Johan Santana to NYM, Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey to MIN [Merged: Mets sign Johan (7 yr, $150M); see reply #83]

[NYChez]

The good news is that we play the Twins 6 times a year and the Mets 6 times a year, so from a regular season standpoint, this move will have little effect on the Brewers. We'll face Santana once and maybe twice. The bad news is that we face the Mets the 2nd weekend of the year, and whether Santana starts the season opener or the home opener, he'll be definitely be in line to start one of the games against the Brewers.

[Brian the Automator]

For a Brewers fan's perspective, the package the Twins got would be comparable to this:

 

Tony Gwynn Jr. (Gomez)

Jeremy Jeffress (Guerra)

Mark Rogers (Humber)

Zach Jackson (Mulvey)

I totally disagree with that comparison. When you factor in ceilings and highest levels reached, I think the Mets offer blows this offer away. If you were to give me the players in parenthesis for the Brewers players, I would think it would be an absolute steal.

[jjfanec]

You have to figure Nathan is the next to go because they have a guy in Neshek who they think could be a closer. I wonder what it would cost to get him now in a trade. Obviously, we probably wont be going after him with Gagne in the fold, but I think some team (hopefully not the Cubs) is going to get a top notch closer.

[RyDogg66]

It seems to me the Twins waited way to long to make this deal. I would have preferred a Hughes/Melky package with a few others, or a Lester or Ellsbuty package, but that is just my lay opinion. I suppose shipping him out of the AL had some value as well.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

As a Twins fan... this deal makes me want to puke

[mothershipconnection]

I don't like this for the Twins. When you trade one of the game's best players, you need to get a big time prospect in return, at the very least someone in the top 20.

[whynotthebrewers]

While I didnt want to see him come to the NL, I did realize that we would see him the same amount of times as if he was with the twins. Plus, the mets rotation was pretty awful last year and I don't understand why it all of a sudden would become dominant with the addition of one pitcher. Santana is great but after that you have some real questions. They are no lock for the playoffs and I would say we have at least an equal chance to be as good. Pedro or Sheets could both get injured and change either rotation. Great move to help the mets but by no means a solution to the problems they had last year.

[SeriesFinale]

I don't understand this 'We'll see him the same amount of times we would have with the Twins" stuff. The fact of the matter is one of the best, if not the best, pitcher in baseball is now going to be pitching for a league opponent for the next several years. There's no way that doesn't make them better and hurt the Brewers.

[ELCABALLO45]

Its ok because thats why we have a all righty line up http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[rluzinski]

That no trade clause ended up costing the Twins a whole lot.

[ELCABALLO45]

and from NSB.com.... I thought it was a joke just kidding around but if you keep reading you figure out that its not.

2008 NLCS:

Cubs (Zambrano) @ Mets (Santana)
Cubs (Lilly) @ Mets (Martinez)
Mets (Maine) @ Cubs (Hill)
Mets (Perez) @ Cubs (Marquis)
Mets (Santana) @ Cubs (Zambrano)
Cubs (Lilly) @ Mets (Martinez)
Cubs (Zambrano/Hill) @ Mets (Santana/Maine)

[TerraceReserved]

Wow. That's embarassing that someone is typing up NLCS pitching matchups and it's not even February. It's ridiculous.

[razzzorsharp]

Terrace, people have been bringing up playoffs here as well. I think that would be a little more crazy given the past 26 years.

[twobrewers]

That no trade clause ended up costing the Twins a whole lot.

As soon as Liriano was declared out for the 2007 season, they should have traded Santana. They weren't going to win last year either.

 

Trading away two years of Santana would have gotten some incredible offers.

 

And not to pile on too much, but comparing Gwynn to Gomez is really funny.

[TerraceReserved]

Terrace, people have been bringing up playoffs here as well. I think that would be a little more crazy given the past 26 years.

 

True, but the past 26 years have nothing to do with our playoff hopes in 2008. All that matters is how good are team is now, and how good the Cubs are now. And I've seen playoff talk here, but nothing saying we will be winning the division outright, and certainly nothing about picking pitching matchups for the NLCS.

[colbyjack]

Instead of trying to figure out who the Mets prospects compare the best to Brewers prospects, just look at their rankings according to BA:

 

#2 Guerra

#3 Gomez

#4 Melvey

#7 Humber

 

The Mets system isn't as deep as the Brewers, but taking ranking for ranking that's a package of Parra, Escobar, Jeffress and Brewer. The true equal value may lie somewhere in between, but it is worth noting that the Mets are giving up a pretty good dose of talent to acquire Santana.

 

However, none of them are truly can't miss, and none of them have significant playing time at the MLB level. The four prospects are much better than a couple of draft picks, but if I were a Twins fan I would be on the cranky side today.

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

My problem with this trade from the Twin's prospective is they already have a surplus of pitching depth on the minor league level. Robertson, Blackburn, Duensing, Manship ,and many others talented pitchers are within the organization. A package of Ellsbury, Lowrie, and Bowden I think would have served the organization better, because it'd strengthen up their weaknesses. Although, I feel for the Twins fans, I am pumped for the the high draft pick hopefully coming to Beloit in 09.

[colbyjack]

My problem with this trade from the Twin's prospective is they already have a surplus of pitching depth on the minor league level.

 

There is no such thing as a pitching surplus. That's actually reason enough for me to like the trade slightly more. Stock up and hope a few of these guys stick.

 

I don't think the Twins will be all that bad next year honestly (I like their offensive balance since they acquired Young, as Mauer-Young-Morneau-Cuddyer, or however they stack up, will be tough to pitch to), but trading away arguably the best pitcher in baseball for 4 unproven guys is tough to swallow.

 

I know others have already suggested this, but what does this mean for Joe Nathan? Keep an eye on his name at the trade deadline. He could fetch more in late July than Santana did today.

[sbrylski]

I don't think the Twins will be all that bad next year honestly

 

I'll second that. 75-80 wins is possible. It'll be tough for them with Cleveland and Detroit in their division though.

[Katuluu]

You have to figure they will go hard after Lofton now, which would give them a pretty solid lineup. And with all those pitching prospects they'll probably just keep throwing them at the wall and see who sticks. If I were them I'd send out feelers and see if they could get a long term answer for CF with Nathan.

[sbrylski]

You have to figure they will go hard after Lofton now, which would give them a pretty solid lineup. And with all those pitching prospects they'll probably just keep throwing them at the wall and see who sticks. If I were them I'd send out feelers and see if they could get a long term answer for CF with Nathan.

Wouldn't that be Gomez?

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

There is no such thing as a pitching surplus.

I completly agree that you can never have enough pitching depth, but I'm a believer in quality over quanity. I really don't see any of these guys they just acquired being front line starters, and I really don't like the approach of seeing if players will "stick" in the big leagues. I guess what I was trying to say was the Twins have a lot of future #3's and #4's, and I don't see this trade changing any of that. However, I guess your viewpoint + the twins success of developing these pitchers is justifaction for reconsideration on my part.

[jjfanec]

I think the addition of Young will help that line-up but they were bad last year and lost Hunter. They were 25th in runs scored and in the bottom half of almost every category offensively. They added Mike Lamb, Brandon Harris, Craig Munroe, and Adam Everett but it will be interesting to see how that lineup performs when it is depended on to win games. Liriano, Baker, Bonser, Slowey, Humber/Perkins seems like a lot of potential in a year or two but not overly solid for the AL. I would be surprised to see them flirt with a .500 season, but obviously I could be way off. Just seems like losing your top two pitchers on what was an offensively challenged team spells a rough year.

[Riebes24]

I would not be happy if I were a Twins fan. From my perspective, I don't even think I'd be happy with that package for Sheets let alone Santana.

[Katuluu]

Wouldn't that be Gomez?

Well Denard Spahn was for the last few years, and Gomez is still probably 2 years away. A lot can happen in that time.