Claudio Vargas' Future

[Tbadder]

What do you think will happen? It just seems obvious that he's the odd man out. As a starter Bush and Capuano are ahead of him the way Melvin talks. In addition we've traded for or signed a plethora of relievers so it doesn't appear he has a place in the pen either.

Making things even more difficult is a growing perception (mostly mine I admit) that his trade value is near zilch, even though he's a servicable pitcher (you gotta admit he was an good #5 starter last year ).

Plus, there are other complications. It seems to me, and maybe the saber-dudes can help me out, that his talent lies in getting hitters out in scoring position. Sure he lets in his fair share, his ERA proves that, but as a percentage he seems to be not so bad, suggesting that maybe he really would be a bullpen help, kinda like the opposite of Turnbow who has to be brought in at the beginning of an inning, Claudio could be brought in when the fire is hot.

And then there's Zach Jackson. I mention him because it seems to me that if Claudio is kept around for injury insurance, to be used temporarily, then a guy like Jackson could just as easily fill that roll, knowing that as soon as injured starter is back AAA would be beckoning.

And then there's the trade again, I think it would just drive Melvin crazy to cut Vargas because it's gonna make him look lame here. Trading Doug Davis away is one thing, but virtually giving him away is an entirely different thing.

So what's gonna happen?

a) he makes the team
b) he's DFAed
c) he's traded for a middling prospect at best
d) he makes the team because someone else is traded and the other pitcher represents better value, ie Bush, Capuano

And futhermore, if we cut Vargas or trade him for virtually zero does it mean:

a) we've come a long way as an organization with an ability to disgard pitchers who have some value, or
b) Claudio's stint proves that we've made a mistake in our long term planning

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

I think he gets traded to a team that suffers an injury during ST.

 

And futhermore, if we cut Vargas or trade him for virtually zero does it mean:

 

a) we've come a long way as an organization with an ability to disgard pitchers who have some value, or

we have definately come along way as he would have been a 3rd starter back in the day

 

b) Claudio's stint proves that we've made a mistake in our long term planning

Why do you think its was a mistake? We have 7 other starters that are better. If we still had DD, where would he fit into the rotation - I think Sheets, Suppan, Yo and Villy would still be ahead of him and he's probably equal to the guys he would be competing for the 5th spot with.

 

We've moved ahead and its a good thing.

[ozzybourne]

i agree he should be traded. hi career era is almost 5.00, and that is all in the NL. his numbers across the board are average. so you're right, get what you can for him.

actually i'm not sure why he was not tendered based on what he may return--i guess DM figures someone will take him.

 

our team has improved pitching quite a bit--he might have ended up in the bullpen if we hadn't signed riske, torres, gagne. or he might still if DM cant trade him. i dont see a $3mil+ guy like him in the minors.

[DrWood]

Vargas is the perfect #6 starter, in my mind, or would be if he is cheaper. Problem is, there are 7 guys ahead of him, as far as I'm concerned. I think Vargas has a good shot to be on the opening day roster, but that will require an injury or two and/or trade or two to other starters.

Livan got $5m, Vargas at $3.6 doesn't seem that bad for a team wanting a 5th starter.

[Beer and Braunies]

I think they should hang on to him until the trading deadline and see what they can get for him. I'm guessing Parra will be starting the year at AAA and get brought up later. That leaves 2 of Bush/Cappy/Vargas in the pen and the other one in the rotation. If one of the starters goes down early, then there will still be enough depth to cover for the starter and keep a long reliever. I don't think Doug would get a lot in return for Vargas, his record is completely inflated because of nearly 6 runs of support per game. If Capuano would have had that type of support, he would have had a lot more wins.

[DrWood]

if we are talking long-term, I think Vargas will be a bartender somewhere in the caribbean.

just a hunch.

[bork]

If Melvin can't find a trade, I wonder if Mota is the odd man out, with Vargas and Cappy in the bullpen? Melvin indicated that Bush has an inside track on a rotation spot.

[sbrylski]

If Melvin can't find a trade, I wonder if Mota is the odd man out, with Vargas and Cappy in the bullpen? Melvin indicated that Bush has an inside track on a rotation spot.

Bush over Villanueva has been hinted, not over Capuano.

[twobrewers]

Someone starts the year "injured" and on the DL until some team suffers an injury and trades for CV.

[GAME05]

aren't there certain rules about cutting a player or something like that once you've offered him arbitration, or am I just mistaken?

 

though i think Vargas would be the obvious choice if one player had to simply be cut, it seems the obvious solution is for DM to trade somebody, and I think Villy or Bush would be more logical, just so that we can get a worthwhile prospect in return. The only think Vargas would net us is getting his salary off the books. if it was anyone I'd be shopping Dave Bush.

[Oldcity]

The only think Vargas would net us is getting his salary off the books.

Honestly, that's just fine with me.

 

[twobrewers]

Honestly, that's just fine with me.

 

Seems like a lot of people get caught up in the money aspect of evaluating many players. (Mota costs too much. So does Gagne. So does Counsell. So does Vargas) But while I hope the Brewers exercise fiscal responsibility - it isn't my money.

 

Given the choice of having Vargas or not having Vargas - I'll take him anytime. He would make a good long man and great insurance policy.

 

Until the Brewers start passing on players (or letting players leaving via free agency) because of contracts given to the likes of Vargas there isn't any harm.

[logan82]

If I am mistaken let me know, but I thought Vargas already has a contract with us so we are on the hook for his salary unless we trade him or somebody picks him up off of waivers if we try sending him to AAA. I have no problem with Vargas in AAA as an extra arm, but I am not sure he would clear waivers.

 

The reason I want Vargas traded over Bush or Villanueva is that those two should be able to make solid contributions this year and years to come above what we would probably get in return. We control both of those guys for a while yet.

[RockCoCougars]

Can't have enough pitchers. While I don't have any stats to back me, it seems that he pitched pretty well out of the pen last year. What can you get for him that would be of value this year anyway?

[logan82]

Can't have enough pitchers. While I don't have any stats to back me, it seems that he pitched pretty well out of the pen last year. What can you get for him that would be of value this year anyway?

I don't think we could get anything of value for him for this or even next year. I would prefer to keep him, but I would prefer to trade him and get something rather than loose him through waivers. Right now I would put him as the 13th pitcher when only 12 are needed. It comes down to either he or Mota right now for the last spot, in my opinion anyway. Mota has shown more success in the past as a relief pitcher and would be my choice to make the roster. Vargas has one more year of arbitration before free agency, so one more "cheap" year.

[chadomac]

I'm going to be extremely upset if Villanueva doesn't start this year. What more does this have to do to prove himself? Dave Bush should not be starting over him.

[hauser42]

I'm going to be extremely upset if Villanueva doesn't start this year. What more does this have to do to prove himself? Dave Bush should not be starting over him.

Villy had very high strand rate last year so he could easily go down hill from last year.

 

You dont just trade away a SP when you have other options to keep him around. Parra can start out the year in AAA unless he really shows he is the 5th SP this spring. If it meant that Brewers could get more in return for Cappy or Bush I would be all for trading them first.

[brewjihad]

I do think that Vargas could be made into a very good short reliever, but the Brewers don't have room for him in that role. If you made a scouting report of him, you could draw some conclusions:

- He works very slowly

- Gets out of jams

- Only throws 3 pitches consistently

- Doesn't work deep into games as a starter

- Throws hard: 90-93

Unfortunately, that doesn't help out his trade value very much.

[homer]

Unfortunately, that doesn't help out his trade value very much.

 

Some GM may overvalue his win total.

[molitor fan]

With the Gallardo injury, I believe that keeping Claudio around is pretty much a certainty