Aquino the O's new closer?

[Gopher74]

Is Tbadder begging to get into a flame war, or what?

Yea, at this point I think I have to remove myself form that discussion, less I earn myself a strike.

My only real beef with what the Selig's did from a money standpoint was their last season as owners and their money grab. Ask the taxpayers to build a park and after the city paid to build it and fans filled it, that last year they cut the payroll to 20-25 million and did a quick cash grab on the way out knowing they were going to sell the team.

Call me naive,but I do not believe that Bud was doing anything at all with the team after he relinquished control in the mid 90's. I want to say it was 94, but I'm not quite certain.

 

 

 

So, to Danzig, again, I was speaking more about the 1970-1994 stretch. We certainly were not a 100 win a season juggernaut, but we were a respectable team and pretty well run in my opinion. I also don't believe that Angelos spent more money, relative to the Brewers payroll during those years. Bud let the team go out and do what it needed to do. I still believe that letting Molitor go was a giant mistake, but be that as it is, I still think overall, the team did a very good job under his leadership.

 

 

 

[UndraftedFA]

You can call me a fan of Bud as well. He's not a pretty face or a great public speaker, and I think that distorts many opinions of him. I don't think the last year of the Selig reign was just a money grab either. The team was in serious debt at that time. The only thing I pin on the Selig reign is letting Bando stay too long. They put up extra money when the park opened. They spent it on dud FA's, and attendance (revenue) plummeted with the team record. MP cost a lot more to run, and they have payments to make. The debt got bigger and bigger. We can say Bud snagged money all we want, but how many people act different in their own lives? If your personal debt is sky high, do you keep spending beyond your means just to please other people? If you are smart, you sure don't. I have also seen people break down what Bud made on the Brewers, and it was hardly a great investment. He made money, but if all he cared about was money; he shouldn't have been involved with a baseball team. There were a lot of investments that would have done much better.

 

The tax is hardly anything to complain about either. What are sales taxes in Milwaukee? 5.6%? Where I live, it is 8.1%. The Brewers bring in a lot of money to the surrounding area. I think what is given to them by the state is well earned. You read plenty of articles of how much local revenue a sports franchise generates. How many other businesses can stack up to what the Brewers bring to WI?

 

-Edit - haha, I had Bud as Bug

[danzig6767]

Is Tbadder begging to get into a flame war, or what?

Yea, at this point I think I have to remove myself form that discussion, less I earn myself a strike.

My only real beef with what the Selig's did from a money standpoint was their last season as owners and their money grab. Ask the taxpayers to build a park and after the city paid to build it and fans filled it, that last year they cut the payroll to 20-25 million and did a quick cash grab on the way out knowing they were going to sell the team.

Call me naive,but I do not believe that Bud was doing anything at all with the team after he relinquished control in the mid 90's. I want to say it was 94, but I'm not quite certain.

 

 

 

So, to Danzig, again, I was speaking more about the 1970-1994 stretch. We certainly were not a 100 win a season juggernaut, but we were a respectable team and pretty well run in my opinion. I also don't believe that Angelos spent more money, relative to the Brewers payroll during those years. Bud let the team go out and do what it needed to do. I still believe that letting Molitor go was a giant mistake, but be that as it is, I still think overall, the team did a very good job under his leadership.

 

 

 

 

You are correct. The team was under the control of Wendy, not Bud, when that cash grab was done on the way out of town. Whether Bud was consulted on it by Wendy before doing so and how much of the money from the sale of the team Bud got i have absolutely no idea.There were also other investors in the team that very well could have played a role in wanting to grab money on the way out.

The Brewers were no doubt competitive for quite awhile under Bud. Once the revenue gaps began to really widen later in his ownership and under Wendy, they both just made some real mistakes in the hiring of GM's, particularly Sal Bando. Mix in they refused to accept the need to fully rebuild via the farm system, it lead to poor judgement in skimping on the draft while at the same time lighting money on fire by adding mediocre talent to big league rosters that had zero chance to win anyways.

Angelos is following a similar path in Baltimore. He spends cash poorly every offseason on free agents nowhere near good enough to help the team gets past the two cash cows above them in the AL East. So instead of accepting the reality that they need to fully rebuild and that they currently have no chance to catch the Yanks/Sox, they instead keep plugging along under a strategy that's done nothing except fail.

 

[Gopher74]

The Brewers were no doubt competitive for quite awhile under Bud. Once the revenue gaps began to really widen later in his ownership and under Wendy, they both just made some real mistakes in the hiring of GM's, particularly Sal Bando. Mix in they refused to accept the need to fully rebuild via the farm system, it lead to poor judgement in skimping on the draft while at the same time lighting money on fire by adding mediocre talent to big league rosters that had zero chance to win anyways.

 

 

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. The franchise was absolutely poorly run in the 90's. Bando was really the undoing of this team. At least prior to him, we always had at least a passable farm system. Maybe not a top 10 every year, but we had some top prospects. In the 90's and before Taylor hired Jack Z, it was real ugly. It was one blown draft pick after another. Chad Green, JM Gold, Antoine Williamson, David Krynzel, whatever. Just year after year it was a bad pick after another.

 

I will say that they started to turn it all around prior to selling the team when Taylor hired Jack Z. Everyone seems to universally accept that we didn't start to turn things around until Melvin came on board, but it was my opinion that Dean Taylor is someone who really does deserve a great deal of credit for the Brewers recent resurgence. He's the one who brought in the man who got it all turned around for us.

 

But in any event, the Brewers downfall really came under Wendy Selig-Prieb. I always wonder what would have become of the Brewers had Bud continued to run the team.

 

And UndraftedFA, I absolutely agree wholeheartedly. Selig's gotten such a bum rap(and by the way, I don't know why, but your comment about him not having a "pretty face" just made me laugh out loud behind my computer. That was hilarious.

 

But people in Milwaukee really ought to have more respect for the guy who brought and kept baseball in Milwaukee, and built Miller Park, ect..ect..ect...

 

 

 

[danzig6767]

The Brewers were no doubt competitive for quite awhile under Bud. Once the revenue gaps began to really widen later in his ownership and under Wendy, they both just made some real mistakes in the hiring of GM's, particularly Sal Bando. Mix in they refused to accept the need to fully rebuild via the farm system, it lead to poor judgement in skimping on the draft while at the same time lighting money on fire by adding mediocre talent to big league rosters that had zero chance to win anyways.

 

 

I will say that they started to turn it all around prior to selling the team when Taylor hired Jack Z. Everyone seems to universally accept that we didn't start to turn things around until Melvin came on board, but it was my opinion that Dean Taylor is someone who really does deserve a great deal of credit for the Brewers recent resurgence. He's the one who brought in the man who got it all turned around for us.

 

Taylor was just a terrible GM on the big league level from who he hired as managers to teams he put together. He for sure does deserve huge credit though for that one single move he made in bringing in Jack Zduriencik. In fact, outside of building Miller Park and getting a new owner, it could easily be argued that hiring Zduriencik was single most important baseball move this franchise has made in over 20 years.

 

[Gopher74]

Taylor was just a terrible GM on the big league level from who he hired as managers to teams he put together. He for sure does deserve huge credit though for that one single move he made in bringing in Jack Zduriencik. In fact, outside of building Miller Park and getting a new owner, it could easily be argued that hiring Zduriencik was single most important baseball move this franchise has made in over 20 years.

 

Can you imagine if Taylor was still the GM? I can only imagine how badly he's screw this whole thing up. He'd have traded Prince because we had Brad Nelson at 1st base, and he clearly was the safer of the two choices. I'm sure he'd have dumped Weeks because thank god we had Junior Spivey and that guy was an all-star.

 

Hell, we'd have been every teams favorite trading partners, sorta like the Pirates are now.

 

But yea, getting Jack Zduriencik may have been one of the top 5 things to ever happen to the Brewers.

1-82 Series

2-The Big 3, Yount, Molly, Gumby.

3-Miller Park

4-Mark A

5-Jack Z/Doug Melvin

Soon to take over the top spot, the 2008 World Series WIN!

 

[Fatter than Joey]

But yea, getting Jack Zduriencik may have been one of the top 5 things to ever happen to the Brewers.

 

This could very well be true -- I would say though that getting Harry Dalton needs to be on that list, as there would gave been no 1982 series without him.

[Mass Haas]

I love good Greg Aquino talk http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

[logan82]

UndraftedFA wrote:

The Brewers bring in a lot of money to the surrounding area. I think what is given to them by the state is well earned. You read plenty of articles of how much local revenue a sports franchise generates.

I am not so sure about that. I mean, how many people stop and do anything besides the game when they are in Milwaukee.

[Gopher74]

I am not so sure about that. I mean, how many people stop and do anything besides the game when they are in Milwaukee.

A lot of people. I almost never go to a game without going out after the game for a couple Beer's, or a bite to eat. And if you come in from out of town, you're likely staying at a hotel, and you're definitely going out to eat.

[logan82]

Gopher74 wrote:

A lot of people. I almost never go to a game without going out after the game for a couple Beer's, or a bite to eat. And if you come in from out of town, you're likely staying at a hotel, and you're definitely going out to eat.

I personally pay for tickets and parking. That's it. Nobody I know stops for anything except the game. I don't exactly live close either.

[Gopher74]

I personally pay for tickets and parking. That's it. Nobody I know stops for anything except the game. I don't exactly live close either.

Nobody you know goes out for so much as a drink before or after the game ever? Hmm..that seems kinda odd to me. I guess we just travel in different circles. I obviously love watching the Brewers play, but I think that there are a lot of people who, like me, want to make it a complete evening. I know that when Cubs fans come up they often stay over, go to Summerfest, German Fest, whatever the case may be.

 

[JJHardy7]

I think the city of Milwaukee needs baseball. It just likes to see a winning team. I think the main point I think about whether or not there should be baseball is the fact that Milwaukee can't really handle the sports teams they have right now when a team isn't winning. The Brewers, Bucks, Admirals, Wave, Marquette, and UWM are too many teams to have the stadiums filled when they're losing. I personally think the Bucks will be out of Milwaukee in the next few years because Milwaukee isn't going to support another arena...anyways back to the O's.

 

I guess I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to go to Aquino. It's not like he was their first choice and it's not like the O's are a playoff team anyways. Maybe Aquino somehow is a good closer and they can ship him off for prospects. I personally was sad that the O's got Sarfate. Sarfate really looked good with the Astros (in a short period), but I can't blame them for trading him when he has some value -- they got him for free. I still think Sarfate ends up the closer at some point during the season and I think its a spot he really could excel. I think history proves he's not the type of pitcher who should really start, but in a relief role he can throw triple digits -- now he just has that control problem.

[Braminano]

I don't think this move will work out as poorly as one might think. If you look at Aquino's 07 season, he was awesome when you brought him in at the beginning of an inning with no runners on. He basically has the same syndrome as Turnbow where he is a disaster if he encounters inherited runners