pet store vs. dog breeders (Update, puppy is home)

[1992casey]

This isn't emphasized often, but I've heard that being able to see the puppies' father can sometimes be considered a yellow flag. If the father is on site, it could be taken as an indicator that the 'breeder' didn't put much effort into choosing a sire for the pups.

[Thurston Fluff]

I understand there's many more good than bad stories as for rescues and humane society animals, I do. I simply have to say that I've been down that path, and don't want to do it again. I have kids, and I have very young nieces that come over. I could choose to not have a dog, and we initially thought to wait at least a few years, but we've all talked and everyone would like to have another dog around the house.

 

This makes a lot of sense about your considerations for where to get a dog. You are so correct in not going the resuce route with kids around. Pound dogs have a little better screening process for temperment but as others have said there are differant levels of competence. Just curious do you have an idea of what breed you're looking at yet?

 

This isn't emphasized often, but I've heard that being able to see the puppies' father can sometimes be considered a yellow flag. If the father is on site, it could be taken as an indicator that the 'breeder' didn't put much effort into choosing a sire for the pups.

 

I've heard that too. I know it can be but not so sure I agree it always is. I think it depends on what purpose the breeder has in being a breeder. Some people breed working dogs. They use their dogs for more than just puppy production. One breeder I know finds a dog that matches a dog he already has buys it then uses both dogs in the field as well as breeding partners. I think it can be a bad omen if the person is just breeding for sale of if they are simply show dogs. Personally I like breeders who breed for working purposes not just for selling. They seem to look for personality characteristics over physical ones. Much the better way to get good purebreds IMO.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Just curious do you have an idea of what breed you're looking at yet?

 

Actually, yes. We looked at a Shiba at the pet store, and are considering finding a breeder as well.

 

They're a perfect fit for what we're looking for in a dog. I've talked to a few owners, I've read about them on the web, so on and so forth. I'm not "locked in" to getting that type of dog, but they fit the profile of what we're looking for.

[aracko]

Getting a dog from a pet store or puppy Mill - i understand why people say dont do it. They say these animals are being raised only for the money and that they are often kept in harsh conditions.

 

Id agree with that, but the issue I have with this is the Puppy mills and pet stoers are not going anywhere. Get a pet from the Petstore but make them offers - dont pay their price outright - this will help to decrease their profits a bit. Granted the Puppy stores might be unhumaine but getting these puppies out of those horrible conditions is a huge favor to that animal.

 

I dont want to compare kids and puppies - but its similar to adopting a child from a 3rd world country in a way. I think thats quite honorable.

[Thurston Fluff]

Great choice Sheba's are great. They are kind of like mini Akita's. I've got an akita and have a freind who has a Sheba Inu. Our first Akita was originally a pet shop dog though we got ours from the neighbor who had it tied to a tree for about a year before we convinced him to sell it to us. Take some time to find a breeder though. They can have skin problems like the Akitas do. They are independant though. With a sheba or akita it's best to get them young. Since they are a fairly independant type dog the yonuger they start learning their role in the household the better. Don't expect them to play catch for more than 8 throws or play for hours on end. They tend to have short attention spans but learn quickly and do very well obedience wise. Be careful though as they are not usually great with other dogs or pets. Especially of the same sex. If you get a pup they should be ok with others it grew up with but tend to view animals outside of it's group as toys for it's amuzement. If it's going to be an only child it's best. Great with kids from what I've seen. So is the Akita which is more or less the giant version of the sheba.

Sorry for rambleing. I love dogs and you hit one of my favorites.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's always good to hear from other owners, so that's cool. I don't have to worry about the "other pets" angle, as the only pet we currently have is a tortoise, and I think most people don't even realize he's alive.

[TooLiveBrew]

RoCo - I'm so sorry to hear about your loss - but as you said, it was just time. There's no joy in watching your long-time friend reach the end of his/her life except for taking comfort in knowing that you helped him/her have as good a life as possible... especially at 'the end.' *gets lump in throat as he types*

 

 

While telling this to someone at the Humane Society, she implored me to not buy the dog from a pet store and instead find a reputable breeder. She told me that many dogs in pet stores come from puppy mills that not only keep their dogs in terrible conditions, she said the majority of problem dogs they take in were dogs bought from pet stores that likely were born in a puppy mill and sold cheap to a pet store.

 

Glad to hear you've already gotten so much good advice - such as this - about being wary of pet stores (& heck, just in general).

 

I ended up paying 450 for Tyson along with 150 to fly him from South Dakota to Milwaukee.

 

Tyson! I remember the little guy. How's he doing?

 

 

I got my cat from the humane society and it rules. Sure, the first 6 months she meowed non stop but I got a cat that plays catch, and fetch plus likes to be dressed up in ridiculous clothes.

 

You now appear to possess arguably the coolest cat in the history of cats.

 

 

The older Springer was an abused dog, and she had some pretty big issues when we got her. She didn't trust anyone and was pretty aggressive at first. She also had/has the propensity to bully smaller dogs. She especially doesn't like little dogs that bark at her. However, we've had her for about two years now, and she has become a terrific dog. She's a little high-strung and is stubborn at times, but is also a lot of fun to have around. She still has a few quirks, like the small dog thing, but overall she's great.

 

We bought the pup from a breeder about a year ago, and he's been excellent ever since we got him. Was already potty trained and knew basic commands. He's a very mellow dog that loves to play.

 

A springer - high strung? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif On that note Ralphie, your description of your other springer as "mellow" makes it quite clear to everyone that your second dog is, in fact, imaginary. Seriously, you guys got really lucky to get a mellow springer! Enjoy that. I absolutely love this breed, as my only two family dogs have both been English Springer Spaniels.

 

 

In conclusion, I opt for a moment of silence for RoCo's friend... a great companion who will be missed.

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[1992casey]

Tyson! I remember the little guy.

 

Here's his picture:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/danzig6767/DOGGGGGYYYMay18069.jpg

[TooLiveBrew]

Too bad he's not cute.

[danzig6767]

Hey RoCo, not sure if you want to go this route, but here is a link to many Shiba's for sale

 

shiba pups

 

As for Tyson, he's doing well except for one issue i can't break with him. I read that his breed is wary of strangers and it's the case with him. I live in an apartment with a large patio door which has lots of people walking by all the time and he barks at nearly every one of them if i'm not in the room to keep him quiet.

[dadofandrew]

I think the child adoption/humane society comparison is very common sensical. I would also say needing a specific breed or gender is the same as looking only for a blue-eyed, blond haired girl to adopt. I do not understand why it matters for either, but some insist.

 

I would assume it's about $150-200 to adopt from a shelter, as it was $110-130 or so for Ronnie 8 years ago. I am also all but positive they will either waive that, set up payments, or reduce it if you can provide a good home for an unwanted dog.

[1992casey]

If you're adopting a puppy, breed is probably about the most reliable way to predict temperament and size. Because I'd likely be looking for an adult, size ought to take care of itself. I'd probably be able to tell quite a bit about temperament, too, but I don't know that I'd be able to screen for every situation I'd be likely to expose him/her to.

 

For instance, one thing I don't want is a dog that's so owner-centric that I have to be concerned about how he does in crowds. I read up on a German Pinscher. Size is perfect & their coats are easy to maintain. (The coat thing is a bonus, but not required.) However, they didn't seem to be the best choice for situations where they'd be meeting other people along with their dogs and maybe their cats.

 

danzig6767, is Tyson barking because strangers upset him or does he simply want to be part of the action? My dog barked at almost everyone, but all he really wanted was to be outside with them. If he was outdoors, he rarely barked at all.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I would also say needing a specific breed or gender is the same as looking only for a blue-eyed, blond haired girl to adopt. I do not understand why it matters for either, but some insist.

I want a small(er) dog. I would like a dog with a good temperament and an ability to be around children. I want a dog that trains somewhat easy. I want a dog that has a sense of self cleanliness, that doesn't let itself get caked in crap. I want a dog that doesn't bark at every shadow or noise.

 

The dogs I'm looking at have all these things, to some degree or another.

 

These traits differ in dogs. Obviously you can get a dog from a breed that's good with kids, and it's mean. You can get a dog from a breed that's tough to train, and get one that trains in a week. Obviously there's exceptions to every rule, but there's nothing wrong with playing the percentages.

 

If you go the rescue or shelter route, I applaud you, I don't deride that decision at all. However, I don't really understand the scorn that's coming on this issue, to be completely honest.

 

And I'm sorry, in my humble opinion, getting a pet is nothing at all like having a baby or adopting a human child.

[JJHardy7]

And no, I will not be getting a dog from the humane society. I've went that route twice before, with disastrous results both times.

 

I don't know exactly what the rescues are like in Wisconsin, but in Tennessee the rescue programs for puppies/dogs is pretty impressive. They put a lot of time and money (donations) into taking care of the dogs. Both of our lab mixed puppies (we got them at 2 months and 3 months old) have worked out really, really well. I know from the programs we got them from they were in good homes and these rescue programs grabbed them out of the county pounds when they arrived in order to save them and all that stuff. I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. My wife and I wanted labs and we were able to get mixes which we were happy with.

[razzzorsharp]

When the wife and I were looking for a dog, we had our specifications in mind (not much shedding, not allergenic, clean, and mid-size). We decided that a basenji, a rare African breed, was the way to go for us.

 

We wanted to go through a breeder but these types of dogs only breed during certain parts of the year and since I had an itchy trigger finger and wanted a dog right away, we looked into the Humane Society. Nothing in Wisconsin peeked our interest but we found what we were looking for in Iowa (keep in mind, we are in the middle of the state). We called and asked if she was available. They said yes, we drove four hours, spent 20 minutes there, and then took her home. We have had her for a year and everything is swell.

 

I guess the point of my ramblings is to maybe think about out of state options.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I guess the point of my ramblings is to maybe think about out of state options.

 

 

I did. I won't go into detail, or I'll draw scorn. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[1992casey]

I have friends that have three rescue English Setters, and all of them came from out of state. They've been great. I think the motivation for going outside of Wisconsin was that they were impressed with the information their research produced.

[danzig6767]

However, I don't really understand the scorn that's coming on this issue, to be completely honest.

I wouldn't sweat what anyone else thinks, i know i never do, there are always going to be preachy people trying to say what you should do on all kinds of issues. Like you, i did research and wanted certain breeds that best fit my situation and the shelters around here simply never had them while i was looking to get a dog, so i went the breeder route and things worked out very well. It was pretty amazing that what was listed and said about Tyson's breed in regards to temperament was nearly 100% spot on. Prior to getting him i never knew just how different dogs are based on breed. Thankfully i wasn't to implusive and did the research instead of grabbing the first smaller dog my kid liked without me checking into breed characteristics.

(pared back long quote --1992)

[Roscoe Chill]

I would also say needing a specific breed or gender is the same as looking only for a blue-eyed, blond haired girl to adopt.

 

Well Al, I would say that you should go adopt a, say, a pitbull, or a dalmation that has already had issues from a shelter then...that'll probably work out for you and your young son. I mean after all, the only difference between a black lab and a pitbull is their hair color, right?

[aracko]

Lets not knock pit bulls. As an owner of 2 sister pitbulls, and 3 Children ages 4,6, and 10.......I would never ever get another breed.

 

Until you own a pitbull I dont think its fair to put them down.

[TooLiveBrew]

go adopt a, say, a pitbull, or a dalmation that has already had issues from a shelter

 

He didn't just single out pitbulls, and the boldfaced part is the most relevant imho.

[aracko]

Your right - My mistake.

[Thurston Fluff]

I want a small(er) dog. I would like a dog with a good temperament and an ability to be around children. I want a dog that trains somewhat easy. I want a dog that has a sense of self cleanliness, that doesn't let itself get caked in crap. I want a dog that doesn't bark at every shadow or noise.

 

The Sheba sounds like the perfect dog for you. You've really done your homework which IMHO is half of the work. Their independance leads to a little stubborness at times but if they are anything like the ones I know they are so treat reactive that it shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

I live in an apartment with a large patio door which has lots of people walking by all the time and he barks at nearly every one of them if i'm not in the room to keep him quiet.

 

If it remains a real problem there are bark collars out there. Some are shock some are spray oriented. The shock ones are not at all cruel like they used to be. They react to the first bark by making a beeping sound. If he barks again it gives him a very light shock meant to be uncomfortable not painful. If he continues to bark it slowly increases the shock until it's strong enough to get his attention. The spray ones just spray them with water when they bark. If it's more an annoyance than anything maybe don't bother. If it's one of those things that could get you evicted or fined then maybe it's time to look into it. For cheaper alternatives try a squirt gun though that doesn't help when they figure out you have to be around to squirt them.

[TooLiveBrew]

If it remains a real problem there are bark collars out there. Some are shock some are spray oriented. The shock ones are not at all cruel like they used to be. They react to the first bark by making a beeping sound. If he barks again it gives him a very light shock meant to be uncomfortable not painful. If he continues to bark it slowly increases the shock until it's strong enough to get his attention.

 

I can attest to the effectiveness of the bark/shock collars. At first, I thought it was really cruel (this was not my dog... my roommate's), but they really aren't, as buc explains. The breed in my example is a mini-schnauzer & terrier mix, iirc... so, territorial. Our living arrangement wasn't as 'open' to passersby as yours, but there was plenty of foot traffic past our door. Charlie would get very territorial & start barking, and he barked a lot when his owner(s) was/were gone - even if I were still there. If I was home, I'd just have to semi-constantly be telling him to stop/interacting with him, or else he'd bark at the first noise from the hall.

 

The bark collar was 100% effective in less than 3 weeks, and once it was successful, they didn't even have to use the collar on him anymore. It just modified his behavior - pretty amazing, as the target goal for such a product couldn't possibly be any greater than that. Look at it this way - if a bark collar doesn't modify Tyson's behavior, at least you know it'll be successful for as long as he has to wear it. I'm not sure if Charlie ever connected the collar with a negative connotation - he never fought wearing it. I don't think he realized anything more than, 'I'm not allowed/supposed to bark while I'm inside.'

 

Highly recommended for your situation with Tyson! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Roscoe Chill]

I'm not knocking pit bulls, but there is a big difference in what COULD happen between a pit bull and a dachsund. My friend had a Rottweiler, a great, great dog. But, he was very loyal to my friend...and in some cases, like say a driveway basketball game, he mistook the basketball game as his master in a tussle. It was funny, and he wasn't vicious whatsoever. But if he made up his mind to attack someone, even my buddy wouldn't have been able to stop the 130 pound lug. That's just a fact. Fortunately he never had a situation like that. But to pretend that there is no difference between dog breeds? That's just plain silly.