Neyer compares Gallardo with Lincecum

[MessiahRp]

Interesting comparison, although I think Gallardo will be better in the long run because I think his arm will hold up longer...

 

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=18879&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

[Ennder]

Zeal (Maine): Your Top 5 Favorite young pitchers 25 and Younger?

 

Will Carroll: Gallardo

Lincecum

Kazmir

Hernandez (but his arm's going to explode)

Kershaw (probably higher, but only seen film)

 

Seemed like a good thread to put it in. I respect Will Carroll quite a bit and when he picks Gallardo over Lincecum it means a good bit to me. I think Lincecum is going to have control issues compared to Gallardo and that will be the key. Guys with busy deliveries tend to have problems with consistency. However, Lincecum pitches in a much better pitchers park so it is an uphill battle for Gallardo as long as people are judging pitchers by ERA.

[Patrick425]

I think his arm will hold up longer...

Why do you say that? Because of Lincecum's small frame? Did you ever see a slow-mo of Lincecum's delivery? It's unbelievable how he uses his lower body to leap off the pitching rubber. Because of that, I think he'll avoid arm injuries more than you might expect from a guy his size.

 

http://www.pitchingclips.com/players/tim_lincecum.htm

[strawbossisevil]

I just read that as well. I think Lincecum's stuff is definitely more electric than Gallardo's. That said, with his strange mechanics, I don't think he'll ever have the control that Gallardo does. Gallardo had remarkable control of where the ball goes, and has amazing control of three plus pitches (and he's working on a fourth w/ the slider). Lincecum is more of a two pitch pitcher (fastball, curveball), although that curveball is as good as Sheets'.

 

Pros for Lincecum:

Strikeout rate (second in the majors last season behind Peavy)

Throws harder, faster fastball, sharper curveball.

 

Pros for Gallardo:

Control. Walks a batter less per game.

Greater assortment of plus pitches.

Less Violent Mechanics.

[TooLiveBrew]

Lincecum is more of a two pitch pitcher (fastball, curveball), although that curveball is as good as Sheets'.

 

Plus, when his fastball is 'on', it's swirling around like a Matt Wise changeup

[MessiahRp]

Patrick, IIRC one of the things I had read said Lincecum put a lot of innings on his arm before he was even a pro and with his smaller frame, I am speculating of course, I would tend to think his arm will wear down faster than Gallardo's.

 

Of course opinions are all subjective in nature anyway.

 

Rp

[DrWood]

it just seems that he throws so violently, I don't know how he can hold up as a starter. Of course, a guy that's built to throw and does so effortlessly can blow out his arm, too.

[And That]

I feel rather detached from this debate as a Brewer fan because we have one of the guys involved in the discussion. It's not like we can debate which guy we'd trade for or anything because we already have one of the guys. Linecum might be better or more Koufaxian or whatever, but we have Gallardo and I'm cool with that. I'll let the debate go to the fans of the 28 teams that aren't lucky enough to have one of these guys.

[MillerParkSouth]

Another point for Gallardo is that i'm assuming he handles the stick a lot better than Lincecum, which I think is a fairly underrated aspect of an NL pitcher's game.

[sbrylski]

I always considered the biggest asset Gallardo has is that he's a great "pitcher" who also happens to be a really good "thrower." Control and maturity on the mound I would think would lead to more consistent success and sooner.

[jordanmuehl]

Another point for Gallardo is that i'm assuming he handles the stick a lot better than Lincecum, which I think is a fairly underrated aspect of an NL pitcher's game.

I didn't really think about that while reading the article, but now that you mention it, that's a very valid point.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

Lincecum's build is similar to Roy Oswalt who's one of the most durable pitchers in the game.

 

You just never know. Prior was supposed to have the perfect build for a pitcher.

[bobbledude25]

I think the key here is Gallardo is two and a half years younger then Lincecum and his control is already outstanding. Sure Lincecum throws harder and everyone is fascinated now-a-days by how hard a guy can throw. Look at guys like Maddux and Glavine who top out at 85 and are still winning around 15 games a year. Mental makeup and control are two huge reasons why. I think Gallardo already has the edge there. Lincecum is only a two pitch pitcher like already mentioned which can cause problems down the road unless he develops a third pitch.

[Tbadder]

I'd rather have Gallardo, but I also think horrors of horrors, he may have already topped out. I really can't see him getting any better other than gaining stamina and pitching more innings. Lincecum seems to have way more potential, but I'm guessing he never sees it for the reasons given above. I think Gallardo could be one of those guys you just pencil in 15 wins automatic, and those few years that he runs in luck, well, those are the years he gets significant votes for the Cy Young.

 

PS. Oh yeah, and I totally agree he's got some serious game changing stick that's gonna win a few games extra for himself.

[SmartBall]

Love the comments about the bat, it really is an underrated part of a NL pitchers game. I remember watching Lincecum in his first few starts and I was just awed by his stuff, and he gave up at least 4 runs each time I saw him. I remember seeing Yo and being thrilled with his poise and maturity and 7 innings later he had given up 1 run. I love YO because he seems like one of those guys that the other team feels like they are one or two mistakes away from just killing, only those mistakes never come. I think Lincecum is more electric, but long term I love YO.

[beckyjean69]

I am much more impressed with Lincecum. His stuff is amazing, and I do not see any injuries developing. One poster has said it though already, "you just never know." Randy Johnson had major control issues early on in his career as well and it took him quite a long time to figure them out. I think Lincecum is the guy with potential to win Cy Young awards with his stuff, as Gallardo will always be a nice pitcher who wins games. When he arrived up with the Brewers last year, it seemed kind of anti climatic for me. I had expected him to just blow people away (like Lincecum) knowing that he had this big curveball and threw hard.

[TooLiveBrew]

He really did blow guys away, though. Gallardo piled up plenty of Ks - and many came on straight cheese.

[dlk9s]

I moderate section of a popular poker forum and one guy on there (who instructs both pitchers and hitters, I believe), posted about Lincecum's mechanics. I thought it was interesting:

 

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=95946&highlight=lincecum

[Patrick425]

I moderate section of a popular poker forum and one guy on there (who instructs both pitchers and hitters, I believe), posted about Lincecum's mechanics. I thought it was interesting:

Yes, I have seen similar comments posted about Lincecum on other sites. Prior seems to be built very sturdy with tree trunk legs, but he doesn't use his legs and torso nearly as much as Lincecum. I think if anything, Lincecum will end up having back issues more than anything having to do with the arm.

 

It's kind of like Tiger Woods. If you look at his swing when he first entered the tour, it was a very violent, almost uncontrolled, swing. He realized that his body would not allow him to continue this type of swing as he got older and so he went to a more controlled swing that he could continue to use as he get's older. I'll be curious to see if Lincecum can continue that same motion as he gets older.

[JoeHova]

Neyer talks about Lincecum's K rate being so great at 9.2 per 9 but Gallardo's was 8.2 per 9 and he's 2 years younger. I can definitely see him making that gap up in 2 years. As for stuff, Gallardo seems to have a nice repertoire to me. His fastball isn't as good as Lincecum's but whose is? Verlander's and that's about it (among starters).

 

If this was a debate between similar hitters, I would always take the younger guy. With pitchers though, people say that just lasting until your mid-20's is a big accomplishment so it might be better to go with the older guy because he has already lasted a few more years than the younger guy.

 

I am a little worried that so much of the Brewers' hopes hinge on a 22 year old pitcher (just because of injury concerns), but what can you do? We just have to hope for the best.

[ILuvDaBush]

Going into last year, most would argue the top 5 pitching prospects were...

 

Hughes

Bailey

Yo

Lincecum

Garza....usually in that order.

 

Now....

 

1. YO!

2. Lincecum

3. Hughes

4. Garza

5. Bailey

 

You just cannot fake the poise Yo has on the mound. AJ Burnett may have a better repertoire, but I'll take Roy Halladay everyday.

[jnorman76]

I think his arm will hold up longer...

Why do you say that? Because of Lincecum's small frame? Did you ever see a slow-mo of Lincecum's delivery? It's unbelievable how he uses his lower body to leap off the pitching rubber. Because of that, I think he'll avoid arm injuries more than you might expect from a guy his size.

 

http://www.pitchingclips.com/players/tim_lincecum.htm

Comparable to Billy Wagner? Both are VA boys, I think.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

VA really has some talent, huh - I know David Wright's a 'ginian, too.

[JohnBriggs12]

ESPN fantasy guru Eric Karabell, in a stunning bit of love for a Brewer, this morning stated that he has both Gallardo and Lincecum in his top 10 of NL pitchers. He has Gallardo ahead of Brad Penny. He also actually pointed to the Colorado game as skewing Gallardo's 07 stats.

 

Gallardo's emergence as an ace to me would be the best possible scenario that a Brewer fan could hope for. It would enable them to go forward without feeling obligated to pay the unreliable Sheets, saving millions that could be used to lock up core hitters.

[Ennder]

I'm surprised anyone would put Penny in the top 10, he is a 3.90-4.00 ERA guy of 2005/2006 not the guy who had some good luck last year to suppress his ERA.