Harris is so fired after this year

[patrickgpe]

all right this is supposed to be an espn insider article but i am not a subsciber and the link works so i think i can post it.

 

According to several NBA execs, the Bucks are believed to be one of only two teams in the NBA that negotiate trades, contracts, etc. by committee. The other is the Los Angeles Clippers. Need more be said?

Additionally, NBA folks have told me in recent weeks that Bucks GM Larry Harris has been actively trying to swing a deal and that at least two of his proposed deals, including one involving New York Knicks power forward Zach Randolph, had been nixed by his superiors.

The scuttlebutt circulating the NBA is that Herb Kohl is letting Harris, a lame-duck GM in the final year of his contract, hang out to dry, that Kohl is content to let Harris' successor commence with the reconstruction of the team this summer

link

 

while i would like to see some changes if herb is going to blow things up this summer you might as well not let him trade Redd or anyone else for that matter.

[trwi7]

The Bucks won't be good until Kohl is no longer owning the team.

[bullox]

Kohl was the owner when Grunfeld and Karl led the Bucks to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2001. While I agree in principle that Kohl is a problem, it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

[trwi7]

Kohl was the owner when Grunfeld and Karl led the Bucks to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2001. While I agree in principle that Kohl is a problem, it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

 

Karl also had full control of that team. After the breaking up of that team and the firing of Karl Kohl doesn't want to give up full control anymore so he makes a lot of decisions. Harris has had several trades on the table to improve the Bucks but Kohl has declined them all because of money, Kohl just doesn't care anymore and it's disgusting to see.

 

Honestly all you have to do is look at the record since Kohl bought the team. What have they done? He bought the team when they were contenders and since the 1990/1991 season the Bucks have a record of 570-763 6 out of 16 seasons and soon to be 17. They have only made it out of the first round one time since the 1988/1989 season. They can't even make the playoffs in half of their seasons when over half the teams in the league make the playoffs.

 

What Kohl needs to do is hire a GM, set a budget for that GM and let the GM make the basketball decisions. Not Ron Walter, not Mike Burr not anybody else.

[samwise]

"What Kohl needs to do is hire a GM, set a budget for that GM and let the GM make the basketball decisions. Not Ron Walter, not Mike Burr not anybody else"

 

I could not agree with this more. Kohl can be a good owner he just needs a good GM (with a goal) to make the basketball decisions. There have been some major missteps in the last few years that have put this franchise in a bad spot. But beneath the surface of underachievers and over-payed players there is some decent young talent. With a new GM and regime the Bucks could be successful.

[trwi7]

Kohl can be a good owner he just needs a good GM (with a goal) to make the basketball decisions.

 

Here's the thing though. Kohl is the one who makes the basketball decisions after consulting with the stooges that he listens to (Ron Walter, Mike Burr among others.) Harris has had two trades on the table that he wanted to make Boozer for Magloire and Mo but Kohl didn't want that because Boozer makes a lot of money and was coming off an injury plagued year and then this summer Marion for Simmons and the 6th pick. Are you saying the Bucks wouldn't be better if either one of those trades would have gone down?

 

You're doing exactly what Kohl wants you to do. Think the GM is crappy so he needs to be fired. Think the coach is crappy so he needs to be fired. We've been through how many coaches and GM's in Kohl's tenure and nothing changes. The one constant throughtout his tenure is himself. That's where the blame should be placed.

 

Kohl is living off the I kept the team in Milwaukee thing for far too long. Either hire people that can make the decisions without interference or sell the team.

[patrickgpe]

problem is i am worried the next gm is just as bad, remember he tried to hire doug collins a few years ago and make him president. the only time we were good was when we had a strong coach and gm and were allowed to make their own business decisions.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Collins will want no part of this mess.

 

My prediction: Kohl will refuse to eat Coach K's contract and will end up hiring some assistant front office guy from another team who agrees to Kohl's terms only because he's eager to get a GM position on his resume.

 

Futility continues.

[trwi7]

problem is i am worried the next gm is just as bad

You can't assume Harris is bad though. That's the point I'm trying to make. Nobody knows how good or bad Harris is because he's not allowed to make deals he wants to make because of Kohl.

[JJHardy7]

You can't assume Harris is bad though. That's the point I'm trying to make. Nobody knows how good or bad Harris is because he's not allowed to make deals he wants to make because of Kohl.

 

I actually don't think Harris is that bad of a GM. I do believe the Bucks are still a pretty darn talented team, but they're too one dimensional. I think Bogut needs the ball every trip down the court and we need to run the offense through him. I think a lot of us (by us I mean Bucks fans) had some hope this year because Coach K did well in his small stint last year. It's looking more and more like that wasn't reality and the Bucks may have just played better because they just needed a change -- Coach K isn't the answer...he's part of the problem.

[endaround]

Kohl is a terrible owner because they got Bogut as a number 1 pick instead of James. Obviously thats Kohl's fault for not being lucky in the right year!

[trwi7]

Kohl is a terrible owner because they got Bogut as a number 1 pick instead of James. Obviously thats Kohl's fault for not being lucky in the right year!

 

If you don't know anything about the situation then it would probably be best if you read up about it or don't respond in a sarcastic manner.

[Roscoe Chill]

Yeah, that's a tad silly endaround. I liked the Bogut pick, but it was obviously the wrong pick as Chris Paul should have been the guy.

[brettac1]

In hindsight, yeah, but I think most people would say that you take the Center there just due to the scarcity at the position.

[endaround]

The point is that the NBA ism a crap shoot when it comes to talent. San Antonio is a powerhouse due to having Robinson followed by Duncan. Did they have some special insight? No, they got really lucky. Fact is the two times the Bucks had the number 1 overall there wasn't the superstar waiting for them. Kidd over Robinson probably would make sense in hindsight, but its not like Kidd hasn't worn out his welcome more than once. The difference between cleveland and the Bucks is that the Cavaliers have James. Was there some special gift for finding talent? No, they got lucky and the NBA was still allowing high schoolers in. Yes you can screw up with great players (say you're Minnesota), but luck has much more to do with winning in the NBA than people are willing to admit.

[trwi7]

And when you have the oppurtunity to get all-star talent (like the Bucks have which were both shot down by Kohl which you have skipped over in both of your posts) you take that talent especially when you're not giving up the same talent in return.

 

Are you telling me this team wouldn't be better off if Kohl would've allowed Harris to trade for Boozer or Marion?

 

You're saying a lineup of Ford/Redd/Simmons/Boozer/Bogut or Williams/Redd/Marion/Villanueva/Bogut isn't better than what we have now? Kohl has had oppurtunities, he has declined those oppurtunities, it is his fault when he is the one who makes decisions.

 

Now we are just beginning to find out that Kohl dictates who gets playing time, we are finding out that Kohl picks team captains yet Kohl gets off scott free from the fans and the media who decline to report on this.

[JJHardy7]

Yeah, that's a tad silly endaround. I liked the Bogut pick, but it was obviously the wrong pick as Chris Paul should have been the guy.

 

I don't think based on the Bucks roster it was the wrong pick. I don't think Bogut is being used right and there are reports out that he's one of the most underrated players in the league. I wouldn't give up on Bogut just yet.

[danzig6767]

Yeah, that's a tad silly endaround. I liked the Bogut pick, but it was obviously the wrong pick as Chris Paul should have been the guy.

 

I don't think based on the Bucks roster it was the wrong pick. I don't think Bogut is being used right and there are reports out that he's one of the most underrated players in the league. I wouldn't give up on Bogut just yet.

I understand why the Bucks chose Bogut at the time. They had no center and had both TJ/Mo, but in retrospect i can't see how anyone would rather have Bogut than Paul. In the vast majority of cases, good NBA teams are driven by an elite player, Paul is in that level. Without an elite players, the deck is stacked strongly against any team.

 

[billyhallfan]

i don't follow the nba or bucks, and I'm not trying to hijack, but just want to ask a question that I'm sure you guys know.

 

There was talk last year about how the Bucks' contract on the Bradley Center is running up and if they don't build a new arena, they will be out of town. Is this true, was it just a rumor, did they get a new contract, what is the timeline?

 

thanks.

[Roscoe Chill]

Yeah, I'm in agreement with danzig. As I said, I liked the Bogut pick. BUT...there was A LOT of talk at the time about how they shouldn't pass on Paul regardless of who was on the roster. And it turns out they shouldn't have passed on Paul. I'm not giving up on Bogut, but Paul is a superstar point guard. It could have been worse, they could have drafted Marvin Williams, but they kind of dismissed Paul right from the get go and it was between Bogut and Williams. Is that luck? Or is it just making the wrong decision? Paul isn't in the same class as Lebron James, but who besides Kobe is? Paul is one of the best players in the NBA right now, worthy of the #1 overall pick. Bogut just hasn't been so far. And again, I liked the pick.

 

EDIT: Hell, even Deron Williams is #1 overall worthy from that draft.

[LouisEly]

And when you have the oppurtunity to get all-star talent (like the Bucks have which were both shot down by Kohl which you have skipped over in both of your posts) you take that talent especially when you're not giving up the same talent in return.

 

Here's the thing - would Boozer and Marion be guys who want to be here? Or would they be Gary Payton and complain to get traded. IIRC Marion hasn't been happy in Phoenix... and if he isn't happy in Phoenix contending for championships, how happy will he be in Milwaukee?

 

The killers were how they regressed from Ray Allen to... ???, and the real killer was Dirk Nowitzki (and IIRC Pat Garrity) for Robert "Tractor" Traylor.

 

As for the draft, I don't think the difference between Paul and Bogut offsets the fact that they got the best player in the 2000 draft, Michael Redd, in the 2nd round. All things being equal they've done fairly well with their first round picks. Haislip was a bust, but so was just about everyone after him except Tahshaun Prince. Ford turned out better than everyone picked after him except for David West, Josh Howard, and maybe Barbosa. The pick they gave away in 2006 ended up not hurting them (Cedric Simmons, picked at that slot, has been a bust and only a couple after him are a household name). And we'll see about Yi, but he hasn't been bad.

[JJHardy7]

I understand why the Bucks chose Bogut at the time. They had no center and had both TJ/Mo, but in retrospect i can't see how anyone would rather have Bogut than Paul. In the vast majority of cases, good NBA teams are driven by an elite player, Paul is in that level. Without an elite players, the deck is stacked strongly against any team.

 

I agree with this. I think the one thing in the NBA is that teams don't always draft the best overall player since only 5 players can play at once. A rookie can make a big impact from day one in the NBA and with TJ & Mo they'd have 3 starter caliber PGs. Paul is a very good player and I have nothing against him. I just still wonder if Bogut is really being used the right way. I do think he can be a 20 point 10 board guy night in and night out, but it just seems he doesn't fit anything we have ran on the offensive end.

 

I'm starting to think that Michael Redd (I think he's a great player and I've been a big fan) may need to leave Milwaukee for the Bucks to improve. I think getting pack some picks and a nice young talent for him, getting rid of Gadzuric's contract, rid of Simmons' contract, and get a new proven coach may get this team in the right direction.

 

I think the next few years will be huge in terms of whether Milwaukee keeps its NBA team. The Celtics are very talented, but they have 3 players who aren't getting younger and are looking to make a run in the next few years, the Pistons are getting older, and besides that I really think the East is up for grabs. Orlando looks like a team that may have some staying power, but the Bucks are going to have the opportunity to make a run at one of the top 4 seeds in the next few years. They're young and talented now they just have to make some smart moves and get this thing figured out. I really miss the electricity around the team from the year they made the Eastern Conference Finals.

[jaybird2001wi]

The Racine Journal-Times' Gery Woelfel's newest column rips on the Bucks for lack of moves prior to the trade deadline. I believe ESPN may have copied their story from Woelfel's column because his column has an uncanny resemblence to the ESPN link.

 

Here are the uglier points Woelfel has mentioned in the column that makes the Bucks season look really horrendous:

 

+ The Bucks have lost four straight, seven of their last eight and 14 of 18.

+ The Bucks lost to an average Toronto team by 31 points.

+ They lost to a below-average Philadelphia team by 43 points.

+ They lost not once but twice to the putrid New York Knicks - and, on both occasions, they squandered 17-point leads.

+ They were absolutely annihilated in their two games against the Detroit Pistons: 114-69 (that's a 45-point spanking) and 117-91 (a "mere'' 26-point thrashing).

 

His column clearly cites that Herb Kohl has WAY too much control over even the on-the-court operations, which is deeply concerning.

 

Several players and other Bucks' personnel contend it wasn't Krystkowiak's decision to abandon the triangle (offense). In their minds, he was instructed to change the offense and that the mandate came from Bucks owner Herb Kohl.

There is also some locker room disagreements that has turned the team upside down, which means that Coach K and his staff have completely lost control of the team:

 

There are also profound issues with the coaches and players. Sparks have flown in the locker room on a couple occasions this season, including a heated, post-game exchange between point guard Mo Williams and assistant coach Tony Brown.

I knew this situation was going to happen. No one knows their roles on the team and pretty much everyone from top to bottom of the organization deserves the blame. Kohl has completely annihilated this team and Harris pretty much does not know what to do as a result and it has trickled down to the coach and players. This team needs a major overhaul from top to bottom. Woelfel pointed this out:

There have been some other not-so-pleasant 'debates'' between the players and coaches. Even with the season more than half way over, issues pertaining to playing-time, rotations and the type of offense that should be run - whether it should be centered around Bogut, an exceptional passer for a big man, or it should be predicated on the perimeter shooting of Redd and Williams - have inexcusably yet to be resolved.

The players have essentially quit on Krystkowiak: How the offense should be run, and the uncertainty regarding those other issues, have prompted some players to privately question Krystkowiak. They wonder whether he is simply too inexperienced for the situation.

With all of the points Woelfel has made, why in the world did Kohl allow all of this to happen when pretty much it was totally inevitable from even last summer? This team has too many me-first shooters and players who can't play defense. I was skeptical when they immediately made Krystkowiak as the permanent head coach and was even more skeptical as to why Kohl decided to hire Larry Harris as GM, when he did not have any legitimate front office experience.

It is almost like Kohl was looking for a bunch of puppets to play with and it has exploded in his face. Kohl should hire a more experienced GM and allow him to make moves and keep his hands off the team completely. It is just plain awful.

 

[homer]

The point is that the NBA ism a crap shoot when it comes to talent. San Antonio is a powerhouse due to having Robinson followed by Duncan. Did they have some special insight? No, they got really lucky. Fact is the two times the Bucks had the number 1 overall there wasn't the superstar waiting for them. Kidd over Robinson probably would make sense in hindsight, but its not like Kidd hasn't worn out his welcome more than once.

So when did the Spurs draft Ginobli and Parker? How many guys on Detroit's team in '04 were drafted by the Pistons and not acquired via trade or free agency?

[trwi7]

Here's the thing - would Boozer and Marion be guys who want to be here? Or would they be Gary Payton and complain to get traded. IIRC Marion hasn't been happy in Phoenix... and if he isn't happy in Phoenix contending for championships, how happy will he be in Milwaukee?

It doesn't matter if they want to be here. They really don't have a choice. Boozer chose friggin' Utah because they offered more money than anybody else, Marion was behind Nash and Stoudemire, he probably would've been happy being the best player on this team. This is exactly something Herb Kohl would say, especially in Marion's case since he has an opt-out clause after this year. It would be something like "Well what if he leaves after this year?" Sometimes you have to take risks.

Look at what the Pistons did. They signed and traded their best player, Grant Hill to Orlando for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace, they traded Jerry Stackhouse and others for Rip Hamilton, they signed Chauncey Billups, they drafted Tayshaun Prince with the 23rd pick in the 2002 NBA draft and then made a deadline deal to get Rasheed Wallace from the Hawks for bench players and picks.