Brewers sign Mike Cameron (1yr/$6.22 mil + 2009 Team Option)

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Coming late to the discussion again as always...*sigh*, so I'll try to keep it brief.

 

Plusses:

 

- Big upgrade over Menchkins. Tough not to be. And he only takes up 1 roster spot, for about $5 million less.

- Can *godforbid* play against both LHPs and RHPs without a dramatic dropoff. Once he's activated, we won't be subject to a different lineup depending on who's starting against us that day - I like that.

- 1-year commitment, financially. Like the Gagne deal, if this old coot doesn't pan out, we're not on the hook to him for years. Ad if he DOES pan out, but Ned still mismanages us out of a playoff berth, this time conveniently by late July, at least we can flip him for more nuggets.

- Renowned for great defense. On a team where we could probably expect the 2009 team to have Weeks catching and Hart also moved out of position, to shortstop, http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif this strikes me as a much-needed, and an ultra-rare, defense-first move by Doug).

- Shifts around Hall back to 3B, and Braun harmlessly to LF. While I still held out hope that Brauny should have been given a chance to get settled at 3B, Hall's value was as a slugging infielder, and he should have never been moved to CF.

 

Minuses:

 

- The drug thing. With Gagne, Turnbow and Mota, this makes 4. I can't embrace these cheaters, as lovable ol' Brewers. It's close to a situation I faced when the Raiders picked up Bill Romanowski. I still hate him, and I privately rooted for a backup to step up and move his carcass to the bench, but when he intercepted a pass, I couldn't be sad. I'm still a Brewer fan, and I want the guys in those ghastly uniforms to win ballgames, of course. But I just wish their asses weren't pockmarked with all those needle holes.

- He Old. He very old. Mike Cameroon so old, that now, without the benefit of drugs and a 35-year-old body, he could very possibly start that inevitable career decline this year.

- Cameroon strikes out too much. I'll just add him to the list of lineup regulars we have now, who don't at least make productive outs.

- Bad Batting Average. It's like going to an Oprah show with a Hillary button, but I'll say it here: I'd still rather have a .290 hitter with a .330 OBP, than a .250 hitter, with a .340 OBP, which Cameroon is. *ducks*

- He's Yet Another Righty Hitter. This reminds me of the 2003 bullpen, when Doug put together a bullpen, not only without a LOOGY specialist, but without a lefty, period. 7 righty hitters, plus Prince, a run producer who won't be allowed to drive in runs. Get those vocal chords and rubber chickens out this year, Brewer fans, because Prince will be walked a LOT. Apparently, Doug doesn't bother with such matters as L/R matchups or putting his players in their natural fielding positions. This can and has bitten him on the tookis in the past.

- This move pulls the plug on Braun's chance to redeem himself, defensively at 3B, at age of 24. OK, he was downright bad at 3rd in '07. No argument there. But so was Weeks, defensively, when HE was starting out, and after getting the chance to right the ship, he improved. Hardy was a disaster with the twig in his hands, as a rookie. But they let him fix it, by staying with it until he improved. Why not the same chance for Ryan? I know, I know, publicly, Doug says "the time to hesitate is through, no time to wallow in the mire, no more on-the-job training in 2008." Fine. But Braun's a great athlete, and could have gotten to be a decent 3B for all we know. But now we can't find out.

- We still have all that starting pitching, and only 5 rotation slots. Say what you will, but Doug failed to use this surplus. He could have turned a situation where we have some disappointed SPs like Goosio and Bush, and packaged them, along with a nugget or 2, to get a lefty outfielder who can get on base. They DO exist, and I still feel one could have been acquired.

- Acquired Because he Kills Brewer Pitching? At The Keg, his career OPS is 1.158, so Doug has watched him torch our usually-bad pitchers for the better part of a decade, whenever we faced him. This was the same reason we acquired Henry Blanco, I'm afraid. I hope this didn't enter the equation.

- 25-Game Vacation. Unlike Nilly, Eldred, Jaha and Higuera, Cameroon's inactive time won't coincide with an injury. But taking away his syringes could harm his production. And until April 25th or so, Gabe Dillon, Junior is NOT an attractive alternative.

 

Overall, while my rhetoric above may point otherwise, it's a positive move. From a 0 (the Burnitz deal) to a 10 (Podsednik for Lee), I give it a 6. I hated that Menchkins platoon, and Cameroon won't handcuff DM for years, as Hammonds did, here. But he's old, and now unjuiced, so I'm a tad apprehensive.

 

Still wished we could have added a better nugget or something for Action Hank Blalock, who's a solid 3B defensively, is 9 years younger, costs $2.5 million less, and bats lefty....

 

Oh well.

[TooLiveBrew]

Again, Cameron was suspended for greenies, not HGH/'roids.

Say what you will, but Doug failed to use this surplus.

 

The offseason isn't over. As others smarter than me have mentioned, once the arbitration process is completed, then you'll see what we can get for one or two of Cappy/Bush/Vargas. Say what you will, but there's still a full month before ST starts.

[kramnoj]

GenoSeligPrieb, are you not aware that Cameron wasn't caught for steroids, or does it just not fit with your attempt at humor? He tested for banned stimulants. It sounds like Lofton would have fit better with what you want, but slugging matters too, and Cameron is more likely to hit for power than Lofton.

[mothershipconnection]

It's like going to an Oprah show with a Hillary button, but I'll say it here: I'd still rather have a .290 hitter with a .330 OBP, than a .250 hitter, with a .340 OBP, which Cameroon is. *ducks*

 

 

 

Me too, if the first player makes up for it in SLG. You wouldn't want the first hitter if he's a slap hitter while the second hits for good power, though.

[PKBadger]

Come on guys, greenie suspensions just aren't as sexy! Wouldn't want little things like "research" or "facts" to get in the way of a well-crafted joke!

[crewcrazy]

One thing I like about Cameron is that he is also a certified, card-carrying, Cub Killer. Look at some of his splits against Cubs pitching:

 

vs. Rich Hill - 5-10, 4 HR, 7 RBI

vs. Ted Lilly - 7-23, 1 HR, 1 2B, 4 RBI

vs. Carlos Zambrano - 0-5

vs. Jason Marquis - 2-11, 1 2B

vs. Ryan Dempster - 3-8, 3 BB

 

Totals vs. expected Chicago rotation: 17-57 (.298) with 5 HR, 2 2B, 11 RBI

 

Other Chicago pitchers:

vs. Sean Marshall - 1-3, 3 BB

vs. Sean Gallagher - 0-0, 1 BB

vs. Kerry Wood - 1-3, 1 BB

vs. Bob Howry - 1-6, HR

 

No wonder Cubs fans think this is a good deal for the Brewers (or a really bad deal for the Cubs). http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Small sample sizes, I know, but it's still fun to look at. Especially those splits against Rich Hill. And we thought that the Brewers beat him around last year...

[clancyphile]

One thing I like about Cameron is that he is also a certified, card-carrying, Cub Killer. Look at some of his splits against Cubs pitching:

 

vs. Rich Hill - 5-10, 4 HR, 7 RBI

vs. Ted Lilly - 7-23, 1 HR, 1 2B, 4 RBI

vs. Carlos Zambrano - 0-5

vs. Jason Marquis - 2-11, 1 2B

vs. Ryan Dempster - 3-8, 3 BB

 

Totals vs. expected Chicago rotation: 17-57 (.298) with 5 HR, 2 2B, 11 RBI

 

Other Chicago pitchers:

vs. Sean Marshall - 1-3, 3 BB

vs. Sean Gallagher - 0-0, 1 BB

vs. Kerry Wood - 1-3, 1 BB

vs. Bob Howry - 1-6, HR

 

No wonder Cubs fans think this is a good deal for the Brewers (or a really bad deal for the Cubs). http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Small sample sizes, I know, but it's still fun to look at. Especially those splits against Rich Hill. And we thought that the Brewers beat him around last year...

That is a good sign. His past success at Miller Park also is a good sign, if you ask me. I think he'll do fine for the Crew. I just wish they had just moved Hall to left, though. That round-robin stuff just a bit much, I think.

 

[Patrick425]

Didn't get a chance to check back to this thread until now. Tried to review all the posts since then as best as possible. Having seen the amount that Cameron signed for made this move a little more palatable to me, but I'm still not nearly as thrilled about it as others on this board. A) I thought the Brewers were searching for a lefty? B) Bill Hall your an infielder. Bill Hall, your an outfielder, No wait, Bill Hall, your an infielder again. What? You're having trouble focusing on your hitting Billy? Gee, Why? C) Tested positive for stimulants twice. Twice!! D) Yes, Petco park is not a hitters park. However, I think people are having somewhat delusions of grandeur when it comes to the projections they are making for Cameron in Miller Park. He's 35. So, unless he's drinking from the same "magical fountain" that guys like Bonds and Clemens have "discovered", production usually does not increase (or even stay the same) at that age.

I hope I have the strong taste of Crow in my mouth come September, but I'm not getting the same warm, fuzzy feeling about this acquisition that most others seem to have.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, Petco park is not a hitters park. However, I think people are having somewhat delusions of grandeur when it comes to the projections they are making for Cameron in Miller Park.

 

PetCo is not just 'not a hitter's park,' though - it's the worst park for hitters in the NL, and iirc all of MLB.

 

And although you drop a brilliant usage of what is perhaps C3PO's greatest line, http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif all us 'wackos' are doing is looking at his recent road production, then applying a relative hitter's park (MP) to any guesstimate. Really a .350 OBP/.450 SLG is not out of line at all for Cameron. Since his ISO has remained relatively strong, I see no reason to expect that his age 35 season would be that much different from his age 34.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

For the record, yes, I know it was greenies. But drugs are drugs. And since so few others (hell, I have a tough time naming others, off-hand) have been busted and suspended so harshly for greenies, he must have been a real abuser, and/or he was dumb enough to still have greenies cycling through his system when he got caught.

 

 

 

As Bud has admitted, teams were given advance notice when the drug cops were coming. And Cameroon STILL got caught. Bad. Bad and dumb.

[TooLiveBrew]

Here's the updated ZiPS projection on Cameron for those interested (I also threw this in the Dayn Perry Cubs-Brewers thread)

Cameron, M.	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	SB/A	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
Projection	481	122	29	5	18	18/?	59	123	.254	.341	.447	.788
Optimistic	508	138	39	7	23	21/?	73	123	.272	.371	.512	.883
Pessimistic	381	84	23	2	11	9/?	40	111	.220	.299	.378	.677

[Ennder]

B) Bill Hall your an infielder. Bill Hall, your an outfielder, No wait, Bill Hall, your an infielder again. What? You're having trouble focusing on your hitting Billy? Gee, Why

 

 

 

Pujols came into the league at 3B, moved to the OF and then moved to 1B and he seemed fine. I just don't think moving back to 3B is going to really bother him, in fact it might make him feel more comfortable to be back in the IF.

[brewerjamie15]

BREWERS ACQUIRE FREE AGENT OUTFIELDER MIKE CAMERON

 

Three-Time Gold Glove Award Winner Signed To One-Year Deal

 

 

 

MILWAUKEE - The Milwaukee Brewers today signed outfielder

Mike Cameron to a one-year contract with a club option for 2009. The

announcement was made by Executive Vice President and General Manager

Doug Melvin.

 

 

 

"Mike brings many skill sets to the ballpark each day," said

Melvin. "I have always admired the way he plays the game. Mike has a

rare combination of defense, power and baserunning along with the

ability to work the count. He is also a leader in the clubhouse. It is

not a coincidence that he has been on a number of winning teams

throughout his career."

 

 

 

Cameron, 35, owns a career batting average of .251 with 216

home runs, 786 RBI and 272 stolen bases over 13 Major League seasons.

Since 1999, he has averaged 21 home runs and 25 stolen bases per season.

He is one of only four players to average more than 20 home runs and 20

stolen bases over the last nine seasons, joining All-Stars Bobby Abreu,

Carlos Beltran and Alfonso Soriano. Cameron has five "20/20" seasons

since 1999. Only Abreu (7) and Beltran (6) have recorded more during

this period.

 

 

 

The three-time Gold Glove Award winner (2001, '03, '06) and

2001 American League All-Star has been a major part of three playoff

teams during his career along with two teams that fought to a one-game

Wild Card playoff. His teams have averaged 91 wins over the last nine

seasons.

[chuckiehacks]

I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere, but in Rob Neyer's Insider blog today, he links to this article (which does not require subscription) discussing the defensive improvement resulting from this trade.

[crewcrazy]

Holy crap, TooLive, that "Pessimistic" projection is veeeery pessimistic. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif Those are Estrada-esque.

[TheBrewer]

I wish their Live Press Confrence on brewers.com actually worked...

[TooLiveBrew]

Heh - Estrada was the first name that popped into my head, too. Must be that .299 OBP!

 

The following is from the article chuckiehacks linked (thanks, great read!):

 

"Ok, let's add it all up: +20 in CF, +30 at 3B, and -10 in LF results in +40 runs overall. That's a four win improvement just on defense. Put another way, Milwaukee pitchers can expect to see their ERAs drop by over a quarter of a run. Isn't it amazing what you can achieve by signing good fielders and moving others to positions that fit their skills?

Cameron's not just as asset on defense, either. He can draw walks and hit for some power. Sure, his offensive numbers were down in San Diego, but that park is brutal on hitters, reducing run scoring by 20%. Cameron's .328 OBP and .421 SLG in 2007 translate to a .335 OBP and .443 SLG in a neutral park. 2006 was even better: .359 OBP and .486 SLG.

If the Brewers hadn't signed Cameron, they'd be batting Gabe Gross, a career .245/.343/.410 hitter. If Cameron repeats his 2007 numbers, he's similar to Gross offensively. If he hits like 2006, he's 15 runs better.

Including both offense and defense, the Brewers are between 4.0 and 5.5 wins better with Mike Cameron than without him. At $4 million per win, that's worth between $16 and $22 million on the free agent market, all for only $7 million. We can't give all that credit to Cameron (the Brewers technically could have moved Hall and Braun without signing Cameron), but acquiring a good center fielder forces the issue. It's a great signing and the Brewers are now back to competing with the Cubs for first place in the NL Central."

 

Also, here's something for GSP! This is from an article (Fan House blog) linked from the above blog, dated 10/31/07:

 

 

"Earlier today, MLB announced that Mike Cameron was suspended for the first 25 games of 2008 for testing positive to a banned stimulant, which Cameron claims was an ingredient in an over-the-counter supplement. Because he received the 25-game suspension instead of a warning, we know this isn't the first positive test he's had. In fact, according to the recently released book Andy Roddick Beat Me With a Frying Pan, Cameron has admitted to playing under the influence of another -- albeit decidedly less useful -- drug in the past. Here's a conversation he had with Todd Gallagher, the author of the book, appearing on page 101-102:

 

'It's not as common as greenies, but big leaguers have been known to step on the field liquored up. ... Almost every current major leaguer I spoke to knew of players who had stepped on the field under the influence. When asked what the signs were, the players typically responded the way Giant Ryan Klesko and Padre Jake Peavy did: 'I just knew.' Interestingly, another Padre, center fielder Mike Cameron, had a more intimate experience with game-day tipsiness:

 

"Sh-t, I've played drunk."

 

When?

 

"New York City."

 

What were the circumstances?

 

"I went four for four with two jacks and eight ribbies. I'm not saying that's the only day I played drunk, but that was the best one."

 

Did Cameron realize this was on the record? Because that's a shockingly candid answer. I did some digging -- Cameron has only had one game with eight RBI, so he must be referring to this game against the Yankees on August 19, 2001 back when he was still with the Mariners. It was an afternoon game that started at 1:07 pm, so I'll give Cameron the benefit of the doubt that he meant he was still drunk from the night before. As for his suggestion that there were other days, well, he's on his own there. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this isn't the type of thing he wants people to be talking about the winter that he's looking for work."

 

[TheBrewer]

now on the Baseball TV with Seth Everett I wana say, they have some WI kid caller and saying how he doesnt like the Cameron move... much less he sounds like hes having panic attacks.. nice way to represent WI fans lol jez

[djoctagone]

#25 . . . 25 games suspension to start the season . . . was that number given to him as a deterrent?

[homer]

"'It's not as common as greenies, but big leaguers have been known to step on the field liquored up."

 

 

 

 

 

I guarantee that's why Jenkins was pulled from this game:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN200407210.shtml

 

 

 

Claim was that he had the 'flu'. Odd coincidence - this was also his birthday.

[JJHardy7]

Did Cameron realize this was on the record? Because that's a shockingly candid answer. I did some digging -- Cameron has only had one game with eight RBI, so he must be referring to this game against the Yankees on August 19, 2001 back when he was still with the Mariners. It was an afternoon game that started at 1:07 pm, so I'll give Cameron the benefit of the doubt that he meant he was still drunk from the night before. As for his suggestion that there were other days, well, he's on his own there. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this isn't the type of thing he wants people to be talking about the winter that he's looking for work."

 

I really hope booze isn't part of this drug testing thing -- what's his next level of suspension? The whole season? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Has anyone read this book?

 

[trwi7]

now on the Baseball TV with Seth Everett I wana say, they have some WI kid caller and saying how he doesnt like the Cameron move... much less he sounds like hes having panic attacks.. nice way to represent WI fans lol jez

 

I heard that kid too. I had to turn it down for a while because he was just brutal to listen to.

[jaybird2001wi]

How weird is it to see this whole deal already on brewers.com. Personally they could have done a better job angling his hat via photoshop. When will the OFFICIAL headshots and stuff come out?

 

Does anyone think Cameron should wear No. 24 for the Brewers?

 

What I am most concerned about is the effects of this deal it has on the teammates. I read the article in Sunday's Journal-Sentinel and it seems like Braun really wanted to try to become an established third baseman and Bill Hall was more critical of the move, starting to feel comfortable as a centerfielder. But I guess if they are willing to do the switch for the good of the team, it is a good thing.

As much as people on here bashed Braun's defense, it kind of makes me feel bad because he is still a young guy and has a lot of years ahead of him to improve his defense at third base.

Not to hijack this thread, but I think Cameron will give us a lot more flash. I remember back in the 90's when we had no one that could exhibit kind of a flashy type of swagger. As long as he doesn't ground into inning-ending double plays and gets on base consistently along with steady defense, that is all I ask out of him.

[trwi7]

How weird is it to see this whole deal already on brewers.com. Personally they could have done a better job angling his hat via photoshop. When will the OFFICIAL headshots and stuff come out?

That's the way he wears his hat iirc.

[crewcrazy]

Yeah, Cameron has always worn a relatively flat-billed cap a little crooked. For those who remember Cameron's collision with Carlos Beltran, here's a photo from the NY Times:

 

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/08/12/sports/12mets.xlarge1.jpg