1 Year deals = Sheets extension?

[Invader3K]

Hindsight being 20/20, shouldn't the Brewers have ponied up whatever Molly was asking for to keep him around? Not that it really has anything to do with Sheets...

Yes, they should have. There's no doubt in my mind.

As far as Sheets, it's no secret around here that I'm pretty down on him. If he was any other player, I'm convinced that virtually no one on this board would be calling for the Brewers to offer him some huge extension (I've seen figures like 4 years, $60million+). But, since he's "our guy", many on this forum want to keep him around.

 

Yes, he is good when he is healthy. Let's face facts, though. The Brewers aren't the Yankees or even the Cubs...it's extremely risky for a "middle of the pack" payroll team like Milwaukee to invest a ton of money in a pitcher who has been unreliable for the past three seasons. If Sheets is willing to accept some kind of "hometown discount" extension deal, then, fine. I doubt that is really going to happen, though. He's not getting any younger, and will probably want to test the market. That is his right, and what the player's union expects guys in his situation to do.

 

The worst case scenario is that the Brewers ride him out this year, he has a huge "contract year", and the Brewers end up getting a couple good draft picks as compensation when he signs with another team.

[kramnoj]

"Sheets has done nothing to get an extension from the Brewers, he has this year to prove himself or be moved for some useful parts for the future."

 

 

 

You think Sheets is going to be moved? I don't find that to be the likely scenario. If Sheets is doing well, then chances are the Brewers are going to be doing well, and I can't see the team trading Sheets away if the Brewers are in contention (flags fly forever, yada yada yada). If Sheets is injured, I don't see a team trading much for him. The only way I see Sheets being moved is if multiple injuries sink the Brewers season beyond hope.

[TooLiveBrew]

But, since he's "our guy", many on this forum want to keep him around.

 

This is insulting to anyone who is a believer in Sheets. It has nothing to do with him being 'our guy', 'your guy', 'their guy', or whoever's 'guy.' It has to do with the fact that he's an elite talent when it comes to pitching.

 

He's had his injuries, many of them maddeningly frustrating. But the bottom line is that, when he's on the mound, the Brewers don't have a better pitcher (YoGa could well surpass Ben in the near future). I do agree with the part of your argument that the value of a SP includes how much he can stay healthy. However, the notion that he's been "unreliable" doesn't hold water with me. Many, many SP go down each year with injures - the ones who can stay up like Oswalt (& also match that talent level) are extremely rare. The fact is that we don't have a SP who can provide us with 150 IP of the quality that Ben can. Do we have some/could we get some that could simply offer us 50 more IP in a year? Sure - Suppan's one... but that doesn't make them better SPs imho.

 

So unless he completely prices his way outta town, I see no reason why the Brewers shouldn't retain their most talented SP.

[TheCrew07]

In a world where it seems there's always someone who can find something "insulting" is it really necessary to get insulted by someone's opinion about a player?

 

 

 

I still like Brady Clark, he's my kind of guy, I had no problem with Geno constantly reminding me how useless he thought Brady was. Sometimes we all take things way too personally.

 

 

 

The simple truth is that Sheets iIS injury prone.... there's an old military saying that's been spun off a bunch of different ways but essentially, "1st time is an accident, 2nd time is coincidence, 3rd time is Enemy Action". He was hurt once early is his career, now he's missed significant time (last year at the worst possible time in my opinion) 3 years in a row. He's a very good pitcher when he's healthy, but is it in the best interests of the long term health of the Milwaukee Brewers to spend 15 million on 140 innings in a year, regardless of who the player is? I would say no, but I'm not a GM, and people much smarter than I am will be making those decisions. I do think it's pretty universal that Brewer fans want Sheets to stay healthy and pitch well, but the truth is simply that he hasn't pitched 200 innings since 2004. We're getting to the point where I don't think it's fair to keep pointing back to his career breakout year as "what he could do if healthy", we're 3 years removed from that now. I think it's fair to say he may never attain that level of performance again. It's obvious he's not taking great care of himself, he's gotten bigger each year, for some people that's not a big deal, for others it is. Is it the weight or something else? I'm not sure any of us know for sure, but after 3 years of the same weird issues, when are people finally going to concede that Sheets may not be the best investment for the Brewers? Endder made a good point about his secondary numbers regressing some last year, which may be anomoly, or may be indicator of a decline. At any rate, I'm glad DM has one more year to evaluate the Sheets situation.

[TooLiveBrew]

In a world where it seems there's always someone who can find something "insulting" is it really necessary to get insulted by someone's opinion about a player?

It isn't his opinion of Sheets - it's when you're told that the reason you like a player is only because of some imagined status, as opposed to having valid reasons. I find that insulting - I'm not off crying in my coffee, but it's obnoxious. Sorry that doesn't suit your rationale.

Endder made a good point about his secondary numbers regressing some last year, which may be anomoly, or may be indicator of a decline. At any rate, I'm glad DM has one more year to evaluate the Sheets situation.

 

I agree 100%.

[Invader3K]

TooLiveBrew, there's no reason to be insulted. I wasn't attacking you or anyone else on this board. I want Sheets to do well too, and live up to all his "potential." I just think the logic frequently used on this board with most other players doesn't get applied to Sheets very often.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok, perhaps 'insulted/ing' was too strong. I just think it's off-base to say that people back Sheets because he's somehow - arbitrarily - 'their/our guy.' While I agree that I'm a big Sheets backer, it's not some arbitrary notion where I just think he roolz. I think he's our most effective SP, even if he's had his IP limited in recent history - based upon stats, not a man-crush.

 

I really think the Brewers may well be better served by not signing him to the kind of money he's likely to get (after all, look at what Carl Pavano & A.J. Burnett got as FAs a few years ago), but if the money doesn't stand in the way - short term or long term concerning the young core - then nothing should imo. If he can be re-signed for around $15 mil. AAV, I think it'd be foolish to let him go. That is, unless there's fire to the smoke of some of his declined peripherals from 2007. As TC07 said, it's great that there's another season in which to analyze Ben.

[Gopher74]

There is absolutely no way Ben Sheets signs another Brewer contract. Those of you that think so are in denial.

Perhaps that crystal ball could shed some light on how the Brewers will do next season? Maybe you could save me the trouble of having to watch the Packers play next weekend?

I'm sorry, it just annoys me when people make these absolute comments about an issue that's simply not even near being decided. He's got a home in Milwaukee, he's a part owner in the Admirals, and he has said he loves playing here.

 

The Brewers are setting attendance records, they've got an owner willing to spend, and they said time and time again last year that they'd be willing to go out and spend that 12-15 million dollars to find an ace. Now they have one, they've got a gazillion dollars coming off the books next year, along with 25 million over 2 years in Suppan that'll likely be gone, and there's not a single scenario in which Ben Sheets could every sign another contract?

Hmm...

 

I'd venture a guess right now, a completely ignorant guess since I've got absolutely no idea as to Melvin or Mark A's line of thinking at this point in time, but I'd say the chances he signs here next year are about 25 pct.

 

Sheets has done nothing to get an extension from the Brewers, he has this year to prove himself or be moved for some useful parts for the future.

First of all, this is almost funny. How can you possibly say that he has done nothing to get an extension, and then go on to say that you love him when he's healthy? If you can acknowledge that he's a great pitcher when he's healthy, then you can't possible make the claim that he's done nothing to get an extension. That in and of itself is "something".

 

Second, when exactly is he going to "be moved"? He's a Free Agent after this season, and you say that he needs to prove this season that....well, I guess you just said "prove himself" which is ambiguous at best, but anyway, if he doesn't "prove himself" this year, then how exactly are we going to move him for "useful parts" in the future? He'd be a Free Agent?

 

 

Man, you guys act like Sheets likes getting hurt. It's silly. He's a great pitcher who's never had a elbow or shoulder injury. There is no reason to suggest he will be an injury plagued pitched down the road, and without question, the most annoying thing I hear is how he's like Wood or Prior. Absolutely ridiculous. He's nothing like either in that his arm/shoulder is still very healthy, and both of them have had serious surgeries to those parts. Simple as that.

 

 

If the Brewers don't re-sign Ben Sheets, it's going to be because they can't afford him, NOT because they don't want him. I can assure you the Milwaukee Brewers would gladly hand out a 5 year 50 million dollar contract to Ben Sheets as it stands today, Jan the 13th. There is very little question about that. The thing is, even with his history, Sheets could likely get 15 million a year as of today from any number of teams. The question is will Ben Sheets ignore the union and take a home town discount, or will he test the market, a market we're likely to not be able to match. My guess would be the latter, but who knows.

[logan82]

I had somebody tell me Sheets looked pretty good this year. I told him Sheets was having an off year. This was a few months after an arguement because Sheets didn't "win games." He didn't look like he was using his curve as much.

[Gopher74]

It's obvious he's not taking great care of himself, he's gotten bigger each year, for some people that's not a big deal, for others it is. Is it the weight or something else?

 

There just isn't a shred of a truth to this whatsoever. When he came back in 2006, he was the thinnest he's EVER been in a Brewers uniform. So much so that coming into 2007, he and the team wanted him to gain a little bit of weight because they/he felt that it'd was beneficial for a power pitcher, and himself in particular to be a little bit bigger than he was, so the suggestion that he's gained weight for the last 3 years straight simply isn't true.

 

In a world where it seems there's always someone who can find something "insulting" is it really necessary to get insulted by someone's opinion about a player?

 

I don't believe anyone got "insulted" regarding anyone's opinion on any player.

 

What was found "insulting", and this is something I agree with, is that we're not smart enough, or objective enough, whatever you want to say, to evaluate the situation because we come to a different conclusion than anyone else. It's also insulting when people suggest we're "homers", or that we're "in denial" because we don't agree that there is "absolutely no chance that he signs another contract for the Brewers".

 

 

 

In any event, I think that Ben Sheets does need to stay healthy, however I don't think that our success is "as dependent" upon it this year, at least not in the regular season. Certainly we're not likely to win without him in the playoffs, but we're better equipped to handle the loss of Sheets for a few starts this season with Gallardo able to be an ace in his stead, and Parra a talented prospects ready to fill his spot in the rotation.

[Tbadder]

You know, we've seen a few of these 10 mill a year pitchers signed (Silva, Suppan, etc.) but we've yet to see one traded. What makes everyone so sure there a trade market for these pitchers (real question, non-sarcasm)?

 

 

 

Especially at Suppan's age, I can't see many team seriously interested in him. Could the Brewers be in the position of trading Suppan and having to eat part of his contract (who woulda thunk it).

[Gopher74]

You know, we've seen a few of these 10 mill a year pitchers signed (Silva, Suppan, etc.) but we've yet to see one traded. What makes everyone so sure there a trade market for these pitchers (real question, non-sarcasm)?

 

 

 

Especially at Suppan's age, I can't see many team seriously interested in him. Could the Brewers be in the position of trading Suppan and having to eat part of his contract (who woulda thunk it).

I'm not sure what you mean you've "yet to see one traded". Plenty of big money pitchers have been traded. Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson(3X), Mike Hampton, Garland, Chan Ho Park, Freddy Garcia. I don't know how many others have been traded off the top of my head, but plenty have been.

 

And I'm sure you'll say that those were traded a while ago, and I think the reason for that is that you don't sign a pitcher normally and trade him right away. However, the Brewers would do it not because Suppan's not any good, but simply because he's going to cost too much relative to his value to the Brewers.

 

And I think there are plenty of teams that would assume 2 years of Jeff Suppan at 25 million dollars. For 200 innings of 4.50 ERA every year, teams like the Mets, Yankees, Braves, Phillies, Dodgers, White Sox, even the Reds would gladly take him. It'd only be a 2 year commitment. Even the Mariners or the Texas Rangers are possible candidates.

 

I honestly don't see it as a major issue. MAYBE if he has a season such as 10-14 4.75 ERA 1.50 Whip again, we MIGHT have to assume some of his contract and not get much back, but even then, I'd think we're talking 5 million total, and just not a good prospect. That'd seem to be the worst case scenario at this point.

 

Now on the other hand if you could get 220 IP of 4.15 ERA and 15 wins, you're not only going to be able to deal him, you'd likely get a very good prospect in return.

 

The only problem there is if we trade Suppan and then sign Sheets, there are going to be "those fans" who constantly complain every time Suppan wins a game and Sheets loses one.