Are we going to suck the first few weeks?

[Gopher74]

That would be a who should our starting CF be against righties controversy correct? Gross is just about the worst hitter in baseball history against lefties (small sample I know!).

 

Gross - .093/.269/.167/.436

It's generally pointless to use tiny sample sizes....sometimes however there is a good reason for the sample being small. I assume the comment about him starting vs LHP'ers was a mistake.

 

[Oldcity]

I think salary could be a good indicator of their roles. Vargas at 3.6 mil and Capuano at 3.75 mil are likely too highly paid to be long relievers. So either they are traded or in the rotation. My guess is Vargas is traded and Capuano at the back of the rotation.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think salary could be a good indicator of their roles. Vargas at 3.6 mil and Capuano at 3.75 mil are likely too highly paid to be long relievers. So either they are traded or in the rotation. My guess is Vargas is traded and Capuano at the back of the rotation.

 

Stevo, your logic suggest Craig Counsell should be the starter at 2B. After all, you can't have a guy making $2.8 million be the last guy on the bench.

 

Villanueva as a starter is 3-4 with a 3.01 ERA in 12 starts covering 71 2/3 innings. Last September in the heat of a race, he was 2-2 with a 1.99 ERA in 6 appearences, 5 of which he started.

 

Not only should he be a starter, he should be 3rd, behind Sheets and Gallardo, with Suppan as the 4th, and either Bush or Parra as the 5th.

 

What has changed in the rotation since the end of the year? Is Capuano now suddendly back to his 2005 form, because he record is back to 0-0? He's the guy who has to prove he's better than he was in 07. The guys who were starting at the end of 07 were there because they were the best they had. Did any of them become worse in November or December?

 

By the way, Jason Marquis will make nearly $7 million this year and $10 million next year for the Cubs, and he's not guaranteed a spot in their rotation.

[Ennder]

I think salary could be a good indicator of their roles. Vargas at 3.6 mil and Capuano at 3.75 mil are likely too highly paid to be long relievers. So either they are traded or in the rotation. My guess is Vargas is traded and Capuano at the back of the rotation.

Stevo, your logic suggest Craig Counsell should be the starter at 2B. After all, you can't have a guy making $2.8 million be the last guy on the bench.

 

Villanueva as a starter is 3-4 with a 3.01 ERA in 12 starts covering 71 2/3 innings. Last September in the heat of a race, he was 2-2 with a 1.99 ERA in 6 appearences, 5 of which he started.

 

Not only should he be a starter, he should be 3rd, behind Sheets and Gallardo, with Suppan as the 4th, and either Bush or Parra as the 5th.

 

What has changed in the rotation since the end of the year? Is Capuano now suddendly back to his 2005 form, because he record is back to 0-0? He's the guy who has to prove he's better than he was in 07. The guys who were starting at the end of 07 were there because they were the best they had. Did any of them become worse in November or December?

 

Last september in the heat of the race Capuano had a 2.81 ERA. The game before he got hurt he was sitting at 4-5 with a 3.80 ERA and should have had more wins than that. The year before that he had a 4.03 ERA, the year before that a 3.99, the year before that he was sitting at a 3.70 before pitching two games hurt against the Cubs. His actual peripherals suggest he was more unlucky than bad last year and his career peripherals suggest a low to mid 4 ERA pitcher which is a #3 starter.

 

I think he has shown a strong enough track record that they will justifiably give him another shot assuming he looks healthy.

[JohnBriggs12]

His 2.81 ERA was greatly helped by 4 shutout innings of relief against a Red team that featured Griffey, Dunn and Votto (all lefthanded hitters) in the middle of the order. Which shows just how valuable he'd be as a lefty long man when teams like the Reds stack lineups full of lefthanded power agains the Brewer right handed starters.

 

Capuano has always been much more effective against lefties primarily because he keeps the ball in the park. Against righthanded power though, he struggles allowing a lot of long balls.

[rluzinski]

Against righthanded power though, he struggles allowing a lot of long balls. You could make that same comment about 95% of the pitchers out there. Unless a pitcher is an extreme groundball pitcher, they are going to give up a bunch of HRs to same handed, power hitters. Would you expect otherwise? Cappy had a bad year but it really was no worse than Vargas's or Bush's. You need to look farther back than one season to assess a player's player's talent.

[gregmag]

Ennder makes a great case for Cappy in the rotation. John makes a good case for Villanueva in the rotation -- I think his so-so peripherals and limited sample size leave some cause for concern, but he has undeniably performed well as a starter. IMHO, you're both right. I think Bush goes to the pen, Parra goes to the pen (a la Villy last year) or AAA, and Vargas goes away.

 

I've been as big a Bush backer as anybody, and I still think he could emerge as a #3 starter, but I think he has five guys ahead of him who are better bets to succeed this year -- six if you count Parra, but you could defend giving Bush a shot ahead of Parra based on experience.

 

Vargas is a nice guy to have around, because he's a legit #5 starter, and a lot of teams don't have one of those. But we have no place to put him. He clearly has seven guys ahead of him for the rotation, and at least one of those guys ends up in the pen with Gagne-Riske-Torres-Shouse-Turnbow-Mota. Beyond those eight (!) pitchers, any one of McClung, Stetter, Pena, or Choate could emerge as a better bullpen option than Vargas. Given Vargas' salary, he almost has to be trade bait.

 

Greg.

[Patrick425]

Pitchers and catchers are still a month away. . .Why get concerned about games that haven't even been played yet?

 

The team is healthy, and for now, everyone but Cameron should be there from the start.

Not to pile on... you start worrying about April games in January and either you are over planning or overly paranoid.

Hmmm....isn't that what this whole forum is about? Discussing Brewer moves, trades, stats, front office, coaching, etc. Doesn't that all relate to trying to determine how they are going to do during the season?

[bullox]

Maybe you didn't get the memo...it's okay to be optimistic a few months in advance, just not pessimistic.

[logan82]

This thread is kind of funny since nobody thought we were going to suck 2 weeks ago. We aquire a guy who is going to miss games, move Braun and Hall to improve our defense and now we are somehow worse than before? Sorry, but that notion makes me laugh.

[DrWood]

I wonder what groundhog fricasse tastes like...

it is a groundhog, isn't it, bullox?

[bullox]

If at first you fricassee, fry, fry a hen.

 

I don't really know btw. All I know is that it looks like the one from Caddyshack. Which I believe was a gopher. "Greasy grimy gopher guts"

[DrWood]

If at first you fricassee, fry, fry a hen.

 

I don't really know btw. All I know is that it looks like the one from Caddyshack. Which I believe was a gopher. "Greasy grimy gopher guts"

I think the one from Caddyshack was actually "Hollywoodensis puppetus", or furry puppet.

 

[Oldcity]

I think salary could be a good indicator of their roles. Vargas at 3.6 mil and Capuano at 3.75 mil are likely too highly paid to be long relievers. So either they are traded or in the rotation. My guess is Vargas is traded and Capuano at the back of the rotation.

Stevo, your logic suggest Craig Counsell should be the starter at 2B. After all, you can't have a guy making $2.8 million be the last guy on the bench.

..........

By the way, Jason Marquis will make nearly $7 million this year and $10 million next year for the Cubs, and he's not guaranteed a spot in their rotation.

Couple points. It's not like the Brewers are dealing with a surplus of similarly-talented middle infielders, in which case it would make the most sense to deal Counsell/whoever is making the most. They have a surplus of starting pitchers (which isn't really a problem, but that's a different point). My point is when you have eight guys worthy of starting, it makes sense to shed the one with the least desirable "bang for the buck" value. At over 3 mil, that has to be Vargas.

And Jason Marquis does make a lot, but the comparison to the Brewers doesn't work because the Cubs print their own money.

 

[areacodes]

So you're telling me that Yost is that dumb to ignore the outstanding job Villanueva did in the heat of race and put him in the pen where he no longer would have a key role? Even I don't think Yost is that stupid.

 

 

Wouldn't the decision be more than just Yost's? It seems if the Brewers decided to put Villy in the pen (not that I agree with the hypothetical decision) wouldn't that be a decision that Yost, Melvin and Maddux made?

 

 

Also, on a side note… what about the possibility of trying to sneak Vargas through waivers? I have seen some posters say he has little to no trade value at $3.6 million (even though I disagree to some extent, I just don't know how much value he has although I believe we could at least get some prospect for him). He'd be really nice insurance at AAA in case of an injury. I don't really know how the waiver system works completely, so I'm not even sure if that would be an option. I understand that he'd be hard to sneak through since I know teams would love to have him if they didn't have to give up any talent in return, but wouldn't that still work out for the Crew since we wouldn't have him tying up a roster spot?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Aside from the fact that at $3.5 mil. Vargas most certainly does have trade value, if the Brewers were to assume even just $1 mil. of that number, then you're talking a serviceable SP making less than many RP nowadays. Fans are just getting impatient, imo.

[lukevan]

There's just no reason to trade (or DFA someone) from our plethora of starting pitching until some kind of productive deal comes along. Spring training will sort out who goes where. Someone will have an injury hit and Vargas can be their plan B. At this point, any kind of meaningful prospect would be a haul.