"You won't recognize the sport in five years!"

[AJAY]

I have no idea who the best commissioner is, but the football commissioners never had a powerful union to deal with. NFL commisioners and owners could pretty much do anything they wanted. Football commissioners also never had to deal with revenue disparities because there are no local TV contracts. The short 16 game schedule also eliminates big attendance disparities too. That is why football owners were mostly on the same page (unlike baseball)

 

I am sure guys like Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue did a great job, but they had it very easy compared to everything Bud Selig and his predecessors had to deal with.

[hawing]

Another thing with the Baseball vs. Football. Over the last 20 or so years that I have been in a work environment, I have had fellow employees on several occasions ask me how I can be a baseball fan? They site among other things that it's boring, full of spoiled whiny athletes (players that barely hit .250 earning millions of $$$), steroids, etc. However, I have never heard anyone who's a die hard football at work be asked how they could be football fans.

 

I got paired up on a golf course this last summer with a guy who noticed my Brewer golf bag and Brewer head covers and said something like, "So, your a pretty big Brewer fan huh?" Then he went one to say how he use to be a baseball fan, but it just lost him when millionaire players went on strike, not just once. I think there are more people that truly dislike baseball than there are that dislike football.

 

When our tickets arrive every year, I email my colleagues with a list of the dates I'll be leaving a bit early for weeknight games or taking off for weekday games. I haven't had anyone actually ask how I can be a baseball fan, but I always feel like they're thinking, "look at her, she's still following the Brewers" - like it's a weird quirky thing. Obviously there have been seasons where continuing to follow the Brewers closely was not super rewarding, but it's not like the Packers haven't had their funks.

 

Like Patrick425 has observed, no one blinks an eye at my workplace when some people wear Packers clothing (daily, year round, not kidding), or have Packer shrines in their offices (one of which used to spill out into a hallway. You could walk by and tell whether the Packers had won or lost their most recent game by the arrangement of the shrine).

 

In Wisconsin, I know there are folks (of a certain age, by now) who more or less swore off baseball when the Braves left, and continue to not care 42 years later. So I imagine there are also fans for whom 1994 was the last straw.

 

Sorry to veer off a bit. The Packers hype this past week, plus Patrick425's comments, made the opportunity to comment irresistible. I'll gladly retract my attitude if the state of Wisconsin (not just Milwaukeeland) responds as heartily to a Brewers postseason as they are to the Packers now.

[crewcuts]

More $$ and attendance don't = Golden Age. I love the game. Stopped being passionate about the NBA 15 years ago, the NFL 5 or 7 years ago. They are marketing opportunities more than sports.

If not for betting, the NFL would be a snooze. Just as someone mentioned the days of Mantle, Mays, Aaron, small market balance etc, pro football had grass fields that could be reduced to mud bowls and battling the elements. I know fan comfort is up but indoor stadiums took a huge amount of interest away (for me, at least). I'd offer that one big reason passion for football in Green Bay is still at the top is BECAUSE of the lack of creature comforts. Football is best played in varied elements. They are integral to the enjoyment of the game. Football results shouldn't be decided by the combines...They should be decided by the ability to adapt to all manner of changes and conditions by tough guys who can still win when their passing game is taken away. Same with rules designed to protect the quarterback and receivers...Hard to argue the benefits, but some games start to resemble flag football...

 

As for baseball, many of the same observations apply...It's tough to knock Miller Park, I love it from a comfortable fan position..but the roof should be open whenever possible. If it's not pouring or under 50 degrees, play the game as it was meant to be played. For "feeling the game" County Stadium was more inclusive for the fan..It was being part of the game vs. "watching" the game...

 

All the innocence is gone from pro sports. In that regard all three of the majors take the hit.. Too much money has skewed the prism to the point that the common man no longer feels a common bond with players. The drugs, the cheating and the slavish devotion of the media has taken the warm, good feelings out of the sports to a large degree. We're left with fantasy leagues and betting to keep interest up..It's a bit like painting up a 40 year old gal with makeup, expensive clothes and jewelry to keep the attraction level up...It still may work but deep down we know somethings missing..and that something is akin to purity...

 

Not to sound like an old fuddy duddy...I'm in fantasy leagues and enjoy a comfortable ballpark also...but sometimes progress steals the very appeal of what you started with...

Selig's reign as commissioner has been great for baseball from an attendance standpoint, but I'm positive if you had him alone his fondest memories would be of the simpler game we grew up with...

[PeaveyFury]

but the football commissioners never had a powerful union to deal with.

 

But that's BECAUSE Rozelle broke the NFLPA decades ago.

[UndraftedFA]

I think the popularity difference in baseball and football is probably greater in WI where most of the posters are residing. Live in a different area of the country and you get a whole different perception of sports. Live somewhere where it isn't just people that almost all root for the same teams. You get to hear other people say how they have the worst or best coaches, manager, and players. I guarantee the Arizona Cardinals are not heads and tails above the other local teams. The radio guys sounds like they are the opponent's radio team! I would definitely agree that football reigns supreme in WI, but not everywhere.

 

The Brewers didn't have a lot to be excited about for many years. It is easy to see why the Packers are more popular. They have Favre, and usually a team that at least could compete on a yearly basis. Baseball still has less teams make the playoffs (which I like), but I think the extra difficulty of making the playoffs doesn't dupe as many fans into rooting for their local team. The Brewers at least are a team that is competitive now, I think the state has responded nicely. I see a lot a Brewers apparel when I visit home, even in the off-season. You could not say that even 5 years ago. I would think it is probably similar in cities like Detroit and Denver where football is probably also usually dominant.

[nate82]

I think the popularity difference in baseball and football is probably greater in WI where most of the posters are residing. Live in a different area of the country and you get a whole different perception of sports. Live somewhere where it isn't just people that almost all root for the same teams. You get to hear other people say how they have the worst or best coaches, manager, and players. I guarantee the Arizona Cardinals are not heads and tails above the other local teams. The radio guys sounds like they are the opponent's radio team! I would definitely agree that football reigns supreme in WI, but not everywhere.

For example go to St. Louis and I bet you will hear that the Cardinals and the Blues rank higher than the Rams. Goto LA and the Lakers are king there even when the Raiders were there. Theres a lot of places where football is not king in the US we just believe it is because of all the NFL hype from ESPN and other sports affiliates.

There are other areas that are like this also. I bet there are more people in New York who would put the Yankees above the Giants/Jets/Buffalo. Same with the Knicks but I wouldn't ask that question now. What really makes a sport popular is the success of your team. The Packers have had more success than the Brewers have had in recent and in past history. You can even say this with the Cubs and Bears. The Bears definitely dominate the Cubs right now, but if you went back oh say about 4-5 years ago and it would have been the opposite the Cubs would be ranked higher than the Bears.

 

Basically all the normal fans besides your crazy fans and your dedicated fans are band wagon fans. Even the Packers have band wagon fans the same can be said about the Badgers. Before Alvarez came to UW there really wasn't much talk about the Badgers it was really just the Packers and the Brewers. Success creates fan popularity nothing more nothing less. Just take last season for the Brewers for an example. Nearly every home game was sold out. Why did this happen? It is because they started winning and all the band wagon fans started piling in. The same happened to the Packers from the 80's to the 90's.

 

I'm done rambling now.

[pogokat]

yeah, i have mentioned this before, but the braves are much more popular than the falcons...football fans in the south like college football, not the nfl..i'm not sure if i;ve met a diehard falcons fan in my life...but i meet plenty of diehard braves fans...

 

of course,the falcons are infinitely more popular than the hawks...

[Patrick425]

but the braves are much more popular than the falcons

Yet the Braves can't sell out playoff games because the fans have become "bored" with them making the playoffs every year (well, up to last year).

[Patrick425]

While there may be some regional area where baseball appears to be more popular that football. Overall, it's pretty clear what sport most Americans consider their favorite sport:

 

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=719

[Patrick425]

Not to keep responding to my own posts (sorry about the 3 posts in a row)....

However, I was listening to baseball this morning on XM on my long drive in to work today. They were talking about how, other than when guys take grounders during batting practice, teams don't take infield anymore. How hitting is stressed so much more than fielding. Buck Martinez talked about how everyone gets on catchers that can only throw out 10% (or less) of potential base stealers and part of the reason for this is that they never practice. Same with outfield throws - they don't get practiced after spring training.

There is a lot of talk on this thread, and Selig brings it up all the time, about the popularity of the game and how more people are going to games than ever before. Yes, but who are these people? Are they people that look forward to tailgating more than they look forward to the game? People than enter the game after the 1st or 2nd inning so that they can get one more "cheap" beer in the parking lot? Half the people at games probably could not tell you the score without looking at the score board or even tell you who the opposing team is. What is the one thing that every one of these "fans" is hoping to see? The hit and run? A perfectly executed sacrifice bunt? Strategically placed infielders with men on base in a crucial situation? Uhhhh....probably not. We all know what they want to see...A Home Run.

Listening to the radio really got me thinking about how this increased "popularity" of the game has help to contribute to a decreased emphasis on the fundamentals of the game. Does baseball turn away from fans who are basically only interested in Offense? Of course not. That would be financial suicide. However, how about trying to educate the casual fan? Baseball is a beautiful sport that is about much more than offense. I went to a hockey game once and got a little hand out as I entered the game about the terminology and rules of the game. As a person who knew nothing about hockey, I thought this was great. Or, how about some scoreboard trivia between innings relating to baseball strategy or rules. They could take some real situation from a real game and give 3 or 4 options for what a manager could do in a certain situation (kind of like a "you be the manager" type thing). For example A) play the infield up B) move the corners up C) play at DP depth, etc. Then show what the manager did and what the outcome of that decision was.

I don't know. I just get tire of this whole "fans in the seats = golden age" mentality. When I start seeing MLB start getting back to fundamental baseball and fans in the stands that appreciate that type of play, then maybe we can start talking about a "golden age".