Johan Santana to NYM, Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey to MIN [Merged: Mets sign Johan (7 yr, $150M); see reply #83]

[sbrylski]

Well Denard Spahn was for the last few years, and Gomez is still probably 2 years away. A lot can happen in that time.

 

I would think Gomez would most likely start in AAA next season, and might get big league time. He's very young, but he's already had a full season in AA and spent all of last season at AAA or in the majors.

[RockCoCougars]

I've gotta agree with the poster who mentioned a Hughes Santana straight up deal would have been better for the Twins. Even a Lester package from Boston would have been preferable to this. Why did they make this deal without getting Martinez? They had better hope that Guerra turns into Rick Aguilera and Humber turns into Kevin Tapani, or they got royally screwed. Gomez doesn't seem like a sure thing by any means.

 

Minnesota teams certainly don't have a very good track record when it comes to trading their stars. At least not since Knoblauch.

[TooLiveBrew]

spent all of last season at AAA or in the majors.

 

Turned in a nice performance in the PCL. .360+ OBP/.400+ SLG from a 21-y-o.

[colbyjack]

I completly agree that you can never have enough pitching depth, but I'm a believer in quality over quanity.

 

If you read a few of my posts above, you'll see that I'm with you in the quality over quantity pack. However, there's nothing wrong with stockpiling arms.

 

Minnesota teams certainly don't have a very good track record when it comes to trading their stars. At least not since Knoblauch.

 

Those that remember the AJ Pierzynski deal would beg to differ with you.

 

And if you choose to argue that Pierzysnki wasn't a star, neither was Knoblauch.

 

What other trades have they botched?

[ELCABALLO45]

From DM

 

"It might have been better for him to stay in the American League, but look at how many players have already switched leagues this year," Melvin said. "And it might end up being a good thing because if he had stayed in Minnesota, we would have faced him anyway because Minnesota is our rival in Interleague. Now the Cubs will maybe have to face him once or twice, and the Cardinals and the Astros and the Reds. Maybe it's better for us. We had to face him anyway. Now they have to face him."

[ELCABALLO45]

I think the more relevant question is this: Can the Cubs as currently constructed beat the Mets in the NLCS after this trade?

 

Of course they can. It'd be a 7 game series.

[RockCoCougars]

And if you choose to argue that Pierzysnki wasn't a star, neither was Knoblauch.

I disagree, Pierzysnki was nowhere close to the fan favorite that Knoblauch was at the time. Knoblauch was easily the second most popular Twin behind Puckett and when Puckett retired he owned the town for two years. When he turned down the Twins contract offer and demanded a trade, it was a huge story up in the Cities (I lived there at the time) At the time Knoblauch was a much better player than Pierzysnki ever was, and was right up there with Alomar as the best second baseman in the league.

What other trades have they botched?

Umm, Rod Carew for nothing, Randy Moss for nothing, Stephon Marbury for nothing, Kevin Garnett for (probably) nothing....need I go on?

[logan82]

RockCoCougars wrote:

Umm, Rod Carew for nothing, Randy Moss for nothing, Stephon Marbury for nothing, Kevin Garnett for (probably) nothing....need I go on?

Wow, I didn't know Moss, Marbury, and Garnett played baseball. Learn something new every day.

[danzig6767]

The Mets didn't just give up those four prospects, they also are going to have to pay Santana a massive amount of money, that has to be factored in. The Mets in effect gave up those four kids for the right to negotiate a contract with Santana because he wasn't going to waive his no trade clause without getting a new contract.

[TooLiveBrew]

I disagree, Pierzysnki was nowhere close to the fan favorite that Knoblauch was at the time.

 

Popularity has little or nothing to do with trade value or value on the field.

[Invader3K]

Well, the real question involving the Brewers, is whether or not this trade being finalized will create interest in the Brewers' surplus of pitchers.

[NYChez]

Well, the real question involving the Brewers, is whether or not this trade being finalized will create interest in the Brewers' surplus of pitchers.

This won't be the case because the teams interested in Vargas or Bush are different than the teams that were interested in Santana.

 

[Thurston Fluff]

Well, the real question involving the Brewers, is whether or not this trade being finalized will create interest in the Brewers' surplus of pitchers.

That assumes there really is a surplus of pitching here.

 

As far as the trade goes it looks as though the Twins are taking a chance that two or more of those guys will turn into relativley high level players down the road vs the relatively sure thing they could have had in either the Boston or Yankee deals. If they end up with average players the Mets will have the better of the deal. If two or more of them play near allstar level then not so much. Either way for the Mets, who are in win now mode, the deal looks to be at worst win win.

[patrickgpe]

The brewers right now have 13 pitchers who i believe to be out of options and has to make the team ( gagne, turnbow, riske, torres, mota, shouse, sheets, yo, suppan, CV, bush, cappy, and vargas). I think it would be fine if we can't get a decent trade to break camp with that staff, and parra in the minors. A trade can easily be swung when someone goes down or you have backup if one of our own goes down. I wouldn't be in a huge rush to trade for trades sake.

[hauser42]

Mets certainly got a great deal for the best pitcher in the game. Twins did not get a enough value for Johan but they did get hope for the future. Not sure that those prospects are going to make it but what can you do when the two biggest bidders have cooled off on getting Johan.

 

Mets look great on paper but I still see some questions in the rotation. Pedro has been battling health issues for a while now, Oliver Perez has never put the whole thing together, and can John Maine do the same as he did last year. Delgado needs to also bounce back for the lineup to be solid, and at his age he is no lock.

[colbyjack]

My point of Pierzynski vs. Knoblauch had to do with the actual return they got. Francisco Liriano, Boof Bonser and Joe Nathan was an incredible haul for the Twins. That trade alone may be the greatest fleecing in the past 5-7 years.

 

And I too thought the conversation was about the Minnesota Twins, not Minnesota sports in general.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I know I am the only one on this board who thinks this way but I would have traded any and all minor leaguers including throwing in Carlos and Parra and dished out the cash to obtain Santana. He is the best pitcher out there bar none. Than with a little bit of luck, I would have traded Sheets around the all-star break to the highest bidder.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Oh how I love it when Belling talks baseball.

 

He's discussing the Santana trade, called Minnesota a joke of a franchise, stated that they always just "give up", never having made any attempt to re-sign Santana or to keep any other of their star players.

 

(Pluswhise there's no good restaurants in Minneapolis)

[Big Reed]

since Santana is viewed as a much better pitcher than Sheets, I think if I was the brewers I would try to keep Sheets for the entire year rather than trying to trade him for prospects. if Sheets does leave via free agency, I would believe the brewers would be able to get better prospects from their compensation picks than they would receive as part of any trade. After seeing what the twins settled for, I would have to believe the offers for Sheets would be nowhere close to what the twins received.

[TooLiveBrew]

He's discussing the Santana trade, called Minnesota a joke of a franchise...

 

Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black!

[RyDogg66]

This was good, got if from a link on deadspin, cleaned up for BF.net

 

Howie Mandel: Hello Bill, welcome to Deal or No Deal.

 

Bill Smith (Twins GM): Hello Howie, I'm here to win myself some big time prospects.

 

Howie Mandel: Well Bill I just want to inform you that because of the 8 billion dollar contract we are going to have to elminate the million dollar case.

 

Bill Smith: Well that's some big time B.S..

 

Howie Mandel: I'm sorry but those are the cases you were dealt. Ha cases get it? I guess not. Additionally we are not letting you choose you're initial case, you will get the case which has a year of Santana and two first round Sandwich picks.

 

Bill Smith: Such nonsense.

 

Howie Mandel: Eh shutup, you work for the Twins. Now, onto the Start please pick 5 cases.

 

Bill Smith: I choose 24, 23, 22 and 21 and 20.

 

Howie Mandel: How original of you. Oooh you knocked off a bunch of cases in the middle. Your current offer is Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson from the Red Sox.

 

Bill Smith: That's it? Come on where is Jon Lester or Clay Bucholz?

 

Howie Mandel: Not there. Do you want to pull down more cases or are you going to accept the deal?

 

Bill Smith: No chance, let's go again. NO DEAL. I choose cases 19, 18, and 17..

 

Howie Mandel: You are friggin boring. Well the banker says you are about the same level. This time your deal is with the Yankees and includes Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and one of their minor league prospects. What will you decide?

 

Bill Smith: Do I look like a moron? NO DEAL. Give me cases 16, 15, and 14.

 

Howie Mandel: The deal has gone slightly up. The Mets are offering you every single farmhand they have.

 

Bill Smith: I want Reyes, screw them. NO DEAL. Give me cases 13, 12 and 11.

 

Howie Mandel: The Yankees deal is back on the table but you have to decide by tomorrow.

 

Bill Smith: Screw that I want Kennedy and Hughes. They will come back to me. NO DEAL. I'll take cases 9, 8 and 7.

 

Howie Mandel: Ouch it looks like the Red Sox have removed Ellsbury from the trade and only will give you Coco Crisp along some other prospects.

 

Bill Smith: Haha, you're funny Howie. I don't want no Coco, I'm a coffee guy. NO DEAL. Give me cases 6, 5, and 4.

 

Howie Mandel: Sorry Bill but the banker doesn't even want to give you a deal right now cause you're being such a douche. So pick another case.

 

Bill Smith: Uh Ok. No Deal I guess. I'll take case #3.

 

Howie Mandel: Ok Bill you have two cases remaining along with the one in your possession. The Yankees are offering you a deal with Ian Kennedy as its centerpiece. What will you do?

 

Bill Smith: No I said I want Reyes or Hughes. NO DEAL. Give me case 2 that'll bring the deal back up to where it should be.

 

Howie Mandel: Alright Bill you're down to the case you have in your hands. 2 sandwich picks and a year of Santana or your final offer from the banker.... A deal with the Mets including Phil Humber and Carlos Gomez?

 

Bill Smith: Umm, Umm, Umm....

 

Howie Mandel: Make a decision so I can bag one of these models already.

 

Bill Smith: I'll take the Mets deal.

 

Howie Mandel: What a moron. Well that's it for Deal or No Deal. Next Week we'll have the Baltimore Orioles in and their dealings of Eric Bedard.

[Ayt]

spent all of last season at AAA or in the majors.

 

Turned in a nice performance in the PCL. .360+ OBP/.400+ SLG from a 21-y-o.

He's also a fantastic base stealer. He was 17/21 in AAA last year in only 36 games.

 

[DrWood]

I wonder what seattle offered MN? Adam Jones seems like a better prospect than Gomez does to me.

[xisxisxis]

This deal is great compared to paying a ton of money to sign Morneau and Cuddyear long-term.

[RockCoCougars]

Wow, I didn't know Moss, Marbury, and Garnett played baseball. Learn something new every day.

I said "Minnesota teams", not Minnesota Twins.

I disagree, Pierzysnki was nowhere close to the fan favorite that Knoblauch was at the time.

 

Popularity has little or nothing to do with trade value or value on the field.

Look at Knoblauch's stats from 1994-1997 and tell me that he wasn't a star at that point. Basically the Twins trading Knoblauch would have been like the Brewers trading Molitor after 1982. Knoblauch went completely south when he left town, so that's tarnished his legacy- but he was a borderline superstar. Pierzynski was an above average catcher, but not a "star". The Twins didn't want to pay him because he was arby eligible. That trade looked horrible for the Giants from day one, and it was a fleecing, but it wasn't considered a huge trade like the others that I listed.