I BELIEVE). The best we could do is take an expiring contact for these guys, and the chance to do that was at this trade deadline.

 

It takes more than a year to turn a team around in the NBA. It is very significant to notice that Kohl now has a Lawyer at the top of his list to approve Larry Harris moves. I dont think its that he doesnt trust Larry Harris, I think its that he is trying to make the team as good of a sale as possible.

[twobrewers]

Instead of Bogut we could have taken Chris Paul, but Mo Williams presence prevented that. Whoops.

Actually, I believe TJ Ford prevented that.

 

At the time we did have TJ, before his injury, and Mo.

 

So we were stocked with two adaquate point guards. Of course, adding 1 great point gaurd would have ended up better. But it really is hard to blame them for passing on the point guards when we had no center and two point guards at the time.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Simmons will apparently be on with Homer this evening around 5:40.

[trwi7]

You can't assume Harris is bad though. That's the point I'm trying to make. Nobody knows how good or bad Harris is because he's not allowed to make deals he wants to make because of Kohl.

A few years back, Dan Gadzuric was a restricted free agent. The Bucks wanted to keep him. Being a restricted free agent means that he is free to negotiate with any teams - but that Milwaukee would have the right to match that offer.

 

We had a similar situation with Charlie Bell this year. No one really wanted to "negotiate" with him, since they suspected the Bucks would just match the offer. In the end, Miami gave Bell a pretty decent offer - and the Bucks choose to match it. In essense, we got Charlie Bell for exactly market value.

 

The problem is, that years ago when we had this situation with Gadzuric, Larry Harris offered him 6 years and 36 million dollars! We could have just waited and matched any offer. We had no risk of losing him. Instead Larry went way beyond market value and handicapped the Bucks with a horrible contract. That is why Larry Harris is a bad GM.

Okay we don't know if Harris is the one who actually offered Gadzuric 6 years $36 million. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Kohl, Walter, Burr all of them basically make the decisions on what players we acquire etc. I don't think I can be any more clear than that.

 

The only reason Kohl has a GM is deflect blame onto him when Kohl himself, Ron Walter and Mike Burr should be taking it.

 

I'm not saying Harris hasn't made mistakes, he has, even the best GM's do. However, I challenge you to find one GM in the NBA who has his hands as tied as Harris does.

[twobrewers]

Okay we don't know if Harris is the one who actually offered Gadzuric 6 years $36 million. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

That may be a fair point. And obviously, we have no proof either way.

 

But at least, isn't it Harris' job to explain why signing Gadzuric for 6 years and 36 million was a bad idea? I mean, even if the "big shots" mandate that we sign him - Harris still could have explained that we would just wait until he got an offer and then matched it.

 

My point is, everyone has bosses who interfere and oversee them to some extent. Part of his job is to convince Herb and whoever what course of action to take.