Retro-Oscars - The Eighties

[RobertR]

A sequel to a now lost topic. I'm of the opinion that with benefit of time we can make better decisions when judging art. But, it's also worth giving credit when people get things right at the time. So, a look back at the Academy Awards with the benefit of time.

This time I'm going to cover the 1980s. Maybe 1990 as well since I believe I skipped that last time. So, to start 1980. (I'll list the actual winner first then the rest of the nominees.)

Best Picture
Ordinary People
Raging Bull
Coal Miner's Daughter
The Elephant Man
Tess

Other notable films: The Empire Strikes Back, Kagemusha, The Great Santini, Melvin and Howard, The Stunt Man, Airplane!, The Blues Brothers, The Shining

My Choice: Raging Bull

Thoughts: Raging Bull is widely regarded as one of the best films of the 1980s and this is regarded as one of the biggest misses in Oscar history. So much has been written about Raging Bull that I'm not going to even try to add on except to say that it's a perfect blending of the technical and personal between Scorsese and DeNiro. That said, with the exception of Tess, which looks like a misguided statement in retrospect, the nominated pictures look right. Maybe substitute The Empire Strikes Back for Tess and you'd have a hard time doing better. Good process leading to a bad final decision.

Best Actor
Robert DeNiro - Raging Bull
John Hurt - The Elephant Man
Robert Duvall - The Great Santini
Peter O'Toole - The Stunt Man
Jack Lemmon - Tribute

Other notables: Donald Sutherland - Ordinary People, Paul LeMat - Melvin and Howard, Lee Marvin - The Big Red One, Jack Nicholson - The Shining

My Choice: Robert DeNiro

Thoughts: A good choice by the Academy that's stood the test of time. While once regarded as something of a stunt, within reason, actors are now expected to shed and gain weight as appropriate for a part. And, beyond that, it's a great performance by DeNiro who manifests equal measures of self loathing and ferocity. It's a shame that Peter O'Toole hasn't won an Oscar, but this wasn't the year to award him one out of sentimentality. Overall a good set of nominees as well, although Jack Lemmon could be replaced.

Best Actress
Sissy Spacek - Coal Miner's Daughter
Gena Rowlands - Gloria
Mary Tyler Moore - Ordinary People
Goldie Hawn - Private Benjamin
Ellyn Burstyn - Resurrection

Other Notables: Dolly Parton - Nine to Five, Catherine DeNeuve - The Last Metro, Julie Hagerty - Airplane!

My Choice: Sissy Spacek

Thoughts: Man, that's a weak year. I don't think I've ever even heard of Resurrection before this, although Burstyn is a fine actress. Gloria isn't even considered a particularly good film. I'd probably go with Dolly Parton over Goldie Hawn as well. Still, it's hard in retrospect to see it not coming down to Mary Tyler Moore vs. Sissy Spacek and I think the right choice was made.

Best Supporting Actor
Timothy Hutton - Ordinary People
Joe Pesci - Raging Bull
Michael O'Keefe - The Great Santini
Judd Hirsch - Ordinary People
Jason Robards - Melvin and Howard

Other Notables: Lloyd Bridges - Airplane!, Leslie Nielsen - Airplane!, Dabney Coleman - Nine to Five, Rodney Dangerfield - Caddyshack, Terrence Stamp - Superman II, Michael Caine - Dressed to Kill

My Choice: Joe Pesci

Thoughts: Again, a perfectly reasonable set of nominees. Michael O'Keefe would have looked bad as a winner in retrospect, but any of the other four would have been perfectly reasonable. This is the perfect bookend to Pesci's performance in Goodfellas as he's the one that's put upon in this film.

And, yeah, Bridges and Nielsen would have had no chance if nominated, but the degree to which they spoofed their own images deserves recognition, even if only in hindsight.

Supporting Actress
Mary Steenburgen - Melvin and Howard
Diane Scarwid - Inside Moves
Eilleen Brennan - Private Benjamin
Cathy Moriarty - Raging Bull
Eva La Gallienne - Resurrection

Other Notables: Debra Winger - Urban Cowboy, Beverly D'Angelo - Coal Miner's Daughter, Aretha Franklin - The Blues Brothers

Thoughts: Like Resurrection earlier, I've never even heard of Inside Moves before this. I think the Academy made the right choice here as well. Brennan is good in Private Benjamin, although a bit one note. Cathy Moriarty is good too in Raging Bull, although not up to Pesci and DeNiro. But, I think Steenburgen's performance manages to be more rounded and better than both of them. Again, the nominee field is weak, but there were three legitimate contenders.

I don't know if it was a particularly interesting year. There are not a lot of films and performances that I think were missed by the nominating process. The pool of candidates seems really shallow that year. There were two classic comedies in 1980 with Airplane! and The Blues Brothers, and one classic science fiction film, The Empire Strikes Back, so I can understand arguments for their inclusion in Best Picture, although I'd still argue for Raging Bull as the choice. And, Scorsese as director, of course.

I do think the Academy can pat themselves on the back for the actor/actress awards though. All of them look understandable in hindsight and I'm certainly going to argue that they're at least vindicated on three of them with time.

Robert

[Fatter than Joey]

I have nothing to add, other than I really enjoy reading these -- I look forward to 1981.

[RobertR]

On to 1981 (Winner's listed first)

 

Best Picture

Chariots of Fire

Raiders of the Lost Ark

Reds

Atlantic City

On Golden Pond

 

Other Notable Films: Ragtime, The French Lieutenant's Woman, The Road Warrior, The Evil Dead (ok, not a serious candidate, but it did launch the career of Sam Raimi), Gallipoli, Body Heat, My Dinner With Andre, Mephisto, Time Bandits, Blow Out, An American Werewolf in London, Excalibur, Prince of the City, Pennies From Heaven

 

My Choice: Raiders of the Lost Ark

 

Thoughts: Chariots of Fire: bad best picture winner or the worst best picture winner? Honestly, other than shots of people running on the beach in slow motion to the music of Vangelis, I'd rather watch The English Patient again. It's competently acted and nicely shot, but I found the story wholely uninvolving. Heck, I'd sooner justify Ordinary People over Raging Bull than Chariots of Fire winning. Reds is, of course, the sweeping epic that most closely resembles a normal best picture winner and I admire Atlantic City's grit, solid acting, and low key nature, can't say I've ever cared for On Golden Pond though, but Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of the classic action adventure movies. Nowadays, it probably wouldn't get nominated, but in a time when the blockbuster tentpole was still a relatively new thing and not the norm.

 

It was a good year for film with quite a few films that have stood the test of time.

 

Best Actor

Henry Fonda - On Golden Pond

Paul Newman - Absence of Malice

Dudley Moore - Arthur

Burt Lancaster - Atlantic City

Warren Beatty - Reds

 

Other notables: Mel Gibson - The Road Warrior, Gallipoli, Harrison Ford - Raiders of the Lost Ark, Treat Williams - Prince of the City, Timothy Hutton - Taps, Steve Martin - Pennies From Heaven, Klaus Maria Brandauer - Mephisto, Bill Murray - Stripes

 

My Pick: Burt Lancaster

 

Thoughts: Thank heavens that Dudley Moore didn't win. That's a performance that hasn't aged well at all. As I recall Henry Fonda was fine in On Golden Pond, but I don't think it's wrong to suggest that sentimentality played more than a little role in that award. To me, the standout performances of the nominees were Warren Beatty and Burt Lancaster and I really like Lancaster's performance as a small time aging hood to this day. I do wish Ford had been nominated, it's not every day that a classic character is created and Ford had more than a little to do with that, including perhaps the most famous feat of improvisation in a blockbuster.

 

Best Actress

Katherine Hepburn - On Golden Pond

Susan Sarandon - Atlantic City

Meryl Streep - The French Lieutenant's Woman

Marsha Mason - Only When I Laugh

Diane Keaton - Reds

 

Other Notables: Sissy Spacek - Raggedy Man, Sally Field - Absence of Malice, Bernadette Peters - Pennies From Heaven, Kathleen Turner - Body Heat, Faye Dunaway - Mommie Dearest, Karen Allen - Raiders of the Lost Ark

 

My Pick: Susan Sarandon

 

Thoughts: I think sentimentality was a factor in this race as well. But, it looks like a very competitive field. Hepburn and Streep are all time greats. Susan Sarandon put The Rocky Horror Picture Show far behind her with Atlantic City. Diane Keaton is no slouch. I'm totally unfamiliar with Only When I Laugh, apparently it must have done well. And there are certainly some notable other female performances. It was a strong year. To me it came down to Sarandon vs. Streep and while Streep is, as usual, terrific there's something about that role that comes off as a technical exercise to me. Sarandon feels all natural.

 

Best Supporting Actor

John Gielgud - Arthur

Ian Holm - Chariots of Fire

Jack Nicholson - Reds

Howard E. Rollins Jr. - Ragtime

James Coco - Only When I Laugh

 

Other notables: Ralph Richardson - Time Bandits, Dragonslayer, Warren Oates - Stripes, John Candy - Stripes

 

My Pick: John Gielgud

 

Thoughts: I suspect Nicholson would win it if they voted again today. And it would be defensible. That said, I like the choice of Gielgud. I don't think Arthur holds up, but Gielgud's performance was pitch perfect then and it remains so to this day. I had a tough time coming up with additional choices, anyone care to throw some others up there I'm forgetting? Seems like a weak year in a category that's usually pretty strong.

 

Best Supporting Actress

Maureen Stapleton - Reds

Melinda Dillon - Absence of Malice

Jane Fonda - On Golden Pond

Joan Hackett - Only When I Laugh

Elizabeth McGovern - Ragtime

 

Other Notables: Mary Steenburgen - Ragtime, Vermithrax Pejorative - Dragonslayer

 

Thoughts: Seems like a perfectly reasonable set of nominees. And I'd suspect that Maureen Stapleton would win again. I've no real pick in this race as I haven't seen any of these performances in a long time. I'd guess I'd go with Stapleton based on rep, but that's all I have going. Anybody I missed here too?

 

 

Overall a pretty good year, and a respectable set of nominees for the most part, but the big winners of the biggest categories (with the exception of Beatty winning director for Reds) did the Academy no favors and look pretty bad in hindsight. It was a pretty good year in genre filmmaking only to be wholely transcended in 1982, but unfortunately only Raiders reflected that in the awards. One of the worst winners of all time, IMO, in Chariots, and one of the worst nominated performances ever in Dudley Moore. This is a year that really could use a do over.

 

Robert

[TheRealMattKain]

Great lists! I'm a long-time lurker and have always loved your Oscar-rewind posts.

A couple of comments:

1980: Even though you mentioned them, I think both CADDYSHACK (one of the finest comedies of the decade) and DRESSED TO KILL (one of De Palma's best) deserve more praise. I'd also like to give a nod to two more of my favorites from 1980: STARDUST MEMORIES (not Allen's best, but a must see for all of his fans) and THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY (saw for the first time a few months ago, really helped lay the framework of the modern gangster movie. Helen Mirren never looked better).

1981: OK, I admit that CHARIOTS OF FIRE doesn't deserve the canonical status that it somehow has and certainly was not the best film of the year. However, I grew up a long distance runner, and I can honestly say that the slow-mo running on the beach scene is as close as I've ever seen a movie come to capturing the euphoria of a runner's high. Yes, the Vangelis song has been overplayed and overused and the scene has been parodied and appropriated (thanks Nike) ad nauseum, but that scene still gives me shivers. And yes, the movie has many problems - it lacks focus, is poorly paced, is a bit stuffy at times, and does a lousy job transitioning through the various time periods. Nonetheless, I still have a soft spot for CHARIOTS OF FIRE and don't think it's nearly as bad as you imply.

Other favs from 1981: MOMMIE DEAREST (you mentioned it briefly, but this movie is spectacular), SCANNERS (great stuff from Cronenberg), GREGORY'S GIRL (excellent Scottish coming of age movie with Clare Gorgan of Altered Images - what I imagine a Belle and Sebastian movie being like), MAN OF IRON (not as good as some of Wajda's other stuff - i.e., ASHES AND DIAMONDS, MAN OF MARBLE - but still quality cinema), and DAS BOOT. Personally, I'd have to go with DAS BOOT as the best movie of the year. I get claustrophobic just thinking about it. I always thought RAIDERS was overrated and doesn't hold up over time (I know, blasphemy).

Also note that 1980 and 1981 were very exciting years for Hong Kong cinema. The rise of Cantonese language television in the late '70s (through TVB), numerous burgeoning film clubs, a new focus on the social and cultural uniqueness of Hong Kong, and a rash of new directors gave birth to the Hong Kong New Wave film movement. Although overlooked by many Western audiences, 1980 and 1981 saw a wealth of unique and innovative movies from Hong Kong New Wave directors: Patrick Tam's LOVE MASSACRE and THE SWORD, Ann Hui's STORY OF WOO VIET and THE SPOOKY BUNCH, Allen Fong's FATHER AND SON, and Tsui Hark's DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS OF THE FIRST KIND. 1980 and 1981 were also the years that Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung really started to hold their own as both directors and action choreographers. Jackie directed YOUNG MASTER and Sammo directed CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE SPOOKY KIND in 1980. Both are excellent films that helped set the standard for the changing landscape of Hong Kong action movies. Regardless of whether or not some of these movies would ever be considered Oscar-worthy films, they definitely paved the way for the Hong Kong cinema explosion of the 1980s.

[TheRealMattKain]

I guess I need to qualify my DAS BOOT comments. Even though it was released in Germany in 1981, it didn't get a US release until 1982 (and hence became eligible for an Academy Award in '82 not '81). This really confuses my argument, so take it for what it's worth (and begins to shed light on some of the strange and often unfair Academy rules - especially concerning foreign films. But that's getting off topic...). I still see DAS BOOT as the best film of '81.

 

And, for the record, I'm totally behind RAGING BULL as best picture of 1980.

 

MattKain

[homer]

"Michael O'Keefe - The Great Santini" I still find it hard to believe that Danny Noonan was nominated for an Acadamy Award.

 

 

And this may sound odd, but I think Leslie Nielson should have been recognized for Airplane! - at least with a nomination. That was a role that had never been seen on camera before and he played it perfectly. Too bad the Acadamy has such a pre conceived notion for 'Best' this or that. It's almost like they try to nominate what they think everyone else thinks the 'best' of something should be rather than what the 'best' really is. I think that explains why there are so many repeat nominees.

[RobertR]

DAS BOOT will be brought up in 1982. As will the also excellent DIVA. Two movies that technically had 1982 eligibility. They'll both be, at least, on the other notables list.

 

I thought about CADDYSHACK but decided that the other two are better crafted comedies and that CADDYSHACK works in spite of a rather bland main storyline involving Danny Noonan. It's the supporting characters that make CADDYSHACK work. SCANNERS didn't make the list for similar reasoning.

 

I fully agree that Nielsen would have been a good choice for a supporting actor nod, a performance that people hadn't seen before and one that totally worked against his public image at the time.

 

I perhaps didn't make it clear, but I do find the running scenes of CHARIOTS OF FIRE stirring. That's the reason that the movie hasn't dropped totally out of cultural awareness. There are plenty of Best Picture winners that don't have that sort of cultural awareness, but I'd argue that most are better overall movies. Still, it is worthwhile to note that it does touch greatness on occasion and is memorable in parts.

 

Also thanks for the reminder on Hong Kong and the east. The rise of the Asian action film is an important and influential trend of the 1980s that I totally forgotten about. Like Japanese horror in the 90s and what's emerging in South Korea this decade.

 

Robert

[Fatter than Joey]

I perhaps didn't make it clear, but I do find the running scenes of CHARIOTS OF FIRE stirring.

 

I agree with Robert 100% -- I would never say COF was a bad movie, but it seemed like a movie people supported so they could feel highbrow. It is very "bleh" to me.

[RobertR]

1982 might not be 1939. Or 1999 for that matter, but it was a very solid year. Especially for genre filmmaking. So, on to the major categories, winners listed first.

 

Best Picture

Gandhi

E. T. the Extra-Terrestrial

Missing

Tootsie

The Verdict

 

Other notable films: Das Boot, Diva, Fitzcarraldo, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, The Thing, Blade Runner, Poltergeist, Sophie's Choice, Victor Victoria, Diner, One From the Heart (Note: Fanny and Alexander not eligible until the following year)

 

My Choice of Nominated Films: E. T. the Extra-Terrestrial

My Overall Choice: Blade Runner

 

Thoughts: I'm giving E.T. extra credit in that choice for being representative of an overall wave of science fiction where even the failures, Tron and The Dark Crystal, were interesting, ambitious failures. But it was a strong year and while I'm still slightly turned off by the campaigning for Gandhi, ("A vote for Gandhi is a vote for world peace.") I at least recognize it as a very well acted, good looking, respectable biography. There certainly have been worse best picture winners. Tootsie and The Verdict have also stood the test of time. I suspect that if the awards were held today, E.T., Tootsie, and The Verdict would stand a strong chance of being nominated again.

 

But look at that other notables list. You can tell its a strong year when you can fashion a perfectly respectable Best Picture list out of the movies that weren't nominated. Heck, I'm kind of surprised Sophie's Choice wasn't nominated. Das Boot got a Best Director nomination for Wolfgang Peterson and I'm sort of surprised it wasn't nominated either. Diva is a terrific movie as well. There's at least a half dozen movies that I can make legit arguments as Best Picture. I admit that I'm a Blade Runner junkie though and the fact that I have the deluxe five disc final cut settled any arguments in my mind as to what my choice was. That's a film who's reputation has grown over the years.

 

Best Actor

Ben Kingsley - Gandhi

Peter O'Toole - My Favorite Year

Dustin Hoffman - Tootsie

Paul Newman - The Verdict

Jack Lemmon - Missing

 

Other Notables: Jurgen Prochnow - Das Boot, Albert Finney - Shoot the Moon, William Shatner - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Richard Gere - An Officer and a Gentleman, Kevin Kline - Sophie's Choice, Klaus Kinski - Fitzcarraldo, Jack Nicholson - The Border, Nick Nolte - 48 Hrs., Kurt Russell - The Thing, Michael Moriarty - Q, the Winged Serpent

 

My Pick: Ben Kingsley - Gandhi

 

Thoughts: Hard to complain about the choice. Kingsley carries that movie and is always interesting to watch. He'd probably win again if the vote was held today.

 

Good set of nominees overall. Hoffman and Newman would probably still be nominated. O'Toole and Lemmon would have stiff competition though. I'd probably go with Prochnow and Kinski to round out the nominees in place of O'Toole and Lemmon.

 

1982 is also notable as the year that launched Arnold Schwarzenegger as a legit lead actor with Conan the Barbarian. Not the only significant breakthrough. It was Kevin Kline's first major role as well.

 

Best Actress

Meryl Streep - Sophie's Choice

Jessica Lange - Frances

Sissy Spacek - Missing

Debra Winger - An Officer and a Gentleman

Julie Andrews - Victor Victoria

 

Other notables: JoBeth Williams - Poltergeist, Diane Keaton - Shoot the Moon, Jennifer Jason Leigh - Fast Times at Ridgemont High

 

My pick: Meryl Streep - Sophie's Choice

 

Thoughts: Hard to argue with the nominees or the winner here. I've no doubt that Meryl Streep would win, convincingly, if the vote was held again today. And why not?

 

Jennifer Jason Leigh is, of course, notable for breaking through and launching her acting career. There was a time when I thought she'd have an Oscar by now. And 1982 is the year where Jessica Lange got real traction as a serious actress.

 

Best Supporting Actor

Louis Gossett Jr. - An Officer and a Gentleman

Charles Durning - The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas

James Mason - The Verdict

Robert Preston - Victor Victoria

John Lithgow - The World According to Garp

 

Other notables: Michael Keaton - Night Shift, Eddie Murphy - 48 Hrs., Sean Penn - Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Ray Walston - Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Mickey Rourke - Diner, Rutger Hauer - Blade Runner, Ricardo Montalban - Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan, Dabney Coleman - Tootsie, Sydney Pollack - Tootsie

 

My Pick: Do I have to? I suppose Louis Gossett Jr. is a fine choice, and the award made Iron Eagle possible, although it was practically impossible to go wrong.

 

Thoughts: You'd be hard pressed to come up with a better group of supporting actors than the above. Or a more significant group as Michael Keaton, Eddie Murphy, and Sean Penn went on to be stars from these breakout roles. I suppose Robert Preston's performance hasn't aged as well as many of the others, but it's still a ridiculously strong group.

 

I believe Charles Durning has to be in the running for shortest appearance that earned an acting Oscar nomination. It's a standout scene though in an otherwise unremarkable movie.

 

Best Supporting Actress

Jessica Lange - Tootsie

Kim Stanley - Frances

Teri Garr - Tootsie

Leslie Ann Warren - Victor Victoria

Glen Close - The World According to Garp

 

Other notables: Cher - Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, Lainie Kazan - My Favorite Year, Daryl Hannah - Blade Runner

 

My Pick: Jessica Lange - Tootsie

 

Thoughts: Relatively the weakest category, but still not a weak one. I suspect that then and now Jessica Lange vs. Glen Close would be the actual decision. It was probably seen as a bit of a concilation prize at the time, but Lange is very good in Tootsie and the award still looks good in hindsight.

 

I suspect that if the awards were held now that Cher would get a nomination. Probably over Leslie Ann Warren. She'd go on to have a significant acting career, but that's the performance that made her a credible actor.

 

Terrific year. And although I'd disagree with the Best Picture winner, the Academy looks pretty sharp on the acting awards. About the only thing they have to be ashamed of is not awarding Blade Runner Best Art Direction (that went to Gandhi of all films) and not giving Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid an editing nomination. Tim Burton's Vincent also should have snagged a Best Animated Short nomination and perhaps won. But, in a year as strong as this one it's impossible to go really wrong.

 

Robert

[TheRealMattKain]

I thought about CADDYSHACK but decided that the other two are better crafted comedies and that CADDYSHACK works in spite of a rather bland main storyline involving Danny Noonan. It's the supporting characters that make CADDYSHACK work. SCANNERS didn't make the list for similar reasoning.

I was so inspired by this thread that I rewatched CADDYSHACK, AIRPLANE!, and BLUES BROTHERS this week, and I still feel that I must disagree. In my opinion, AIRPLANE! feels like little more than a terribly long MAD TV sketch. The storyline is trite, some of the acting is atrocious (Kareem, for example), and 95% of the humor relies on throw-away puns and language misunderstandings that get old after the first 15 minutes. BLUES BROTHERS, on the other hand, has a more engaging story and some superb music, but after nearly 3 decades I think very little of the humor stands up. BLUES is a purely generational movie that I'm sure people that saw it in 1980 still hold an affinity for. However, show it to a group of 20-somethings today, and I think it would get few laughs. Personally, I really like the story in CADDYSHACK. A classic underdog tale, but with scraps of '80s edginess infused (drug use, pregnancy). The way the various storylines are woven together in the finale is perfect comic writing (the intersecting storylines reminds me a bit of an episode of Seinfeld). Not to mention classic efforts from Dangerfield, Chase, and Murray.

Also thanks for the reminder on Hong Kong and the east. The rise of the Asian action film is an important and influential trend of the 1980s that I totally forgotten about. Like Japanese horror in the 90s and what's emerging in South Korea this decade.

Don't forget the Chinese Fifth Generation directors (Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige) - I'm sure many Americans' first exposure to Chinese cinema was through a Zhang film (especially important when discussing '80s cinema). Although not nearly as influential as the others, it's also worth mentioning the Taiwanese New Wave (Hou Hsiao Hsien, Edward Yang, and Tsai Ming-liang are widely acclaimed and admired directors), the Chinese Sixth Generation directors (Zhang Yuan, Wang Xiaoshuai, and the always-hypnotic films of Jia Zhang-ke), and the current breakthrough of Thai art cinema (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, Pen-ek Ratanaruang, Wisit Sasanatieng, the Pang Brothers).

 

Matt Kain

[RobertR]

Re: 1982

 

FWIW, I'm totally serious about Shatner and Montalban. Obviously, neither one was engaging in subtle method acting that will be studied for years to come. But even though those two performances are full of scenery chewing, it's fun, charismatic scenery chewing that creates two epic opponents. The fact that they don't even meet face to face is an interesting facet of those performances as well. Let's see Daniel Day-Lewis scream "Khan!" at the top of his voice and make it a highlight.

 

Robert

[TheRealMattKain]

My Choice of Nominated Films: E. T. the Extra-Terrestrial

My Overall Choice: Blade Runner

I couldn't agree more. BLADE RUNNER was robbed, and E.T. is great sc-fi. I would have liked to have seen SOPHIE'S CHOICE get nommed, but oh well.

Thoughts: I'm giving E.T. extra credit in that choice for being representative of an overall wave of science fiction where even the failures, Tron and The Dark Crystal, were interesting, ambitious failures.

Being a software engineer and spending most of my teenage years dreaming of becoming a video game programmer, I confess to a certain bias. That being said, I think TRON is a wonderful film. I watched this just a couple of years ago, and was amazed at how impressive the special effects still look. I'll take the beauty of TRON's hand-painted and rotoscoped cells over today's mounds of hackneyed CGI slop any day.

 

 

Tootsie and The Verdict have also stood the test of time. I suspect that if the awards were held today, E.T., Tootsie, and The Verdict would stand a strong chance of being nominated again.

I couldn't disagree more. I think TOOTSIE is one of the most over-rated films of all-time. Lowest common denominator, guy-in-drag humor. A tired cliche that has been seen countless times. Heck, I got sick of this sort of joke from watching Bugs Bunny shorts in grade school. The only thing missing from TOOTSIE is a pie in the face and a slip on a banana peel. TOOTSIE has coasted on Hoffman's reputation and a lack of hindsight for 25 years. No way this would get nommed if released today. I'm hard pressed to believe that it would have much better critical reception than the whole SCARY MOVIE, DATE MOVIE, etc. cycle.

 

Robert, I think we have very different taste in comedy.

 

Other 1982 favs: FITZCARRALDO (mentioned, but should have received a best picture nomm), LIQUID SKY (too avant-garde to ever get Academy notice), FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH (another classic '80s teen movie), and THE PRODIGAL SON (Hong Kong film by Sammo Hung, huge step forward in martial arts choreography and often considered to contain one of the finest Wing Chun fights ever committed to celluloid). In addition to THE PRODIGAL SON it was another exciting year for Hong Kong cinema: start of the massively popular and influential Bond spoof series ACES GO PLACES, more great New Wave films for art cinema lovers (NOMAD, BOAT PEOPLE), and early works from some of the most influential action stars of the next 2 decades including SHAOLIN TEMPLE (Jet Li's first film), MIRACLE FIGHTERS (early stuff from Yuen Woo-Ping), and NINJA IN THE DRAGON'S DEN (early work from Corey Yuen-kwai).

 

Look forward to more of your thoughts, Robert.

 

Matt Kain

[RobertR]

Being a software engineer and spending most of my teenage years dreaming of becoming a video game programmer, I confess to a certain bias. That being said, I think TRON is a wonderful film. I watched this just a couple of years ago, and was amazed at how impressive the special effects still look. I'll take the beauty of TRON's hand-painted and rotoscoped cells over today's mounds of hackneyed CGI slop any day.

 

I couldn't disagree more. I think TOOTSIE is one of the most over-rated films of all-time. Lowest common denominator, guy-in-drag humor. A tired cliche that has been seen countless times. Heck, I got sick of this sort of joke from watching Bugs Bunny shorts in grade school. The only thing missing from TOOTSIE is a pie in the face and a slip on a banana peel. TOOTSIE has coasted on Hoffman's reputation and a lack of hindsight for 25 years. No way this would get nommed if released today. I'm hard pressed to believe that it would have much better critical reception than the whole SCARY MOVIE, DATE MOVIE, etc. cycle.

A couple of thoughts.

 

Re: Tron

 

I was more speaking to the commercial (and critical) success at the time. Of course, by that same criteria Blade Runner is also a "failure". There's no doubt that it's a gorgeous movie to watch though.

 

Re: Tootsie

 

I don't know if we're that off on Tootsie. I like the film, but I don't love it and I realize it hasn't aged without issues. Still, it's a well acted movie and it showed up on the AFI top 100 comedies list, so it has its fan base. It wouldn't make my top 5 for 1982, but it wouldn't surprise me if you polled a bunch of people if it still did well.

 

Robert

[RobertR]

I was so inspired by this thread that I rewatched CADDYSHACK, AIRPLANE!, and BLUES BROTHERS this week, and I still feel that I must disagree. In my opinion, AIRPLANE! feels like little more than a terribly long MAD TV sketch. The storyline is trite, some of the acting is atrocious (Kareem, for example), and 95% of the humor relies on throw-away puns and language misunderstandings that get old after the first 15 minutes. BLUES BROTHERS, on the other hand, has a more engaging story and some superb music, but after nearly 3 decades I think very little of the humor stands up. BLUES is a purely generational movie that I'm sure people that saw it in 1980 still hold an affinity for. However, show it to a group of 20-somethings today, and I think it would get few laughs. Personally, I really like the story in CADDYSHACK. A classic underdog tale, but with scraps of '80s edginess infused (drug use, pregnancy). The way the various storylines are woven together in the finale is perfect comic writing (the intersecting storylines reminds me a bit of an episode of Seinfeld). Not to mention classic efforts from Dangerfield, Chase, and Murray.

A few final thoughts on CADDYSHACK, which I do find very funny by the way. The "slobs vs. the snobs" is a very 80s theme and emblematic of that whole era and it perhaps should receive additional consideration because of that. And, of course, it's a very influential movie. You can probably draw a direct connection to what I consider the 80s comedy pinnacle GHOSTBUSTERS, which will be mentioned as a consideration for Best Picture. It's one of the comedy highlights for the careers of Murray, Dangerfield, and Chase. Ted Knight too. But, as I said, I find Danny Noonan's plotline mostly uninvolving. I realize he's the straight man that most of the other characters bounce off of, but I'd like him to be a little more interesting.

 

I will agree that I could have included it as a Best Picture consideration. I don't think it would have made the cut regardless.

 

As far as Airplane!, I do think removing it from the context of its time takes off some of the edge. After a decade of Airport movies, a parody was right in line. The fact that they also took a couple of supporting actors known for being straight and serious in Leslie Nielsen and Lloyd Bridges and then subverted audience expectations is an effect that has diminished over time. And the rapid fire nature of the jokes, admittedly many quite childish, hadn't been approached in a long time. Airplane! single handedly made the parody movie a perennial subgenre, for good or ill.

 

As for The Blues Brothers, I'd agree that comedy-wise it probably hasn't aged the best. That said, it's still a fairly unique concoction. The comedy-action-musical. How many of those have their been?

 

BTW, I appreciate the feedback on what was happening in Hong Kong and the east during that period. Obviously, I recognize that significant things were happening there during that decade, but I'm not afraid to admit my knowledge is limited. At least until John Woo comes around.

 

Robert

[Katuluu]

Did I really see a Q, Winged Serpent mention in this thread?

[RobertR]

Did I really see a Q, Winged Serpent mention in this thread?

And is there something wrong if you did? See http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19820101/REVIEWS/201010340/1023

 

 

Robert

[Katuluu]

I'm just not much of a fan of Moriarty, let alone Q. Heck, you might as well include his roll as Harry Potter Sr from Troll for his method acting (randomly dancing and gyrating to "Ain't no cure for the summertime blues") in that disaster for your 1986 recap. For me ihe simply comes across as trying way to hard, and it draws me out of the movie.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

I don't know, I thought he was really believable in that role of the succesfull TV actor who went completely nuts moved to Canada so that he could run for US President on the "I am Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan" ticket.

 

Oh wait . . . . that's real?

 

http://www.mmuuuhp.com/jackryan.htm

[Katuluu]

That's good stuff.

[TheRealMattKain]

I don't know if we're that off on Tootsie. I like the film, but I don't love it and I realize it hasn't aged without issues. Still, it's a well acted movie and it showed up on the AFI top 100 comedies list, so it has its fan base. It wouldn't make my top 5 for 1982, but it wouldn't surprise me if you polled a bunch of people if it still did well.

Number (gulp!) 2 on the 2000 AFI comedy list. TOOTSIE has plenty of fans - no doubt about that. I guess there's two ways of asking the question:

1. Given a movie's historical and cultural context, how is it viewed critically today?

2. If a movie were *released* today (i.e., no one had ever seen or heard of the movie), how would it be viewed critically?

 

In both cases, we probably want to think about how the question would be answered by so-called movie pundits, Academy voters, and everyday viewers.

 

There are, of course, problems with taking the question 1 approach. I do not believe that most critics or Academy members would be able to give an objective opinion about a movie that has been canonized or is considered iconic (but I realize that this is what you're trying to do). Does anyone really believe that most industry insiders (and most importantly for this discussion, Academy voters) would trash or harangue some *classic* film if polled today? Of course not. The AFI lists prove this. This isn't to say that critical opinion doesn't change over time (many movies that were once thought to be irrelevant are now thought of as major or highly influential works) - I just think that for the most part people don't challenge the general consensus when it comes to art. Question 1 also assumes that we must view a movie based not simply on quality, but also on influence (which I totally and completely agree is important). As per your AIRPLANE! comments, I have no qualms admitting that it was an influential film. I simply don't see it as a *good* film (lots of bad movies are influential) or a movie that really holds up today. Going back to TOOTSIE, if we use question 2, I am convinced that it would flop. Try showing TOOTSIE to viewers who have never seen the movie and have never been taught to believe that it's a "classic" comedy. I really don't think it would do so well.

 

Matt Kain

[Mass Haas]

For me, having Ben Kingsley defeat Paul Newman for The Verdict was very painful. It was clear that this was Newman's very best and likely last chance for overdue Oscar gold, and it was not out of sentimentality that he was nominated, anything but -- he nailed the role. I remember the entire audience was just ready to explode if he had won, and if I remember, oddsmakers gave him more than a fighting chance. The movie itself was very good, and actually holds up well today. Here's to you, Paul!

[RobertR]

For me, having Ben Kingsley defeat Paul Newman for The Verdict was very painful. It was clear that this was Newman's very best and likely last chance for overdue Oscar gold, and it was not out of sentimentality that he was nominated, anything but -- he nailed the role. I remember the entire audience was just ready to explode if he had won, and if I remember, oddsmakers gave him more than a fighting chance. The movie itself was very good, and actually holds up well today. Here's to you, Paul!

Yeah Newman had an excellent performance there and would have been a fine choice. Still, all years aren't created equal and sometimes it has as much to do with who you're up against than the quality of your performance. Case in point, Peter O'Toole. His very best shot may have been in Lawrence of Arabia and he had the misfortune of going up against Gregory Peck in To Kill a Mockingbird. Maybe next year I'll do the 70s and we can argue over who should have won Best Picture for 1976.

 

Robert

[RobertR]

Number (gulp!) 2 on the 2000 AFI comedy list. TOOTSIE has plenty of fans - no doubt about that. I guess there's two ways of asking the question:

1. Given a movie's historical and cultural context, how is it viewed critically today?

2. If a movie were *released* today (i.e., no one had ever seen or heard of the movie), how would it be viewed critically?

 

In both cases, we probably want to think about how the question would be answered by so-called movie pundits, Academy voters, and everyday viewers.

 

There are, of course, problems with taking the question 1 approach. I do not believe that most critics or Academy members would be able to give an objective opinion about a movie that has been canonized or is considered iconic (but I realize that this is what you're trying to do). Does anyone really believe that most industry insiders (and most importantly for this discussion, Academy voters) would trash or harangue some *classic* film if polled today? Of course not. The AFI lists prove this. This isn't to say that critical opinion doesn't change over time (many movies that were once thought to be irrelevant are now thought of as major or highly influential works) - I just think that for the most part people don't challenge the general consensus when it comes to art. Question 1 also assumes that we must view a movie based not simply on quality, but also on influence (which I totally and completely agree is important). As per your AIRPLANE! comments, I have no qualms admitting that it was an influential film. I simply don't see it as a *good* film (lots of bad movies are influential) or a movie that really holds up today. Going back to TOOTSIE, if we use question 2, I am convinced that it would flop. Try showing TOOTSIE to viewers who have never seen the movie and have never been taught to believe that it's a "classic" comedy. I really don't think it would do so well.

TOOTSIE today would likely be criticized for making the female characters too passive. And for being outdated in its view of women in the workplace. It definitely wouldn't be seen as cutting edge.

 

Still, I'd be willing to be that it would be received decently critically. It is well acted, up and down the cast. And some of the observations are still pretty sharp and funny. I'm particularly enamored of the scene where Jessica Lange tells Dustin Hoffman in disguise how she'd like a man to approach her, and how he gets a drink thrown in his face later when he actually tries that approach. Would it be received as one of the best movies of the year? No. Would it get a better critical reception than BIG MOMMA'S HOUSE, I've no question about that.

 

I fully agree that removing it from the context of its time is problematic. It's not a timeless classic like the best of Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, the Marx Brothers, DR. STRANGELOVE, or GROUNDHOG DAY, for instance. Heck, it's not as good a guy in drag comedy as SOME LIKE IT HOT. I'd never vote it as high as #2 on a list of great comedies. But I understand why it's an important comedy and appreciate it for the context in which it appeared. Something like BOUDU SAVED FROM DROWNING or THE GREAT DICTATOR are probably more apt comparisons. Of their time, not timeless.

 

Robert

[RobertR]

Moving on to 1983

 

Best Picture

Terms of Endearment

The Big Chill

The Dresser

The Right Stuff

Tender Mercies

 

Other Notables: Educating Rita, Silkwood, Yentl, Fanny and Alexander, Wargames, Return of the Jedi, Trading Places, The Dead Zone, The King of Comedy, Local Hero, Scarface, A Christmas Story, National Lampoon's Vacation, Videodrome, Zelig

 

My Pick of the Nominees: The Right Stuff

My Pick Overall: The Right Stuff with the caveat that I haven't seen Fanny and Alexander.

 

My Thoughts: I'd imagine that Terms of Endearment and The Right Stuff would be nominated again if the awards were held today. And that The Big Chill would stand no chance. I doubt The Dresser would make it either and Tender Mercies would be iffy. By reputation, Fanny and Alexander would almost certainly be a replacement. Looking at the above group of nominated films and other notables, I'd consider it an average to slightly above average year. Very good year for David Croenenberg.

 

Of the nominated films, I haven't seen The Dresser or The Big Chill, but I have seen the rest. Tender Mercies, which I watched a couple of weeks back, has aged well, partly because of its low key nature and partly because of Robert Duvall's terrific lead performance. It's been awhile since I watched Terms of Endearment, but even with all of the soap opera elements it's a well acted entertaining movie. That said, the movie that most resonated with me was The Right Stuff which was both mythic and myth puncturing all at the same time with a real sense of danger.

 

Best Actor

Robert Duvall - Tender Mercies

Tom Courtenay - The Dresser

Albert Finney - The Dresser

Michael Caine - Educating Rita

Tom Conti - Reuben, Reuben

 

Other notables: Robert DeNiro - The King of Comedy, Eddie Murphy - Trading Places, Christopher Walken - The Dead Zone, Al Pacino - Scarface, Richard Farnsworth - The Grey Fox, Eric Roberts - Star 80, Woody Allen - Zelig, Matthew Broderick - Wargames, Ed Harris - The Right Stuff, James Woods - Videodrome

 

My Pick: Robert Duvall - Tender Mercies

 

My thoughts: Considering I haven't seen The Dresser and Reuben, Reuben I'm at a distinct disadvantage when assessing this category. Then again, it's never stopped me before. Probably the biggest surprise to me is that DeNiro didn't snag a nomination. He'd almost certainly do so today.

 

That said, if you want to see Robert Duvall effortlessly carry a movie and cover a full gamut of emotions for a complex person, Tender Mercies is a showcase of a movie. It's one of his best performances and one where he doesn't need long speeches to explain his character. Good choice by the Academy.

 

Best Actress

Shirley MacLaine - Terms of Endearment

Julie Walters - Educating Rita

Meryl Streep - Silkwood

Debra Winger - Terms of Endearment

Jane Alexander - Testament

 

Other Notables: Bonnie Bedelia - Heart Like a Wheel, Barbara Streisand - Yentl, Tess Harper - Tender Mercies, Mary Steenburgen - Cross Creek, Jennifer Beals - Flashdance

 

My Pick: Shirley MacLaine - Terms of Endearment

 

My thoughts: There's a little scenery chewing there by MacLaine but it's a good performance in an atypical role. Probably her second best performance with The Apartment being her pinnacle. A solid enough group, although I'm surprised that Bonnie Bedelia didn't snag a nomination over Jane Alexander. No doubt that Debra Winger would be pushed as a Supporting Actress, and probably win, in modern Hollywood. I've never had much love for Yentl, but I'm sure it has its constituency and I'm slightly surprised that Streisand didn't get a nomination in retrospect.

 

Best Supporting Actor

Jack Nicholson - Terms of Endearment

Rip Torn - Cross Creek

Sam Shepard - The Right Stuff

John Lithgow - Terms of Endearment

Charles Durning - To Be or Not to Be

 

Other Notables: Don Ameche - Trading Places, John Lithgow - Twilight Zone: The Movie, Jerry Lewis - The King of Comedy, Burt Lancaster - Local Hero, Darren McGavin - A Christmas Story, any random cast member of The Right Stuff

 

My Pick: Sam Shepard - The Right Stuff

 

Thoughts: Charles Durning was nominated for To Be or Not to Be? That's just wrong. And I like Charles Durning.

 

Lots of memorable supporting performances here. You can probably make a compelling case for everyone but Durning. I do suspect that it came down to Nicholson vs. Shepard though and it's hard to go wrong with either. Nicholson is, of course, a scene stealer and someone who uses his charisma and confidence well and an ex-astronaut is a great fit for him. That said, Shepard's mythmaking as Chuck Yeager is outstanding and memorable. Arguably, it's not as hard a part as others, but he just nails it.

 

Best Supporting Actress

Linda Hunt - The Year of Living Dangerously

Glenn Close - The Big Chill

Alfre Woodard - Cross Creek

Cher - Silkwood

Amy Irving - Yentl

 

Other Notables: Ellen Barkin - Tender Mercies

 

My Pick: Cher - Silkwood

 

Thoughts: Gimmick alert. Linda Hunt playing an Asian man is something of a stunt. It's a good performance, but in a stronger year I don't think it stands a chance.

 

I don't feel strongly about this category. Looks like a weak year to me. I suspect that it would be easier to vote for Cher now in retrospect than it would have been in 1984 when there still were questions about whether this was all some sort of attention getting gimmick from her.

 

Not the worst or best year of the 1980s. The acting awards don't look unreasonable in retrospect. OTOH, shutting out Fanny and Alexander and Ingmar Bergman at the Oscars certainly looks completely indefensible in retrospect. Screenplay or Director would have been completely defensible awards and would have been looked at well in retrospect.

 

Other thoughts about 1983. Tom Cruise became a star with Risky Business. Matthew Broderick too, although there was a time when you thought he would have been bigger than he became. Eddie Murphy further cemented himself. And Michael Keaton had a hit in Mr. Mom.

 

I'd like to think this is the year that started the derailment of John Landis. Trading Places is arguably his pinnacle, but that was followed immediately by Twilight Zone: The Movie. Say what you want about Roman Polanski, how John Landis stayed out of jail is a complete mystery to me and the bigger miscarriage of justice. Then again, I look at his filmography and it really isn't until the 90s that he stops getting significant projects.

 

Robert

[Katuluu]

Say what you want about Roman Polanski, how John Landis stayed out of jail is a complete mystery to me and the bigger miscarriage of justice.

 

Was it ever even proven that Landis had any malicious intent? It was reckless and stupid to be sure, but I don't think he ever wanted to grievously cause harm on Morrow or those kids. You simply can't say the same for Polanski.