Heath Ledger, 28, found dead in New York apartment...

[jcr0nk]

call me ignorant but how do you "accidentally" overdose on something? He/she knows they are taking the pills so ...

 

I suppose I'm ignorant as well. I don't know how you could "accidentally" OD on anything either besides forgetting you took some and then some more but even then, you would most likely need to be taking quite a bit of medication. I'd have to guess that the pill companies put just enough in each pill to make you sleepy or less sore or whatever. I'd have to say that if the bottle says a dosage is 2 pills and you take 4, you won't die.

I'm only guessing here but it sure seems to me that if you die from pills it's because you meant to.

 

i think most accidental ODs are because a person has developed such a tolerance for something that they have increased the dose they are consuming to dangerous levels trying to get the effect that they got the first few times they used the substance.

[saget]

This is all a gimmick for The Dark Knight. I can feel it.

[TooLiveBrew]

i think most accidental ODs are because a person has developed such a tolerance for something that they have increased the dose they are consuming to dangerous levels trying to get the effect that they got the first few times they used the substance.

 

Bingo - that's probably the best way to explain it. There's that saying that 'you're always chasing your first high'. Brewers19 said it well, too - tragic any way you slice it.

[brewerjamie15]

i think most accidental ODs are because a person has developed such a tolerance for something that they have increased the dose they are consuming to dangerous levels trying to get the effect that they got the first few times they used the substance.

 

I didn't really see that point of view, but it certainly makes sense.

[brettac1]

I think anytime you OD without the intention of OD'ing, it would be accidental.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't get why this is a shame or terrible news. He did it to himself, therefore I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

 

Heath Ledger doesn't need your sympathy, as he is dead. However, there are family, friends and fans involved. This is a horrible and sad event.

[mothershipconnection]

I don't know how you could "accidentally" OD on anything either besides forgetting you took some and then some more but even then, you would most likely need to be taking quite a bit of medication.

 

There are a couple of ways overdoses can be "accidental", pharmacology isn't my field, so these will only be the simple ones.

1. Drug interaction or synergistic effects. Some drugs basically fuel eachother's fire, so to speak and the total effect is greater than the sum of it's parts. For example, you can take a therapeutic dose of drugs A and B and die from it, even though you took a safe dose of each one. This is often illustrated with alcohol and pills. A user can take an amount that would be within a safe range, and drink an amount that would not be toxic, but they die because of the combined effect, which is toxic.

 

2. Opponent processes. The environment in which drugs are taken comes to elicit a response which essentially moves in the opposite direction of the effect of the drug. So if you took a strong sedative in your bedroom, that room and the range of stimuli present would elicit an excitatory response over time. Go take the same pills in a novel environment, which does not elicit this response, and the effect of the drugs will be stronger. It's often discussed that heroin addicts use a familiar amount in hotel rooms and then die, while that dose was administered countless times at home. Ever feel drunker than you should be when you drink in a strange situation, like the middle of the afternoon with new friends? This is probably why.

[sgtcluels]

It's way to early to say if it was intentional or not. It could have been, he took some sleeping pills, and then had a stroke. Took some pills, had an undiagnosed heart condition. Until they rule out some kind of natural causes you can't really say he did it intentionally. It's not like he took a shotgun to his face.. well Courtney Love puts a shotgun to your face.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'll throw in here, as I guess one could say I have first hand knowledge.

 

When I was diagnosed a while back with cluster headaches (anyone who ever has had them know that they're excruciating.....much worse than migraines), I was given vicodin, and then when that wasn't working, percocets.

 

These headaches were starting to interfere with everyday life in a serious way. I was missing work, not able to drive, so on and so forth.

 

I wasn't in danger of losing my job according to my boss, but I was missing a boatload of work, and we had just bought a house.

 

I got up one morning, felt the beginnings of what I knew was not a regular headache, and took 1 perc, around 5 am. I took another at 7, just as I was getting to work. Being in construction, I'm of course around loud noises all day. About 9-ish, I took 2 more. At this point, I am going partly on my own recolletion, and what my co-workers tell me. They, of course, didn't know I had taken 2 before work, let alone 2 more at 9 am. My head was still throbbing, and between the debilitating pain, and the percocet, I had no idea when I had taken pills, so at break (10 am) I took 3 more. Shortly thereafter, my supervisor noticed I "wasn't doing so good", and sent me to the job shack, where I took 2 more. 9 percs in just over 5 hours. I had no idea what was going on.

 

I worked with my nephew, who knew who to call for a ride, instead of letting me drive home myself. Didn't go home, but went right to the ER.

 

Now, I'm not excusing what I did, it was wrong, and self-destructive, but when you get going, and feel terrible, and are also under the effect of a narcotic, your judgement and ability to recall is seriously impaired. I can honestly say I can see easily how someone may accidentally overdose.

 

That being said, I'm talking pain pills, not sleeping pills, but I think some key elements match up, such as the more you dose, the less sound your judgement and reason and recall ability will become. If you suffer from insomnia (as I had in the past after a surgery), your thought process really starts to break down as you become more and more sleep deprived. Simple things like tieing your shoes can become mind bending problems in their own right.

 

Is this what happened to Ledger? Obviously I don't know. I'm just hoping to shed a little light on anyone who questions how you can accidentally OD.

[pitchleague]

for comedy effect, whenever I think of accidental overdose, I think of somebody taking some pills out of a bottle but as they do they slip on the floor and fall. Meanwhile, the bottle goes flying into the air and all the pills spill out and land right in the person's mouth and go right down their throat clean as a whistle. Therefore, they accidentally overdosed on the pills.

 

But then again, that's how my brain works sometimes.

[Team Canada]

I just heard that the apartment is owned by actress Mary-Kate Olsen....

Is this substantiated anywhere? On CNN it said it was his apartment that he rented out..

 

Either way, regardless of whether it was intentional or not, it's a darn shame. It'll be very eerie watching Batman this summer.

 

[JimH5]

Life is good, so it's always sad when someone is denied the opportunity to live a long, healthy life--whether by his own choice or by accident or disease.

[danzig6767]

Geez, I just hope it wasn't accidental - for his sake. If it was intentional, then it is what it is, I guess. I wonder if there's a real chance that it was stronger sleeping pills that got him really hooked... then mixed with a night of drinking? Ugh. In any event, I apologize for speculating.

 

Why would you hope he killed himself vs an accidental OD?

I'm sure it would be much easier on those that loved him knowing he died from an accident than having to spend a bunch of time wondering why he'd kill himself and maybe even blaming themselves for not noticing the signs or wondering if they were at fault at all in a depression that lead to suicide.

You often hear stories of family/friends blaming themselves to a degree after a suicide because they sit around wondering if there was something they could have done to prevent it. If a person dies from an accident, it's still tragic for family/friends, but they don't have to sit around wondering if they played a role in some depression or missed signs that suicide was in that persons mind.

 

[JoeHova]

Hmm, I'm surprised that a few people on this thread have so little empathy. A man once wrote that "any man's death diminishes

me, because I am involved in mankind". It's a sentiment I agree with.

 

I think if his death was an accident, it was an obvious tragedy. On CNN they said the pills were over the counter, perhaps he just didn't realize that it was easy for something available over the counter to kill you. Also, drugs vary greatly in the amount needed to kill you. The reason you always hear so much about heroin overdoses is because the lethal dose is only 5 times greater than the effective dose. Most other drugs have at least two times as much room for error. Maybe Ledger recently switched from a drug where taking 6 pills is no big deal to one where that could kill you.

 

However, if he purposefully killed himself, the news is perhaps even more tragic. Think how bad things must have gotten for him if a guy as good-looking, talented, and wealthy as him didn't see any reason to keep living. Most of us hope to be one of those things and yet someone with all that going for him couldn't deal with the world. What chance do the rest of us have if that's the case?

 

Any suicide is a terrible shame, in my opinion, because it's such a final solution. I know that there are philosophical arguments to be made for killing yourself (by Goethe, notably) but I don't know if such views are commonly held by people who eventually commit suicide.

 

Anyway, I just feel bad for Heath, whatever the circumstances of his death. If it was an accident, so be it. If it was suicide, I just wish that he would have tried something else first. Retire from showbiz, or check into a mental hospital (like Dave Chapelle), or run marathons, or adopt some kids (like Angelina Jolie), or concentrate on your record label, or whatever. Anything to try to get his mind off of whatever it was that was causing him such anguish. Of course, maybe he felt he had already exhausted his options, in which case, the only thing left to say is that I hope I never get to that point.

[valpocrewsader]

This is a horrible and sad event.

 

Well, what's important to remember is that 3,000 people commit suicide every day throughout the world. I think "event" is a bit much. This isn't a once a year thing, it's a 1 million times a year thing.

[brewcrewreview]

Agreed Valpo. Suicide is, by far, a bigger killer than AIDS in this country.

Why should I feel bad for his ex-wife, kid, and other family and friends of his when he obviously didn't care that much about them? If he did, he would have gotten help instead of taking the easy way out. Suicide is probably the most selfish thing you can do. The person "relieves" themselves, but yet they cause endless people endless years of mental pain and suffering. Again, I don't see again why I should feel bad at all about this situation.

[Katuluu]

It was not Mary-Kate Olsen's apartment. It was originally reported that it was, but later recanted.

[Barbs4339]

If he did, he would have gotten help instead of taking the easy way out. Suicide is probably the most selfish thing you can do. The person "relieves" themselves, but yet they cause endless people endless years of mental pain and suffering. Again, I don't see again why I should feel bad at all about this situation.

You just answered your own question. You should feel bad about this situation because of the pain and hurt it will cause so many people for so long. Don't feel bad for Heath if you don't want to, but it would be really heartless to not feel bad for everyone else that this affects. Just because you cannot understand why someone would do this and cannot find any sympathy within yourself, it does not make it any less tragic of a situation.

[homer]

"Why should I feel bad for his ex-wife, kid, and other family and friends of his when he obviously didn't care that much about them?"

 

 

That makes absolutlely no sense. Zero. Zilch.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Agreed Valpo. Suicide is, by far, a bigger killer than AIDS in this country.

Why should I feel bad for his ex-wife, kid, and other family and friends of his when he obviously didn't care that much about them? If he did, he would have gotten help instead of taking the easy way out. Suicide is probably the most selfish thing you can do. The person "relieves" themselves, but yet they cause endless people endless years of mental pain and suffering. Again, I don't see again why I should feel bad at all about this situation.

Because you don't know if it was a suicide or not. There is scant information out on this story at the moment. I would refrain from passing judgment until the facts are out. Also, I don't understand your arguement saying you shouldn't feel bad for his family because he didn't. Doesn't that make you just as bad as him?

 

You are obviously a professional wrestling fan. I'd be very interested in hearing your take on the Chris Benoit murder/suicide last year.

[brewcrewreview]

I don't feel anything at all for Chris Benoit except anger. What he did was unforgiveable to say the very least.

I do (obviously) feel bad for Nancy (his wife) and Daniel (his son). They were innocent victims of unspeakable crimes. I also feel bad for anyone connected to Nancy and Daniel as, again, they were innocent victims of unspeakable crimes.

I don't blame Vince McMahon and professional wrestling at all for any of this. If Vince McMahon and professional wrestling are to blame, then I guess Hollywood and any movie studio, script writer, and director that Heath Ledger worked for are to blame also.

[Ralph Wiggum]

brewcrewreview wrote:

I do (obviously) feel bad for Nancy (his wife) and Daniel (his son). They were innocent victims of unspeakable crimes. I also feel bad for anyone connected to Nancy and Daniel as, again, they were innocent victims of unspeakable crimes.

I know that Ledger obviously didn't take anyone out with him, but it's still a little hypocritical to say that you feel bad for anyone connected to Benoit's family, while showing no sympathy for anyone connected to Ledger. When someone close to you dies, it hurts, no matter what the circumstance is/was.

[Barbs4339]

I don't blame Vince McMahon and professional wrestling at all for any of this. If Vince McMahon and professional wrestling are to blame, then I guess Hollywood and any movie studio, script writer, and director that Heath Ledger worked for are to blame also.

No offense, but the more you reply, the less sense you make. Vince McMahon knows that steroids are a big part of wrestling and the only thing that he ever did about it was to take them himself. There was no way to know that Heath was taking anything other than prescription drugs given to him by his doctor. Benoit was obviously taking illegal steroids and nothing was done about it until he took two people down with him. Lives were lost in both instances, making them equally as tragic.I pray that his child is able to grow up to be a normal functional human being.

[sgtcluels]

Once again, the facts of the case aren't even set in stole.

 

All we know is..

He was having sleeping problems.

He died suddenly.

Pills were found in the apartment and not scattered around like previously reported.

He's famous.

 

I think the fact is, that people go right to "Suicide" because he was a star. It could have just been a tragic out of the blue fatality. Who knows.. maybe his lack of sleep messed up his body and he just died. You will have to wait 10 - 14 days before we spout out bunk like "He's a pathetic loser for killing himself". Lets stop knee jerk reacting and wait for all the facts before we make a bold statements of assumed fact.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why would you hope he killed himself vs an accidental OD?

I'm sure it would be much easier on those that loved him knowing he died from an accident than having to spend a bunch of time wondering why he'd kill himself and maybe even blaming themselves for not noticing the signs or wondering if they were at fault at all in a depression that lead to suicide.

You often hear stories of family/friends blaming themselves to a degree after a suicide because they sit around wondering if there was something they could have done to prevent it. If a person dies from an accident, it's still tragic for family/friends, but they don't have to sit around wondering if they played a role in some depression or missed signs that suicide was in that persons mind.

 

The bold-faced is definitely part of my thought process. However, I'm speaking in terms of the individual, too. For me - personally - the thought of an accidental overdose is so terrifying. It's one thing to know, 'Ok, I want to and am going to kill myself.' It's so much more horrific for me to think of not meaning to OD & then doing so. With the suicide, the individual has agency & plays an intentional role. With an accidental OD, sure there are elements of personal responsibility, but you weren't trying to die. I'm not sure that necessarily explains/ed it well, sorry...