2008 Vent Thread (part 1)

[kmcasper23]

This game did kind of make me feel sick the rest of the day. A game with a lead that we should have won. Too many of those last year and this kind of had the feel of those blown games last year. I don't think we can do this too many times this year since unfortunately the Chubs are playing some good baseball early on this year and in a close race we can't afford to lose many games like this.

[jazzytrav]

1. The fact that Fingers wasn't a traditional closer more proves the point that Gagne shouldn't have been used. Did the Brewers run Fingers out there every time there was a save opportunity so they could build his stats? That's my biggest beef with bullpen management...thinking that if it's a statistical save opportunity, you absolutely HAVE to pitch your closer. If the game was that easy, we wouldn't need managers in the first place.

 

2. Those pitches weren't flukes. He was leaving pitches up in the strike zone, like a tired pitcher would normally do, the entire inning. Plus his velocity was down. There really is no denying that he was tired.

 

3. Just because Simmons or Maddux or Castro say something to Ned to express disagreement doesn't mean that Ned listens. It could be everyone's fault, or it could be Ned's fault. But it can't be the fault of just one of the assistants by himself. Ned is the head guy, so if he takes idiotic advice from Maddux, then Ned is also an idiot for taking that advice. The reason Ned gets so much more grief about game decisions is because no matter what, he's involved in them.

[JJHardy7]

2. Those pitches weren't flukes. He was leaving pitches up in the strike zone, like a tired pitcher would normally do, the entire inning. Plus his velocity was down. There really is no denying that he was tired.

 

Didn't Gagne say that he wasn't tired? I didn't see it or read the quote, but I've seen similar posts stating this. Can anyone confirm this?

[Thurston Fluff]

3. Just because Simmons or Maddux or Castro say something to Ned to express disagreement doesn't mean that Ned listens. It could be everyone's fault, or it could be Ned's fault. But it can't be the fault of just one of the assistants by himself. Ned is the head guy, so if he takes idiotic advice from Maddux, then Ned is also an idiot for taking that advice. The reason Ned gets so much more grief about game decisions is because no matter what, he's involved in them

 

true it goes with the territory but so does the success. If you want to give credit to maddux as a pitching coach then the same amount of blame for not knowing his charges should go to him. Conversly if you wish to give Ned credit for revitalizing the careers of all the pitchers instead of Maddux then it's fair to blame him for the bad times. To me you have to either blame both or give credit to both. So far I see Ned getting the blame but not he credit. Shouldn't he get some credit for taking Mota, someone run out on NY for a bag of balls, and using him so masterfully as to have revitalized his otherwise decling career so far this year? Especially when you consider his past success was psoobily PED enhanced.

[ozzybourne]

It's frustrating that Ned hasn't learned a thing about managing a bullpen over the years.

I don't mean to single you out, but it's frustrating that comments like this are still made.

--why? this is a fan forum, and ned is fair game.

 

You know that when Maddux picks up the phone, calls out to the pen, he asks Castro..."Is so and so available today?" Depending on response, decisions are made.

--these decisions are made in pre-game meetings. they know which 'so and so' is available on a day to day basis. that call from maddux is telling castro to get specific pitchers warmed up.

 

[zzzmanwitz]

We aren't on pace for 100 wins!!!

[sheethead]

Backupcatchers wrote:

---

Conversly if you wish to give Ned credit for revitalizing the careers of all the pitchers instead of Maddux then it's fair to blame him for the bad times. To me you have to either blame both or give credit to both. So far I see Ned getting the blame but not he credit. Shouldn't he get some credit for taking Mota, someone run out on NY for a bag of balls, and using him so masterfully as to have revitalized his otherwise decling career so far this year? Especially when you consider his past success was psoobily PED enhanced.

The question about whether Ned gets the credit is a good one. Personally, every time I listen to an interview, or read some quotes in the paper, he sounds or reads like the opposite of intelligent. It is hard to give the opposite of intelligent credit for anything, other than dumb luck.

[Oldcity]

I think the Cubs have outscored the Pirates by something like 400-10 in six games.

[Thurston Fluff]

Personally, every time I listen to an interview, or read some quotes in the paper, he sounds or reads like the opposite of intelligent.

 

I think that has to do more with a personal dislike of him as a manager than it does him actually sounding stupid. Nothing wrong with that mind you it's simply your perception of him but I've never really found that to be the case. I think sometimes he doesn't explain his meaning very well to the press and perhaps the press doesn't do a very good job of putting some of his comments in context. Not that I blame the media for that either they need easy to read sound bites and he doesn't give that type of bite. It's kind of like Farve. If you listen to him he'll give a long rambling expalination for the simplest of questions. Then later like the "It's notmy job to help Rodgers," quote of a few years ago it gets taken out of context. What Farve said was it's Rodgers job to ask if he has questions. He has to be the pro yet what it sounded like was a prema donna not taking the time to help others.

[jazzytrav]

2. Those pitches weren't flukes. He was leaving pitches up in the strike zone, like a tired pitcher would normally do, the entire inning. Plus his velocity was down. There really is no denying that he was tired.

 

Didn't Gagne say that he wasn't tired? I didn't see it or read the quote, but I've seen similar posts stating this. Can anyone confirm this?

Yost said he asked Gagne if he could go. Gagne said he could. Regardless, it's the manager's decision to put him in there.

 

Most of the time, an athlete isn't going to even know their tired unless it's one of those situations where they're huffing and puffing. It might seem odd , but I believe using a reliever for 10 less innings in April-August can make him stronger in September. When you pitch someone multiple days in a row without rest, it can have even more of an impact. That's the big picture, not this tiny little picture that says save opportunity = closer.

[Thurston Fluff]

Most of the time, an athlete isn't going to even know their tired unless it's one of those situations where they're huffing and puffing.

 

Again it's diofferant with relievers. They do know it's part of thier job to know their body and relay that information. Especially when it's a veteran like Gagne who has been around long enough to understand his body and how to play for an entire season. Gagne knows better than anyone on the staff how he can and should be used. It's up to him to convey that message to the manager/coaches. I'm quite sure Ned has talked to him about that very subject before he ever stepped on the field in spring training.

[mletto157]

It didn't seem to me like his velocity was down... 91-93 consistently seems pretty normal for Gagne nowadays. I also didn't think either of those were terrible pitches and most of the time wouldn't be homeruns to those very same players.

[jazzytrav]

Especially when it's a veteran like Gagne who has been around long enough to understand his body and how to play for an entire season. Gagne knows better than anyone on the staff how he can and should be used. It's up to him to convey that message to the manager/coaches. I'm quite sure Ned has talked to him about that very subject before he ever stepped on the field in spring training.

Please don't take this the wrong way Backupcatchers, as I've always respected your opinion. But considering Gagne's issues over the last few years, wouldn't it be safe to say that he really doesn't know how to play for an entire season? I wouldn't trust Gagne's opinion in this matter at all. He's not being paid to decide when he can pitch, Ned is getting paid for that. Maddux and Castro are getting paid for that. Doctors are getting paid for that. Gagne is getting paid to pitch when he's told, not to give his opinion. What's the use of having a manager? Hell, I could've done all the research required of going into the bullpen and asking him how he feels.

 

He hasn't played an entire season in quite awhile, and last year he crumbled in August (which could also be because he went to the Sox). He doesn't really know how his body will react to his injuries over a 162 game season, so maybe he should be a little more cautious. There are some areas of life where you can push it and see where the limit is, but in this case the limit could make him $10 million on the 60-day.

[SeriesFinale]

I want to vent about this article talking about the possibility of an all-Chicago World Series based on the current standings here in mid-April.

 

Jeez, guys, where's the article about the possibility of a Marlins-Orioles Series? I mean, they'd both be in the playoffs if only the season was 18 games long!

[PKBadger]

Why the hell is Gagne even holding a baseball right now? YOST!!!!!!

[markedman5]

Why in the hell does Yost decide to pitch a guy who hasn't pitched in a week and hasn't had a good outing all year in the 9th inning of a tie game?

 

Riske is more then rested and so is MCClung.

[brewmann04]

This team has all the makings of a 500 ball club at best. They are just not that good

[Ennder]

The team needs to start hitting but the pitching and defense is looking very good. Yost is going to cost us 3-4 games this year and that is probably what we'll miss the playoffs by. I just hope Melvin cans his behind before next year.

[iluvlamp]

YAY TURNBOW YAY!

[kmcasper23]

Anyone can hit a 90 mph fastball thrown right down mainstreet with no movement on it at all! Why in the hell would you put him in that position Yost!

[twobrewers]

Of our first 8 batter tonight, Corey Hart is batting .271. The next highest is Braun at .237.

 

Of course, I suppose we could put this in the silver lining thread as well.

[mastershake76]

Most hated figures in today's game:

 

1) Ned Yost

2) Derrick Turnblow

3) LaRussa

4) Troy Glaus and his stupid ugly mug

5) Eric Gagne (just because I had to watch him warm up, ostensibly to pitch in a 5th straight game)

 

Rickie would have almost certainly cracked the top 5 had he not finally gotten a hit tonight.

 

This team is hard to like right now.

[Bnowell4evr]

Im boycotting the Brewers until Turnbow is released.

[bobskube]

Yes, we all know Turnbow is garbage and Yost is a subpar manager.

 

However, Bill Hall's AB infuriates me. They were unintentionally walking him to set up the DP and the selfish piece of garbage wanted to be a hero instead of taking the walk. It was so obvious.

[Invader3K]

I still don't get why people are blaming Yost...the offense has been woefully anemic lately. They need to wake up and start converting more runners. You aren't often going to beat a team like the Cardinals with only 3 runs.