Why can't Estrada find a job?

[adambr2]

I'm a little puzzled about Johnny Estrada.

Granted, the guy wasn't very popular in Milwaukee. He doesn't walk much and was always near the bottom of the league in defensive statistics.

But, the guy is an established .280 catcher who can give you 10 HR or so a year. If you look around the league, there just aren't many of those. We didn't get one of those to replace Estrada when we signed Kendall. That's leaps and bounds better than Munson.

So there is an MLB catcher out there that is pretty much good for .280 and 10 HR who can't get a job with any of the 30 MLB clubs right now? Not even as a backup???

That's just....a little shocking to me. I mean, Estrada must just be a horrible clubhouse cancer and/or distraction. There just has to be more to Estrada than we know. No one wants anything to do with him.

[logan82]

He may hit .280 over his career, but his OBP is .320 but that may be inflated by a couple of his early years.

 

he has a reputation as a poor defender

 

he was dumped by a team that just traded for him

 

can't stick with any team(not really his fault in most cases)

 

reputation for being poor at handling a pitching staff

 

There really are numerous reasons, but nothing really tangible other than the fact he can't take a walk.

 

On a side note, does anybody ever recall Estrada being enthusiastic during an interview? He never seemed like he was happy to be in Milwaukee.

[logan82]

Sorry to double post, but this thread should really be titled "why did it take so long for Estrada to get a job and why so cheap?" That is what I took the thread to mean.

[adambr2]

The Nats did sign him? I missed it if they did.

[Ennder]

The Nats did sign him? I missed it if they did.

 

Yeah they did but not until Lo Duca hurt his knee so they had no other choice but to get another C who could play every day.

[sgtcluels]

My guess is that any rumors about a Locker room Cancer are confirmed when he was one and done with the young crew. He probably jawed himself out of a chance at any good club, minus emergency pick ups.

[hauser42]

Nats needed to take a gamble on Estrada since they are desperate for a catcher.

Three teams have now come to the conclusion that Johnny is a clubhouse cancer, so it will haunt him the rest of his playing days till he makes a huge change. Sometimes it is just not a good mix, but three different times would make it seem like it is the individual and not the team.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

I recall watching a game on MLBTV last year with the Houston crew and they offered this insight on Estrada . . .

 

"Scouts are in complete agreement about Johnny, He just keeps getting fatter and lazier."

 

Methinks that they might have something there.

[1992casey]

The Nats did sign him? I missed it if they did.

Two days ago: WASH signs Johnny Estrada (1yr/1.25M)

 

[Thurston Fluff]

Just my 2 cents worth here but how a catcher handles a pitching staff has sort of become an aspect of interest with me lately.

Catcher, as a position, is a bit of an anomoly in baseball. For the most part all positions share a certain amount of empirical evidence for all to see and debate. Catcher is the one position where stats and visable defense are secondary concerns. Their main job is to handle the pitchers, know the opposing hitters and call the right pitch at the right time. It's been publically stated by both Arizona and Milwaukee that Estrada didn't call the type of game either team wanted him to. So it may be ok for a backup catcher to be light hitting or weak at throwing out runners but it is unforgivable to call a bad game. If he sucks at the main part of his job over a period of several years now it should hardly be surprising he's struggling to get a job.

[adambr2]

I do wonder how much our pitchers struggles were due to how the game was called. Our #3, #4, and #5 starters heading into opening day all finished with ERA's over 5.00, which was completely unforseen and one reason we fell short of the playoffs.

 

I'd be interested to see what the splits were for our pitchers with Estrada versus Miller.

 

I think that pitchers know how to call a game, too, however, though that rarely gets brought up. Pitchers know their strengths and weaknesses better than anyone.

A catcher just makes a suggestion, the pitcher has to approve it.

[TooLiveBrew]

A catcher just makes a suggestion, the pitcher has to approve it.

This is what always baffles me about the 'calls a good game' pat on the back for catchers. It just seems like something for which you give credit when you don't have much else good to say about a C.

[Ennder]

Team ERA was 4.44 with Estrada at C. 4.46 with Miller.

 

That stat doesn't begin to tell the whole picture but it is the only one I had available to me.

[Tbadder]

I've always though that the pitcher and manager or pitching coach should be in wireless connectio, and that the manager or pitching coach should make all the calls. Calling a pitch falls under strategy and management should be responsible for that aspect of the game. Players should be responsible for execution only. Just MO

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"A catcher just makes a suggestion, the pitcher has to approve it." - adambr2

 

"This is what always baffles me about the 'calls a good game' pat on the back for catchers. It just seems like something for which you give credit when you don't have much else good to say about a C." - TLB

 

Both very well said, fellas.

 

I've always held that, as catchers go, the worse a hitter you are, the better you call a game...and don't forget how well you're suddenly able to block balls in the dirt....like Keith Osik, only he was pretty bad.

 

Conversely, if you're a slugging catcher, you're probably labeled as a defensive liability. Like Russell Martin, only he's pretty good.

[logan82]

GenoSeligPrieb wrote:

I've always held that, as catchers go, the worse a hitter you are, the better you call a game...and don't forget how well you're suddenly able to block balls in the dirt....like Keith Osik, only he was pretty bad.

 

Conversely, if you're a slugging catcher, you're probably labeled as a defensive liability. Like Russell Martin, only he's pretty good.

Estrada's problem was that he was neither a good slugging/hitting catcher or a good defender/game caller.

[EsoxLazer]

I think a big part of calling a good game is keeping a pitcher in rhythm. If a pitcher has to constantly shake off their catcher it can throw off their timing and rhythm which can have an impact, especially for pitchers who like to work quickly out on the mound. I had a chance to speak with one of the pitchers on last years staff and I got the impression that the way Estrada called games was a big concern among the pitching staff.

[Thurston Fluff]

"A catcher just makes a suggestion, the pitcher has to approve it." - adambr2

 

"This is what always baffles me about the 'calls a good game' pat on the back for catchers. It just seems like something for which you give credit when you don't have much else good to say about a C." - TLB

 

Both very well said, fellas.

 

I've always held that, as catchers go, the worse a hitter you are, the better you call a game...and don't forget how well you're suddenly able to block balls in the dirt....like Keith Osik, only he was pretty bad.

 

Conversely, if you're a slugging catcher, you're probably labeled as a defensive liability. Like Russell Martin, only he's pretty good.

 

If a player sucks at all the visable stuff and still keeps a job for several years there has to be a reason for that. Some might think it's a stupid GM but I think it has to do with them having some sort of quality improtant to the position.

 

As far as the pitcher being able to call his own pitch while true it isn't their main job for a reason. Catchers are supposed to know the hitters and call the appropriate pitch to to take advantage of weaknesses or avoid strengths. Pitchers who do know the hitters may be able to do that but it is and always has been part of the catcher's job description. Quite frankly I think the pitcher has enough things to think about keeping his mechanics right, managing the runners on base ect than which pitch in which location should be thrown to which hitter at what time. All the catcher has to do is catch the pitch and occasionally throw to second base. Not that it doesn't take some thought but since everyone in baseball has deemed it the catchers job to know the opposing hitters I'm assuming there is a reason for it.

[lukevan]

It's the pitcher's job to know what pitch to throw and where's it going but it's the catcher's job to call the "correct" pitch (according to scouting, coaching strategy, quality of "stuff") and give the correct target (inside/outside, high/low, ball/strike). Basically, it's not the pitcher or the catcher, but both who should be "calling a good game." Catchers who are good "game-callers" help pitchers stay in rhythm, but they also know what works to get hitters out as well or better than pitchers do. The effects aren't really tangible, a boost in team ERA could casually yet understandably be credited mostly to the pitchers have "up" years without a thought given to the "baseball smarts" of the team catcher.

 

Maybe if our pitchers' ERAs are lower across the board in 2008 we could point to the Kendall/Estrada factor, however we may also point to an improved defense as affecting pitchers' ERAs. It's a difficult quality to quantify.