Bedard to Seattle, pending physicals

[TooLiveBrew]

Roberts isn't much better than Pie for 2008, and as soon as 2009 Pie could be far & away better - without taking obvious positional differences into account. Both are guys that'll post .800-ish OPS-es, but granted Roberts will likely carry the higher OBP (at least for now). If you're taking age into account, that's obviously a huge edge for Pie.

 

Given DeRosa, I don't understand why the Cubs feel they need to make this move.

[joepepsi]

Don't forget earlier they added Luke Scott, Troy Patton, Matt Albers, Dennis Sarfate, and "George" Costanza in the Tejada deal.

 

Holy cow, yea, I'd totally forgotten. Does Baltimore have a new GM, or has he just been granted more power by Angelos? End's point on flipping Scott is solid, especially if they get Pie.

Yeah, Andy MacPhail took over late June or early July. He was the Twins' GM, then the Cubs' President, iirc. Reportedly he is actually respected by Angelos due to his work with MLB and the recent player contract. So the hope is he actually has the autonomy that no Angeloriole GM has ever had.

 

Still, he moves painfully slow, so the house cleaning can't come fast enough for an Oriole fan like me. Now, Jayson Stark is reporting Angelos still has to approve the deal and he's not available today. This is the way it's always been. Angelos must approve every deal, yet he is often elusive, making potential deals drag on for days, frustrating trade partners.

 

So, although there is hope with MacPhail in the organization, there's yet to be any clear sign he is in control. If Roberts is traded, you'll know he at least has some power. Roberts is a favorite of Angelos', who believes it's better to have recognizable names on the squad, then players who can actually help you build a competitive team.

 

They can't flip Scott just yet.....they desperately need hitters, especially ones that have a bit of power.

[endaround]

But Scott isn't part of the future. Again he turns 30 in June. The Orioles really are looking two years down the line at best. No reason to carry a guy whose prime might be very short lived.

 

As for Roberts vs DeRosa, DeRosa is unlikely to match what he did last year, and while Roberts 2008=DeRosa 2007, DeRosa 2008 is not DeRosa 2007. Given Pinella apparently doesn't like Pie, better have guy who he'll play than a guy rotting on the bench or in Iowa

[twobrewers]

But Roberts is a *TRUE* leadoff hitter!

Honestly, the scariest part of the Cubs possibly adding Roberts is that they will move Soriano down in the lineup.

[DrWood]

TLB--I think you have a much higher opinion of Pie in 2008 than I do. I'd be surprised if he hits .750 OPS if he plays everyday. Roberts steals a lot of bases, too.

[Ennder]

Pie's #1 comp by age is Corey Patterson... I find that more than a little funny and I hope that is how Pie ultimately ends up playing out.

[TooLiveBrew]

TLB--I think you have a much higher opinion of Pie in 2008 than I do.

 

I think that's definite. Maybe in 2008, he won't be much more than average, but it's not every day that you find a 23-y-o with a realistic (even if you don't think he will, I think we can agree he has a realistic shot) chance to post an .800 OPS at a premium position like CF.

[twobrewers]

Angelos has yet to approve the trade.

 

I figured Seattle was going to have to part with at least two from the group of Jones, Morrow and Clement. Seems like a good deal for Seattle.

 

What would a similar offer be from the Brewers?

 

I mean, I know we have starting pitching - but adding Bedard would be a HUGE upgrade.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

but it's not every day that you find a 23-y-o with a realistic (even if you don't think he will, I think we can agree he has a realistic shot) chance to post an .800 OPS at a premium position like CF.

Or SS, he wasn't bad there and they just moved him because of Betancourt.

Also has one of the best attitudes I have seen. Replacing him with Brad Wilkerson doesn't seem like much of a plan.

 

I hope it falls through.

[RyDogg66]

Looks like Peter Angelos is going to grant your wish. He has to be the worst owner in baseball.

[ILuvDaBush]

I'd say a comparable trade would be LaPorta/Jeffress/Parra. LaPorta and Jones are similar, though I would take LaPorta everyday (Power and OBP), and Tillman/Butler are below Jeffress Parra, though Sherrill makes up for it a bit.

[ILuvDaBush]

Using John Sickels' grades, he has

 

Adams Jones B+

Chris Tillman B+

Tony Butler B-

 

Matt LaPorta B+

Manny Parra B+

Jeremy Jeffress B-

 

So it is almost a straight push...

[Gopher74]

Using John Sickels' grades, he has

 

Adams Jones B+

Chris Tillman B+

Tony Butler B-

 

Matt LaPorta B+

Manny Parra B+

Jeremy Jeffress B-

 

So it is almost a straight push...

Using Sickel's grades it is. Sickel's grades have been significantly different from other grades or scouting rankings I've seen. Tony Butler did not have a good year, and was badly overrated as a prospect last year. Even with his struggles, Jeffress absolutely blows him away as a prospect in my opinion.

 

Jones is a better value and a better prospect than LaPorta in my opinion, but again, with Parra and Tillman, you're talking about a guy in Tillman who is about as far as Rogers away from the big leagues and Parra a guy with the ceiling of a frontline starter.

 

That right there, those three prospects you listed favor the Brewers heavily, even with Jones edge of LaPorta.

 

 

 

I think if we had Will Inman back, we could come up with a closer value with what the M's would give up in this particular deal.

 

Maybe Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson and Jeremy Jeffress would be a closer deal, but throwing Parra into it changes the trade a great deal obviously.

 

Of course, the M's are also giving up a good major league reliever, so it's not an even deal, just even in terms of the prospects.

[MillerParkSouth]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3237189

 

after what has seemed like an eternity, this deal is finally official. Good deal for both teams, especially the Orioles.

[Ennder]

Well that pretty much takes Pie off the market for the orioles. That leaves any Roberts deal to be centered around Cubs pitchers and maybe Patterson both of which would be acceptable to me.

[Oldcity]

Quite a haul for the Orioles in my opinion. I know Santana and Bedard were in different contractual situations, but I like the return the Orioles got significantly more than what the Twins got for Santana.

[danzig6767]

Quite a haul for the Orioles in my opinion. I know Santana and Bedard were in different contractual situations, but I like the return the Orioles got significantly more than what the Twins got for Santana.

Well the contract situations are the sole reason for the difference in the returns for the Twins and Orioles. Teams in baseball knowing that any trade for Santana included shelling out 140 million dollars pretty much took away a lot of the leverage from the Twins. Very few teams were even willing to bother discussing a trade with the Twins for Santana because they knew they couldn't afford to sign Santana and of the few teams that were willing, they decided that giving up tons of young talent just for the right to pay Santana 140 million wasn't worth it.

 

[Oldcity]

I understand completely, but I still thought that fact that Johan is the best pitcher in baseball would make up for most of that. Unless everything we were hearing in December was completely bogus, I don't understand at all why Phil Hughes isn't a Twin.

 

Edit: Let me put it this way. If the Brewers had the budget of the Mets, I'd have no problem blowing the Mets' offer out of the water. Gallardo, LaPorta, Parra and Gamel wouldn't have been too steep for me if it got me a 28 year old All-World lefty with no injury history for six years. Yet the Mets didn't even give up their best prospect.

[hauser42]

Using John Sickels' grades, he has

 

Adams Jones B+

Chris Tillman B+

Tony Butler B-

 

Matt LaPorta B+

Manny Parra B+

Jeremy Jeffress B-

 

So it is almost a straight push...

Using Sickel's grades it is. Sickel's grades have been significantly different from other grades or scouting rankings I've seen. Tony Butler did not have a good year, and was badly overrated as a prospect last year. Even with his struggles, Jeffress absolutely blows him away as a prospect in my opinion.

 

Jones is a better value and a better prospect than LaPorta in my opinion, but again, with Parra and Tillman, you're talking about a guy in Tillman who is about as far as Rogers away from the big leagues and Parra a guy with the ceiling of a frontline starter.

 

That right there, those three prospects you listed favor the Brewers heavily, even with Jones edge of LaPorta.

 

 

 

I think if we had Will Inman back, we could come up with a closer value with what the M's would give up in this particular deal.

 

Maybe Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson and Jeremy Jeffress would be a closer deal, but throwing Parra into it changes the trade a great deal obviously.

 

Of course, the M's are also giving up a good major league reliever, so it's not an even deal, just even in terms of the prospects.

Jeffers has yet to prove he can get his secondary pitches over the plate and his suspension puts a black mark on him, he does not blow Butler out of the water when you look at all the facts.

 

O's got a great haul in this package from the Ms. They have started to get younger with better players thanks to the new GM. Markaksis, Scott, Jones is a lot better OF than what they had last year and now they have a bunch of young arms to build with.

[Blazer25]

Tony Butler did not have a good year, and was badly overrated as a prospect last year. Even with his struggles, Jeffress absolutely blows him away as a prospect in my opinion.

How do you figure? Butler is a 6-7 LHP who's been in the 93-94 mph range in the past and has a +CB. He was playing in his first full year in the pros and happend to be in his home state. Not exactly an easy task for a 19 year old.

 

Jeffress throws in the upper 90's with zero command and lacks a big league quality secondary pitch. Oh yeah he's also been suspended already for a banned substance.

 

 

 

To say that one blows the other away is well off the mark. I think time will show that Butler is a better prospect than you think.