Trade Pitching for a Catching Prospect?

[Jarjohm]

From MLBTradeRumors.com:

What do you see the Milwaukee Brewers doing with their pitching surplus? Do you see them maybe using some of their excess pitchers like Capuano and Bush to acquire a young catcher with some upside? - Tyler

We've seen it a million times - these winter pitching surpluses turn into deficits by May. There is certainly a case to be made for the Brewers to just stand pat, though all those arms would be tough to squeeze in given the bullpen acquisitions. MLB.com's Adam McCalvy expects some of the surplus to be traded before Spring Training. I like the catcher idea - Jeff Clement (Mariners), Bryan Anderson (Cardinals), or Taylor Teagarden/Gerald Laird (Rangers) seem like possible matches.

The Mariners (Clement) and Rangers (Teagarden) would seem to be good trade partners if the Brewers are looking for a catching prospect since they both have prospects blocked by starters in the big leagues, but I doubt the Cardinals (Anderson) would trade a prospect within the division and the Brewers probably wouldn't be too excited to improve the Cardinals' rotation either. Clement seems to come up a lot this offseason (the new Kelly Shoppach?), but if the Mariners get Bedard (as is rumored), I doubt they'd still be looking to add a number four or five guy.

[dadofandrew]

Teams with young catching and young pitching do not like to trade them, to say the least. You might be able to get a guy like Laird, whose numbers are pretty bad, but no high-ceiling guys.

[Jarjohm]

Teams with young catching and young pitching do not like to trade them, to say the least. You might be able to get a guy like Laird, whose numbers are pretty bad, but no high-ceiling guys.

That's true. I have no idea how highly the teams regard these guys. I just meant they were good trade partners in that they are looking for pitching and the Brewers could target their catching prospects. I'm not suggesting the teams would trade a highly regarded catching prospect for a number four or five pitcher alone.

 

[Tbadder]

I doubt will get Clement as I see him in the Bedard sweepstakes. Laird would be perfect though, relatively cheap and a big help on defense (though an offensive liability).

[sbrylski]

Clement seems to come up a lot this offseason (the new Kelly Shoppach?)

 

Try Gerald Laird as the new Kelly Shoppach around here. I have no idea what the obsession with this guy is all about.

[Big Reed]

I want Teagarden. but looking at the price the rangers paid to acquire Saltamachia (teixierra) , and the price the braves paid the phillies to acqire estrada (MillWood) and the price the brewers paid for Estrada ( Davis); I would have to believe the rangers' asking price is going to be higher than what the brewers want to give up. Rather than accepting bush or vargas as part of a trade, the Rangers signed Jennings without giving up anybody.

[Gopher74]

The Mariners (Clement) and Rangers (Teagarden) would seem to be good trade partners if the Brewers are looking for a catching prospect since they both have prospects blocked by starters in the big leagues, but I doubt the Cardinals (Anderson) would trade a prospect within the division and the Brewers probably wouldn't be too excited to improve the Cardinals' rotation either. Clement seems to come up a lot this offseason (the new Kelly Shoppach?), but if the Mariners get Bedard (as is rumored), I doubt they'd still be looking to add a number four or five guy.

I love the Clement idea, but that seems awfully far fetched to me. A potential power hitting catcher, a number 3-4 hitter potentially(probably more like a 5, but still) for a pitcher that we really need to get rid of? Doug Melvin's done more, and Bavasi isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Maybe Capuano+Escobar for Clement? Put that final piece of the puzzle into the system? Hell, that'd be a great addition for this years team.

 

[Big Reed]

Would the brewers be willing to give up one of their young stud pitching prospects for a young stud catching prospect? Would the brewers give up a Parra or jeffress or Villenueva for a Teagarden or Clement?

[Bnowell4evr]

The only fear I have on this team is if Kendall goes down with an injury. Im not drinking the Vinny Rottino Kool Aid and Eric Munson and Mike Rivera scare the **** outa me if they were called upon to start for the majority of the year.

 

I dont know what it would take to get someone like Miguel Olivio from the Royals. Hes nothing special but he has some pop and I think id rather have him catching than Eric Munson. Their pitching staff is pretty weak you think theyd be interested in a Vargas along with Seth Mclung?

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't think teams will give up a young catcher with any more upside than those already in the Brewer system. Those types have more value than back of rotation starters.

 

Laird is a possibility but the Rangers just signed Jason Jennings so their need isn't as great.

 

Brandon Inge is another name out there who is on the block. He's expensive and hasn't caught in a few years though Detroit has talked about moving him back behind the plate some this year. Detroit has 5 solid starters, but no veteran backing them up so they might have interest.

[lukevan]

I think Olivo just signed with KC so they probably wouldn't turn around and trade him. There just isn't much for depth at the C position, so those teams lucky enough to have a high ceiling guy are most likely going to hang onto him unless they are blown away by a really great offer. Needless to say, throwing Vargas out there won't fetch much.

 

I think it would be smart for the Brewers to have one more backup plan at catcher, though that can be addressed during the season as well.

[Big Reed]

catching prospects usually command a premium in return. I was just thinking if I was a Gm , I'd just keep drafting the best catcher in the draft, and then trade them for veterans later. you wouldn't need to draft pitchers whose arms flame out in the minors. you could just draft a catcher and then trade him for a veteran pitcher. Something to think about with catchers- if they can't hit, they are still valuable if they can call a good game and can throw out runners. On the flip side, if they can hit , but can't catch, there is still a market for them - look at Estrada.

[DrWood]

johjima might come more cheaply than clement. that would be a great addition, but then what would you say to kendall, who came here to start?

[hauser42]

Balt is not even sold that Clement is a C, and is talking he would be moved to 1B if they got him.

 

I'm not willing to give up pitching prospects for a C prospect. Lot of times a young catcher gets moved becaue he can not handle behind the plate duties.

 

I like the idea of bring in in veteran catchers that know to call a game, play good D, and a add a little punch to the offense. This is not fantasy baseball it is the real deal.

[twobrewers]

On the flip side, if they can hit , but can't catch, there is still a market for them - look at Estrada.

And where is Estrada right now?

 

Just saying...

[Big Reed]

What i was saying was Estrada was worth a lot when he was in the minors. everybody looked at his offensive stats, and nobody really paid much attention to his defensive weaknesses. the braves gave up kevin millwood after an 18-8 season to the Phillies for Estrada. The Dbacks gave up Villareal and Cormier for estrada. the brewers gave up Davis for estrada and vargus. the mets gave up mota for estrada and then cut him. estrada was worth a lot when he was still a AAA catcher. but as he played more mmajor league games, his flaws became more obvious, and his trade value plummeted.

 

I recall Bob Uecker being thought of very highly when he was a AAA catcher and even in his rookie year. and then he opened his mouth and his value plumetted. the braves loss is the brewers' gain.

 

Clement is a great hitter with suspect catching skills. teagarden is also a great hitter with supposedly a great arm. Do you take the chance and go after them now? or do you wait another year and risk their asking price being higher?

[DrWood]

Big Reed wrote: I recall Bob Uecker being thought of very highly when he was a AAA catcher and even in his rookie year. and then he opened his mouth and his value plumetted. the braves loss is the brewers' gain.

 

I suspect you are making this up. First, you'd have to be well into your 50's to have remembered uecker in AAA, second, he was an undrafted free agent, not something that is usually a highly-ranked prospect, third, back around 1960 there wasn't a lot of coverage of the minors.

[Big Reed]

Dr Wood, I'm 51. I was a White Sox fan as a kid. Smokey Burgess was my favorite catcher and Tommy John was starting and Hoyt Wilhem was relieving. Moose Skowron was on first with Buford and Hanson at second and short. I forgot who played third, but it was before Melton. Tommy Agee and Ken Berry and Dave Nicholson were roaming the outfield. I didn't need to go to wikopedia to look those names up. those names are from memory. The Braves had left town. The things I remember about Bob Uecker are mostly written historical facts/accounts by national baseball analysists/historinas and what is printed on his baseball cards and from his own interviews. I have his rookie card and it is worth a lot more than a lot of other players' rookie cards. Uke's Topps' rookie card was very optimistic about his future. Uke was a pretty good hitter in the minors. but his strengths were supposedly his strong arm and defense. if you take a look at his stats, you'll see he lasted in the majors a lot longer than he should have based on his stats alone. His OBP was not the best. There are a lot of historical facts written about Bob Uecker.

 

Dr Wood , I don't make things up. I am often wrong; misunderstood; and I am very opinionated; and my memory is not the greatest; and I'm often sarcastic; and I'm very pessimistic; and I'm not in love with the OBP stat, but I don't just make things up. Well, sometimes I do, but not in this case.

[colbyjack]

I can't even think of the last time a catching prospect was traded for anything less than a substantial or at least a projected impact player. Heck, even Einar Diaz fetched the Indians Travis Hafner.

 

The Brewers spare parts are probably not going to be able to acquire a young catcher of substance. Giving up what is necessary to land such a player just isn't worth it, and sadly it's probably better to stick with backups such as Eric Munson and Mike Rivera, or even Lou Palmisano, should Kendall be lost to injury.

 

And since Miguel Olivo's name was brought up, he's a guy I thought of two last fall when he was talked about as a non-tender candidate. After looking at his numbers, which are downright horrible, I quickly erased his name as an option. Again, Munson, Rivera and Palmisano are all just as good of options.

[DrWood]

reed, so you were following minor league players when you were 4? That's when Bob was in the minors. The Braves hadn't left town yet; I sorta still remember when they were in town, and I'm younger than you. You might not think you are making it up, but I still suspect rather creative memories.

[sbrylski]

reed, so you were following minor league players when you were 4? That's when Bob was in the minors. The Braves hadn't left town yet; I sorta still remember when they were in town, and I'm younger than you. You might not think you are making it up, but I still suspect rather creative memories.

Naw, I'd trust Reed - he's not one to make things up.

[DrWood]

sbrylski, I take it you can't get your messages to be blue either?

[sbrylski]

sbrylski, I take it you can't get your messages to be blue either?

No, I mean it when I say I trust Reed to not blatantly make things up. Your telling me that you know nothing about player who played when you were young? I'm only 20, but I know plenty about guys drafted in the 80's.

[MNBrew]

Sorry to sidetrack from the current tone of the thread, but the Millwood/Estrada trade reference/diagnosis earlier in the thread is a bit off...

 

Kevin Millwood was 18-8 that year and arby eligible. The Braves had enough other money tied up in their pitching staff and elsewhere on their roster (this was after Ted Turner had sold the team, I'm pretty sure, so they had gotten into the mode of some financial restraint with certain players) and Millwood -- a Boras client, I think -- was going to be justifiably asking for the moon. The only financially sane alternative the Braves had was to trade Millwood. But everyone knew the Millwood had the Braves over the proverbial barrel and no one was playing ball (fairly) with them in trade talks. The whole buzz when the Millwood trade went down was that Estrada was a stud catching prospect, but everyone figured the Braves should've gotten a whole lot more than just him. Remember, it was a one-for-one deal. Millwood had had a fantastic year. The Braves also felt there was some degree of a career year to it, that Millwood was a good pitcher but not realistically that good of a pitcher to do that every year. But the arby process is not about scouting reports, it's about production. It spoke volumes about baseball economics at the time and how little leverage the Braves had.

 

So it's not that Millwood was what the Braves had to give up to get Estrada. It's that Estrada was all they could get when they were stuck and had to trade Millwood.

[DrWood]

sbrylski, I take it you can't get your messages to be blue either?

No, I mean it when I say I trust Reed to not blatantly make things up. Your telling me that you know nothing about player who played when you were young? I'm only 20, but I know plenty about guys drafted in the 80's.

 

The braves were still in town when I was 4 and I had absolutely no knowledge of anyone in the minors at that time. I did't even know what the Braves minor league affiliates were at that time, or even knew that such a thing existed. I might have remembered Aaron, Matthews, Spahn at that time. I doubt I knew anyone else at that age. I was a big fan starting around age 10 and probably the first player I can think of as a prospect was Molitor, and he didn't spend much time in the minors. There simply wasn't anywhere near the coverage of prospects back then as there has been the last 10-20 years. Uecker was a free agent signed by the hometown braves at age 21. He made it to the majors at age 27, and obviously never showed anything in the majors. reed may be remembering one of Uecker's quotes: "In 1962 I was named Minor League Player of the Year. It was my second season in the Bigs." IT WAS A JOKE!