greinke, teahen, for villanueva, et al.

[DrWood]

Let's still trade with KC, even though things appear to be set.

KC gives:
Zach Greinke
Mark Teahen

MKE gives:
Carlos Villanueva
Bush OR Capuano

Seth McClung

Gabe Gross

Prospect

 

[Brian the Automator]

Where does Teahen play?

[rousieboy]

Bush, BHall, McClung for Grienke and Teahen?

[Wesrob1]

Why? You must be a closet Royals fan...

[twobrewers]

Where does Teahen play?

Exactly. I miss having a glaring hole on the Brewers roster. The Transaction Rumors/Proposals forum has been pretty dull since acquiring Cameron.

 

No real reason to make any trades at this point. (Unless you are trading Vargas for a prospect)

[DrWood]

teahen plays some 3b (50-80 games vs. righties), plays some corner OF (particularly before Cameron appears), plays some 1b if needed, does some PH, maybe DH.

 

teahen and hall both become super subs. teahen the LH version. Heckuva versatile roster, particularly if Dillon is also on it. If one of those guys warrants playing every day, make a trade later to acquire something for a playoff run.

 

I think there is a big reason to trade--8 starters is too many. this thins things out by one (and greinke can relieve, too), and greinke has great stuff and lots of upside. Trade now, or trade during ST when some team needs a starter--who's to say when you'll get a better deal?

[Brian the Automator]

teahen and hall both become super subs. teahen the LH version. Heckuva versatile roster, particularly if Dillon is also on it. If one of those guys warrants playing every day, make a trade later to acquire something for a playoff run.

The problem is that you'll never get the players to buy into that. Going from a starting role to a part-time role means less money eventually for them. It's one thing if a player stinks and you stick them on the bench, or if you sign them with the intention of not guaranteeing them a role, but it's another thing when you stash them away there against their will.

 

Bill Hall and Mark Teahen are both full-time players, and even though they have no "legal" recourse against being part-time players, it's a big factor to consider.

[DrWood]

well, they can always rake and earn being in the lineup everyday.

[chadomac]

you don't trade Villanueva right now. it's not smart.

[DrWood]

you don't trade Villanueva right now. it's not smart.

I disagree. I think his trade value is high right now relative to his ceiling. So if you get quality in return (and Greinke has a higher ceiling), you jump at the chance.

 

 

[Gopher74]

I would love this trade. I honestly think that the Royals would want more in return if they're going to offer up Grienke, but Teahen would fix that remaining hole in this team, the left handed bat in your lineup, and he also improves the teams OBP.

 

He doesn't have as much pop as Hall does, but I think most of us can agree that we don't really need much a great deal of power.

 

Hall+Bush/Capuano+Escobar or a similar prospect for Greinke+Teahen

 

Greinke looks like he could be that future closer for this team, solving that problem potentially, or he could very possibly be an ace, so he gives your pitching staff that much more versatility, and Teahen is that 3rd basemen we were looking for who hits left handed and could fit into the number 2 spot in our lineup.

 

The Royals have wanted that right handed bat as they're a very Left handed heavy lineup, we want the left handed bat as we're a very right handed heavy lineup, and we get a young potential ace.

 

Of course I don't think there is a chance the Royals do this, but if they would, I'd jump at the chance.

[aracko]

Id love this deal. Id want to hold onto Billy Hall though. Teahan can play 3rd base and backup at 1st and OF. Hall could play utility man/supersub.

 

I just think that we are askign for way too much from the Royals. Players like Teahan and Grienke are the guys they should be building their team around. Zack has got some of the best stuff I have ever seen.

 

I think it would take 2 top guys like CV and Parra to get these 2 guys.

 

Grienke is going to be the best player in this deal.

[Tbadder]

I'd love the 2nd itineration fo this trade (Bush, Hall,etc for Grienke, Teahen) but with Grienke's Suppan-like contract I doubt it could ever happen.

[Gopher74]

I'd love the 2nd itineration fo this trade (Bush, Hall,etc for Grienke, Teahen) but with Grienke's Suppan-like contract I doubt it could ever happen.

I don't understand, Greinke's in arbitration right now, isn't he? I didn't think he'd signed a long term deal, and if he did, it definitely wouldn't be a Suppan like deal.

 

But like I said, there's a reason you like that deal...because we win it. Heck, we win it with Villanueva. I'd imagine that to seriously get this type of deal done, we're talking Villy, Hall AND Cappy for Greinke and Teahen. But hey, maybe Doug can take Drayton out and get him a little buzzed.

[DrWood]

I think tbadder may be confusing greinke and meche, who does have a contract that slightly exceeds suppan.

[Gopher74]

I think tbadder may be confusing greinke and meche, who does have a contract that slightly exceeds suppan.

Oh yea, I didn't even think about that. Meche was 5 years 55 million, right?

 

Speaking of which, I'd rather have given that money to Mench with hindsight being 20/20. At the time last year I wanted him...though wouldn't have felt comfortable with 11 million average annual salary.

[dadofandrew]

I don't know why you would want to weaken the pitching staff to acquire depth.

[DrWood]

I don't know why you would want to weaken the pitching staff to acquire depth.

by adding greinke you are improving the pitching staff while decreasing depth (by losing villy and another starter).

 

[dadofandrew]

Greinke has a near 5 ERA as a starter, passable, but no improvement. He's a decent reliever, but trading a pair of 200 inning guys for a backup and a reliever doesn't equal out as an improvement to me.

[DrWood]

I'm not the only guy that thinks Greinke is the best guy in the proposed trade (read the posts above). He's only 24. He finally started showing his potential last season, even though KC keeps jerking him around.

[Ennder]

He is also a headcase and they don't know if he'll ever develop into a good pitcher because of it. Teahen doesn't have a stronger track record than Hall and isn't considered a good fielder at 3B. This trade might increase our long term upside but it is way too risky in the short term.

[Gopher74]

Greinke has a near 5 ERA as a starter, passable, but no improvement. He's a decent reliever, but trading a pair of 200 inning guys for a backup and a reliever doesn't equal out as an improvement to me.

I usually find it worthless to use a pitchers career stats when he's 24 years old. Any player for that matter. Greinke has true ace type stuff, and he seems to have figured it out. Last year he had a 3.54 ERA as a reliever and a 3.80 ERA as a starter in the best division in baseball at 23 years old. He's more than a "decent reliever", and his ceiling really dwarfs that of Villanueva.

 

Second, I'm not sure who this second 200 inning guy is. Cappy and Bush certainly are, but he didn't suggest both, hence the slash between the two. He was talking about one of them. And Villanueva has never thrown 200 innings. In fact, in his major league career he's thrown 168 innings, so it's entirely premature to label him as a "200 inning" guy, meanwhile Greinke has thrown 183 innings as a starter, and given his age, he seems to be pretty durable health wise.

 

As for Teahen, he's not a backup. He's a 26 year old left hander who has been around the .290/.355 line the last two seasons, and he's a solid defender at 3rd. Likely better than what Bill Hall will provide.

He is also a headcase and they don't know if he'll ever develop into a good pitcher because of it. Teahen doesn't have a stronger track record than Hall and isn't considered a good fielder at 3B. This trade might increase our long term upside but it is way too risky in the short term.

 

Greinke was diagnosed with depression and social anxiety, and has "recovered" from and leaded to deal with those issues. I think his 2006 season proved as much. If you list all the pitchers, ranking them in terms of best stuff, Greinke would rank among the top 5 in the entire game among young aces or potential aces such as Lincecum, Joba, Liriano and Verlander. His natural ability is absolutely huge.

 

As for the Teahen comment, he's considered a superior defender to Bill Hall, and he provides this team with both a number 2 hitter, as well as a left handed hitter.

 

I think this not only improves this team this year, but makes us much stronger in the future along with giving us a great deal of versatility.

 

Lineup

1-Weeks® 2B

2-Teahen(L) 3B

3-Braun® LF

4-Prince(L) 1B

5-Hart® RF

6-Cameron® CF

7-Hardy®SS

8-Kendall® C

--------------

Bench

Hall® Top Utility Player Could and would still get 500 AB's

Gross(L)OF(this is if Hall is dealt, if not, he'd have been dealt)

Counsell(L) 2nd,3rd,SS

Dillon®1st,2nd,3rd,LF,RF

Rivera® C/Munson(L) C

 

--------------

Rotation

1-Sheets

2-Gallardo

3-Suppan

4-Greinke

5-Parra

This is under the scenario that we use Greinke out of the rotation

-----------------

Bullpen

CL-Gange

SU-Greinke

7th-Riske

MR-Turnbow

MR-Torres

MR-Mota

Loogy-Shouse

Long-/Bush/Capuano(whoever doesn't get moved in the deal)

Long-Vargas(I've made it clear that I feel as though Vargas can become a very good pitcher in a relief role. He throws harder coming out of the pen ihtting 95-96, has a good slider, and has always had a solid strand rate(73 pct). I also believe that as a reliever he'd go after hitters a little more thus lowering his whip by lowering the walks.

 

Ultimately, I think this makes our team significantly stronger this season.

1-Our lineup is more balanced

2-Better OBP with Teahen, and then figure he's going from the AL to NL and his numbers should see a small spike, especially playing in a great lineup.

3-Greinke is the most talented player in this deal. He could end up being the catalyst for a WS run in the future.

And the Royals get their young pitcher who they have more faith in, and they get their RH'ed hitter in Hall.

 

 

 

Edit-Replaced Manny Parra with Carlos Villanueva.

Note-Yes, I do have a 13 man staff to start out the year.

[dadofandrew]

Carlos V was to be included in the trade. It was Capuano or Bush and Carlos V.

[Gopher74]

Carlos V was to be included in the trade. It was Capuano or Bush and Carlos V.

Yea..yea, my mistake. I meant to replace Parra with Villanueva. Nice catch.

 

For the record, I hate the idea of giving Villanueva way, but I really think Greinke's going to be not only very good, but great.

 

[Tbadder]

I think tbadder may be confusing greinke and meche, who does have a contract that slightly exceeds suppan.

OMG, I am going senile. Thanks Wood.