Trade Pitching for a Catching Prospect?

[Big Reed]

Dr wood:

 

here is my quote:

 

I have his rookie card and it is worth a lot more than a lot of other players' rookie cards. Uke's Topps' rookie card was very optimistic about his future. Uke was a pretty good hitter in the minors. but his strengths were supposedly his strong arm and defense.

 

Bob Uecker Topps 1963. this is the quote from the back of the card: "Bob, who can smack a long ball, led the American Association's catchers in fielding in 1961." His card sells for around $20 in 2008.

 

here is a quote from the Northern league:

Uecker survived in baseball with good defensive skills and a rifle arm. Bob played minor league ball from 1956-1961 and 1963 for 12 teams with 3 seasons hitting over .300. He was at class AAA for 4 seasons and, in 1961, led all catchers in fielding for Louisville (IL).

 

http://www.usfamily.net/web/trombleyd/Northern%20PlayersRZ.htm#Bob%20Uecker

 

here is a quote from the baseball library:

Baseball's resident jokester batted over .300 three times in the minors but swung a weak stick in the majors. He survived on good defensive ability and a rifle arm. Playing for Louisville in 1961 in the American Association, he led all catchers in fielding.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Bob_Uecker_1935

 

here is a quote from Wikopedia:

He was a mediocre hitter who finished with a career batting average of .200. He was a sound defensive player and committed very few errors in his Major League career as a catcher. His career fielding percentage was .981.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Uecker

 

I didn't know much about Uecker when I was a child. I was a White Sox fan. But I can read a book, and I collect baseball cards. When Uecker was elected to the hall of Fame there were a lot of things written about him by baseball historians. I believe those three respected baseball sites echoed my sentiments about Uecker almost verbatem. I don't appreciate being labeled as a person who just makes stuff up.

[yoshii8]

What about Ryan Doumit as the backup C? Apparantly the Red Sox are interested in him, and he rakes against righties. What would it take to get him from the Pirates. Why would they trade him?

[cooprules]

With Molina signed long term I think Bryan Anderson would be a great target. We may have to overpay but it sounds like he's going to be pretty good.

[DrWood]

it's a far cry from leading a minor league in fielding to being considered a top prospect.

[Gopher74]

Dr wood:

 

here is my quote:

 

I have his rookie card and it is worth a lot more than a lot of other players' rookie cards. Uke's Topps' rookie card was very optimistic about his future. Uke was a pretty good hitter in the minors. but his strengths were supposedly his strong arm and defense.

Actually, this is your original quote in which DrWood questioned you.

 

I recall Bob Uecker being thought of very highly when he was a AAA catcher and even in his rookie year. and then he opened his mouth and his value plumetted. the braves loss is the brewers' gain.

I can understand him questioning when you first say "I recall" suggesting that you experienced it yourself and followed it yourself which, by the way, is very different from saying, "when he was elected to the HOF this is what I heard people say about him".

[Robideaux]

Try Gerald Laird as the new Kelly Shoppach around here. I have no idea what the obsession with this guy is all about.

I wouldn't tout Laird as the bee's knees, the cat's pajamas, or the the sardines whiskers, but you could do worse for a backup catcher/upside guy. I'm not his agent or a member of his fan club, but here is the best argument I can make that he would be worth Vargas or Gwynn in a trade.

 

1. He has an arm. He has thrown out over 41% of opponents attempting to steal. I don't know what his reputation otherwise as a defender is, but after the noodle-armed backstops of the last few years, I wouldn't mind being able to bring in a guy that can shut down the opponents' running game.

 

2. He kinda hit in the minors. Career minor league numbers: .271/.344/.406 His best season was at age 25 in AAA (.310/.380/.562) The team OPS was 844 so the numbers can't be taken at face value, but he still outpaced the team average by a wide margin.

 

3. He hit ok/got lucky in 2006 for the Rangers. .296 / .332 / .473 It might be a career year though. His BABIP was around .350, which he won't sustain over a longer period of time.

 

4. He is still fairly young: 28. I think I've heard that catchers sometimes take longer to develop. Kendall's no long term solution (and he might not even be a good 2007 solution). Laird might be able to bridge the gap between Kendall and Salome/Lucroy/CTBD

 

5. He was once a second round pick--that was a while ago, but it shows that he had/has some tools that led him to be selected that highly.

 

6. He was really, really bad at the plate last season .224 / .278/ .349. That might seem like a bad thing, but if it means that his value is low so a Vargas or Gwynn could net a good glove/ bad bat catcher, it could be a good thing. Plus his 2007 BABIP (.274) was lower that his career average (.300), so luck alone would seem to dictate that he is due for slight up tick in hitting (all other things being equal)

 

7. He doesn't have a big career home road split (actually slightly better on the road), so what you see is what you get.

 

Career batting line of .244/.297/.377. That's pretty much what Estrada gave us offensively last season, but with a .415 CS% versus .131 CS%. Also Laird stole 6 bases last season (as well as 60 in his minor league career) which means that he isn't a complete albatross on the base paths. Furthermore, his bad 2007 makes his career numbers seem really bad because they constitute almost half of his career PA. His numbers up to that point combined with his minor league stats suggest that his actual baseline is a bit higher than his career numbers would indicate. ZiPS has him pegged at .249/.305/.391 which sounds reasonable. (going in to last season they guessed at .270/.320/.441.) If he could hit somewhere between those two projection (not a given obviously) with his arm he'd be an upgrade at catcher over what we have now at backup, and conceivably better than Kendall as well.

.

 

He's probably the third best catcher on the Rangers (if Salty is a C), so he might be somewhat cheap to get.

[vannzee]

I like Rob Johnson from Seattle, hes as good as Clement and his stats in some spots are even better. Ryan Doumit from Pittsburgh is also intresting but a cheaper option would be Bobby Wilson from the Angels. The Reds have Ryan Hanigan and the Blue Jays have Curtis Thgpen and Robinzon Diaz. But if your looking lower down dont forget Colt Armstrong of the White sox.

[Big Reed]

i know this is a really dumb question to ask, but how bad was Estrada last year? We all know he did have injuries last year. Could it have been his injuries that led him to being such a lousy catcher? I know he didn't like to run out grounders either. Could that have also been injury related? I say this because he is still available and probably better than the majority of catching prospects available. or was he just a lazy bum who argued a lot with the pitching coach and no pitcher had confidence in him calling a game?

 

Estrada can still hit the ball. could it be he might be able to find a job with a team at a different position ala Dave Nilsson?

 

I won't use as I recall anymore.

[DrWood]

obviously there is something going on with estrada beyond his hitting and his inability to throw out guys. Otherwise the mets wouldn't have non-tendered him or another team would have jumped at signing him.

Having said that, I also thought, "what about signing estrada", but then realized it was a bad idea.