Can we finally end this myth of AL superiority?

[JohnBriggs12]

Johann Santana and Dan Haren, two AL All Stars are now in the NL.

 

Most of the brighest young stars in the game like Fielder, Braun, Holliday, H. Ramirez, Wright, Howard, Utley, Tulowitzki, Pence, and so on are National Leaguers.

 

Isn't it time to end this myth that somehow the NL is the JV league?

[biedergb]

I think the myth persists as long as the Yankee and Red Sox keep outspending everyone. They (and maybe the Angels now) are the AL. The NL has free spenders (Mets, Cubs, Dodgers) but not to the point of those guys. And now that the Yanks had a run of W.S. appearances, only now to be followed by the Red Sox, it'll be some time before the NL gets is (just) due.

[whizkid]

The only test is interleague play. The last 2 years haven't been good for the NL. Up until then it was even.

[colbyjack]

I think the myth persists as long as the Yankee and Red Sox keep outspending everyone.

 

Is it really about outspending other teams? I think it has more to do with winning (wasn't the AL vastly superior in interleague play?), and it wouldn't hurt for the NL to turn the tides on the AL in the All-Star Game for a good decade.

 

While the NL has won the World Series three of the past seven years, there hasn't been one, dominant team over that span (The D-Backs, Cardinals and Marlins have all have some pretty dramatic ups and downs). The myth may not be as strong today had the Braves been more of a true dynasty throughout the 90s in a time that the Yankees completely dominated the game.

 

The success of teams with a wealth of budding young stars such as the Brewers, Rockies, Phillies and even the Marlins will go a long way in helping remove this myth, but those teams need to prove they can be successful over time before the national perception is changed.

 

Or ESPN can move their home base of operations to St. Louis http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[Thurston Fluff]

The AL was clearly the better league the last few years. I think this season will show the NL has caught up quite a bit. Perceptions tend to take longer to change than reality. So expect the AL superiority belief to be around for another year or two.

[joepepsi]

I think it was pretty clear the NL in 2007 was much improved over 2006. The NL may lack the superior teams of the AL, (Indians, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels), but it's a more balanced league. I agree the NL is loaded with the wonderful young talent. The AL has several excellent young players as well, but not as many as the National League.

 

While the AL East is often cited as the powerhouse division in baseball, it's worth pointing out the Yankees and Red Sox get to play the D-Rays and Orioles 35 times a year.

[Brian the Automator]

Johann Santana and Dan Haren, two AL All Stars are now in the NL.

 

Most of the brighest young stars in the game like Fielder, Braun, Holliday, H. Ramirez, Wright, Howard, Utley, Tulowitzki, Pence, and so on are National Leaguers.

 

Isn't it time to end this myth that somehow the NL is the JV league?

Santana and Haren are now in the NL, Miguel Cabrera's now in the AL. I don't put much stock in Colorado hitting, just as I put more stock in Colorado pitching.

 

To me, you have to look at interleague play (the largest sample size we have of comparing the two leagues head-to-head) and world series results. You should also look eat each league's ERA+ and OPS+ from season to season. I think that right now, the AL still has the better talent.

 

[Team Canada]

What does having some bright young players have to do with what teams are better?

 

I wouldn't call it a myth. AL has dominated interleague play, and on the whole has been better, regardless of which stars are in which league.

[naivin]

Johann Santana and Dan Haren, two AL All Stars are now in the NL.

 

Most of the brighest young stars in the game like Fielder, Braun, Holliday, H. Ramirez, Wright, Howard, Utley, Tulowitzki, Pence, and so on are National Leaguers.

 

Isn't it time to end this myth that somehow the NL is the JV league?

That's an impressive list, but here's another one...

 

Ichiro, ARod, Ordonez, Ortiz, Jeter, Halladay, Crawford, Hunter, Sabathia, Verlander, Sizemore, Cabrera, Carmona, Victor Martinez, Guererro, Young and so on are all American Leaguers. We can list players all day long. Reality is that the AL is still better.

[rluzinski]

A myth? All the evidence I have seen suggests otherwise. Here's a very comprehensive 3 part study from 2006 that explores this topic (before the AL once again wooped up the NL in 2007):

Is the AL Really Superior? (Part 1)

Is the AL Really Superior? (Part 2)

Is the AL Really Superior? (Part 3)

"While the above analyses are somewhat problematic for various reasons, taken in their entirety, it is clear that the conventional wisdom with regard to the current AL dominance in inter-league play is correct - namely that the overall or average talent in the AL is likely much better than that in the NL. However, it appears that most or all of that advantage is in the offense and that the quality of pitching is roughly equivalent in both leagues."

Having a couple of star pitchers shifting to the NL certainly closes the gap but it doesn't nearly erase it.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The AL had 4-5 teams that would probably have been better than any team in the NL (Red Sox, Yankee, Indians, Tigers, and Angels). While the AL also had some true doormats, it can be argued that the number of 'solid' NL team records were inflated due to them playing against each other. The NL looked alot like what the typical NFL season resembles - 80% mediocrity, 10% really good, 10% really bad.

 

The NL central was widely regarded as the weakest division in baseball, even though it has 6 teams playing in it. what would the record of any one of the 4-5 quality AL teams have been had they played in that division?

[pete]

I think it all depends on how you define 'superiority.' When you have two teams with giant payrolls, that skews things. Maybe dollar for dollar or some other measure, the NL is better. The AL still has some fat wallets. I don't think the sample size of interleague play is large enough either.

[Gopher74]

Is it really about outspending other teams? I think it has more to do with winning (wasn't the AL vastly superior in interleague play?)

The two aren't related? I wonder what the Red Sox record would be without their huge payroll?

[TerraceReserved]

I don't think the sample size of interleague play is large enough either.

 

I disagree. In the links rluz proved, MGL had this to say:

 

2006: AL leads 128 to 75.

That is quite an impressive record, even in "only" 203 games. One standard deviation due to chance alone is almost seven wins. Given that the American League is 26.5 wins over .500, it is nearly impossible that the two leagues are currently equal (or that the NL is better) in overall talent.

I think that those 203 games and the 242 in the year before when the AL dominated also are a large enough sample to work with.

[logan82]

The gap isn't a myth and never will be as long as the AL has an average salary $25M higher than the NL. Even taking NYY and BOS out the gap is $10M per team.

[joshjs]

If I have to choose between watching a random AL game and a random NL game, I'm going to pick the NL game. The style of play is better and there's a better competitive balance across the entire league. I couldn't care less whether the average team in the AL is better than the average team in the NL.

 

It's sort of like how college basketball is better than NBA basketball. It's more interesting.

[dadofandrew]

It's tough to argue with the 2006 interleague mark. What was the 2007 record?

[DuWayne Steurer]

In the long run this type of stuff always evens out. Look at the 13 straight Super Bowl wins by the NFC from 84 til 97, and now the AFC is in the middle of a sustained run of success (mostly due to the Patriots, but still).

 

The AL might be better, but in a short 7 game series, most anything can happen, see the '06 83 win Cardinals for proof.

[Fear The Chorizo]

So, is it safe to say that if Bud hadn't moved the Brewers to the NL a few years back that this thread's title would be "Can we continue discussing how much better the AL is than the NL?"

[Ennder]

If I have to choose between watching a random AL game and a random NL game, I'm going to pick the NL game. The style of play is better and there's a better competitive balance across the entire league. I couldn't care less whether the average team in the AL is better than the average team in the NL.

 

It's sort of like how college basketball is better than NBA basketball. It's more interesting.

 

I'll take the opposite side, I'd rather watch the league that doesn't' have a guy who can't hit in the lineup every day (I HATE watching pitchers bat). As much as people complain about the Red Sox and Yankees I still prefer the league with them in it, they are sort of the bad guys you cheer against in a movie. The NL has become the NFL, so much mediocrity that it just isn't fun to watch random games anymore (ok not quite as bad as the NFL).

 

Of course since I'm a Brewer fan I still pay much more attention to the NL since they are the games that matter more to me, I just think the AL is the more fun league.

[ELCABALLO45]

I would rather watch a NL game hands down. The AL games take FOREVER. The DH rule is the dumbest thing ever invented. You would think if you were a major league calliber pitcher you should be able to hit a little. And if I was in charge of the pitchers I would have them hit more... Yes pitching is number 1 but geez... If you get a guy like a YO! or a Micah Owens its such a good weapon to have.

The AL is very TOP HEAVY. Red Sox,Tigers,Indians,Angels and Yankees. Look at the bottom... Rays,Orioles,Rangers,A's(now),Royals. You can't say one team would do better in this league and this team would do better in this league because they play completly differnt kinds of baseball. Take the Red Sox... Whats David Ortiz going to do? Play 1st? Well what about Youkalis? Play 3rd? Well what about Lowell?. And yes its easier to pitch in the NL... but don't tell Barry Zito that.

I would LOVE I mean LOVE to see Johan get lit up and hear what everyone else who ripps the NL has to say.

[twobrewers]

Interleague records

2007 versus 2006

Attendance - 2007: 8,795,939 vs. 2006 8,592,482

Att. average - 2007: 34,905 vs. 2006: 34,097

AL win % - 2007: .544 vs. 2006: .611

NL win % - 2007: .456 vs. 2006: .389

AL batting - 2007: .268 vs. 2006: .283

NL batting - 2007: .281 vs. 2006: .261

Sorry if that isn't formatted very well.