Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In

[DHonks]

And the key word is listed.

 

colby, filthy, pogo, etc, you are all correct. I have a relatively small sample size, but the pitchers I've been around that are easily under 6'0 include Huston Street, Lance Cormier (now of Braves), and Curtis Leskanic. Jamie Shields of the DRays might be under 6', as I don't remember him towering over me like Casey Daigle, Doug Slaten, etc.

 

For reference, I'm 5'10 or 5'11" (on a good day, with shoes on). I had Leskanic by a good 2". Huston Street can't be more than 5'10" and 170. Yet I see he's listed at 6' and 190. I remember once seeing Leskanic listed at 6'1, which made me laugh.

 

What's funny is that it's not just pro sports, but college and high school. proportion is likely more important than listed size.

[Katuluu]

Maybe they measure from the base of the mound up?

[pogokat]

Maybe they measure from the base of the mound up?

 

that would have made shane nance about 4 foot 3 when he wasnt pitching

[brettac1]

that would have made shane nance about 4 foot 3 when he wasnt pitching

 

Oddly, that seems just about right.

[TheEndless7]

the D-ray's sight says Kazmir is 6'0, I've seen other things that say he's 5'11, he's one of hte best young pitchers in baseball.

[endaround]

This is done because scouts would rather have an athlete than a baseball player. And you need to fit a certain profile to be an athlete. If a high school team lists their phenom pitcher at an honest 5'11" they'll see no scouts come by and may even have problems getting a college scholarship. List him as 6'2" and suddenly he's a top prospect.

 

So once a player is listed at a given height, you go changing it and suddenly more questions pop up. So you leave it be.

 

(I love how my 6'3" brother was 6'5" 210 for football and 6'5" 190 for basketball)

[DHonks]

I'd say Nance was more about 5'3" when I was around him.

[Postseason2006]

Like Pedro Martinez is HUGE....

 

If he's 5'11", 180 lbs, I'll eat Kevin Mench's jockstrap for lunch.

[colbyjack]

I just remembered that a few of my collegues at Perfect Game wrote a couple of columns on shorter MLB players. Jerry Ford takes his stab on the subject in the first link, David Rawnsley in the second:

 

www.perfectgame.org/crack...5Fplayers/

 

www.perfectgame.org/crack...Fpitchers/

 

Nothing scientific in either one, just some breakdowns that are fun to look at.

[colbyjack]

Also, since this was somewhat spurred by the player of the year idea, and not to toot my own PG horn too much, but in my column this week I assembled a minor league All-Star team, taking the best players at their respective positions that have participated at Perfect Game events. Angel Salome was nominated as my catcher, as when doing the research for this story, it was impressive to see just how good Salome's numbers were in comparison to other prospective catchers:

 

www.perfectgame.org/crack...ar%5Fteam/

[filthyfrog]

not to toot my own PG horn too much

 

Colby, I'm sure everyone would agree with me that you've more than earned the right to toot your own horn as much as you see fit. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[UWRyan428]

You know you said MIGUEL Cabrera in that article instead of Orlando Cabrera. Does someone have a bit of Miguel Cabrera on their mind?? Seriously, with all the talk on here about good targets for our lustful eyes, why does Loria's version of a rich-man's Bill Hall (only because he could probably play shortstop if forced) never get mentioned as a viable target? I know he has to be one of the three most valuable commodities in baseball (ANY team could afford him and ANY team could use him...) Add to that the fact that, as of right now, he is well on his way to a HOF debate. But I digress. Fine piece of literature, good sir.

[colbyjack]

Thanks Frog, and UWRyan. I really need a proofreader http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

 

Just to add to your thought, if there was any way that Miguel Cabrera became available, I would trade the farm, almost literally, to get him.

[Mass Haas]

Baseball America's John Manuel is a good friend of Brewerfan and took the time to follow-up with us on this discussion, prompted initially by his online chat at BA:

 

Jim, I was just checking my Brewerfan.net info on the '06 draftees, and just ran into the comments I made about Will Inman in my chat. Sorry if I didn't answer your question. I will here, you can post it if you like:

 

Best tandem . . . I'd have to say close but for me I'd take (the Twins') Matt Garza and Kevin Slowey (just personal taste for me, I really like Slowey). That's very tough though; the more I think about it (which I really can't do in a chat, that's supposed to be quick-thinking answers, not ruminative), it's pretty close, and if sufficiently prodded, I could probably make that case. I guess I would like it better if I could be 100 percent sold on Inman and Gallardo being QUITE this good. Forgive me but I don't. I think they're both very good pitching prospects, but neither one is a No. 1 starter for me, and it sounds like Garza might just be.

 

Top 5 organization . . . I think so, there is a lot of talent, though when I think about it, it's more at lower levels than higher levels. Part of me thinks that's natural--we're always more optimistic about the low-level guys because they've had less time to screw up. The Brewers also have graduated a lot of talent lately, and the Triple-A and Double-A teams aren't quite as teeming with prospects as they have been. Gallardo spent half a season at double-A; same with Braun. Triple-A doesn't have a Corey Hart, a regular--I'm nitpicking here, I hope you understand. I like Gwynn, Rottino, Eveland, Z. Jackson a bit, Sarfate, just all more as role players, and Eveland and Jackson were not good as you know better than I do in their big league callups. I do seem to have underestimated Carlos Villanueva. But when I look at the bright side, I see prospects at every level, huge steps forward for Gallardo and Inman, good moves for Braun, Gwynn, Hammond, Villanueva, Dillard, Iribarren (the cork notwithstanding), B. Katin . . .Plus another solid draft, lots of raw talent. Lots to like at West Virginia. . . . Just a very deep organization, in my opinion, without having looked at all 30 as closely, it has the feel of a top 5 organization.

 

One last thing, but some people seem to imply in that chat that BA has something against short RHPs. We just did a cover story about this back in May (Jerry Crasnick wrote it, photos of Tim Lincecum, others used, Lincecum on the cover), explaining why SCOUTS have the bias, and why it's going away. We just report it; we're not scouts, and we're not exactly analysts either, we're reporters. In the blog-infested era we're in, people forget that sometimes. We're reporting what people in the know, scouts and managers and coaches and the like, tell us about Inman. With Inman, it's that he's short AND unconventional w/his delivery, and that's just something most scouts point out when they talk about him; he's different. That doesn't mean bad, it just means they have a harder time buying in.

 

I guess my main point is, I like Will Inman as a prospect, a lot more than I seemed to let on in that chat, but I just hesitate to put him in the "elite" category yet because he is a bit unconventional and I want to see him do it above the low Class A level. That's all.

 

Keep up the good work and thanks.

[DHonks]

Thanks a lot for posting that Mass. And thanks to John for writing those comments/descriptions.

 

As was said in the other thread (I think by senatorshriv), I'd love to hear some assessment of the OFers in the system. I'd also love to hear thoughts of an expert on Dillard, Jones, Hammond, and Garrison

[brettac1]

John Manuel. Terrific. Seriously awesome. He provided his reasoning, and it was solid. What other media members (especially in baseball) would do that, and for a message board of all things? Most don't even acknowledge their existence.

 

Thanks, also to Jim, for being able to communicate with John Manuel.

[colbyjack]

John Manuel has always been a very good resource and a very good writer at Baseball America. I respect his work and appreciate that he took the time to respond to Jim's question via email. I also was very excited last year when I discovered he would be covering the Brewers scouting reports instead of Tom Haudricourt.

 

However, he's dodging the short pitcher thing. Again, I'm going to supply his initial comment on Inman:

 

He's a bit unconventional, he's short, it's just going to be harder for him.

 

Harder for him to receive the proper respect from scouts because he's shorter, or harder for him to succeed as he moves up because he's shorter? If it's the first point, I agree, he addressed that comment, but that is not how I took that statement. He made it sound as though he believes it will be harder for Inman to succeed because he is unconventional in the eyes of scouts. That I don't agree with, and it seems to contradict his point about the bias of short pitchers.

 

I know, I'm nitpicking, and maybe Mr. Manuel just doesn't like to admit he was wrong http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif . If you're out there reading, thank you, and I apologize for being such a pest.

 

Interesting pick for the best 1-2 pitching tandem in the minors in Garza & Slowey. I know SoCal posted on the MLB forum about the rumored deal with the Angels that Melvin didn't take for Carlos Lee (Jeff Mathis & Erick Aybar), but what about the rumored deal with the Twins that Melvin turned down: Kevin Slowey and Glen Perkins?