Brian Roberts not traded to Cubs: Latest - Dead, according to the O's

[TerraceReserved]

Damn. Hell. Sigh. Hard to swallow seeing your already-superior rival continue to get better than you, filling holes with top-tier players and making smart moves. As we keep falling further behind, seems more and more like 2008 is just going to be "the ol' college try" for winning the division. Depressing. Please let there be something big afoot for the Brewers....

 

Jeez, it seems half of bf.net is convinced that the Cubs have done so much to improve this offseason. They signed Fukudome. The just got Roberts. And......... that's it. They're filling up these holes becuase they needed them to be filled. The Brewers were already are set in 7 out of 8 spots, and have in house solutions, FA choices, and SP to trade. Fukudome won't even be a very large upgrade over their previous platoon, if he is an improvement at all.

Meanwhile, the Brewers have improved upon their main weak point in the bullpen, completely revamping it and getting 4 new guys. We've improved at our other weak spot at catcher. Now Doug has many choices to deal with his 3b/lf situation

 

It gets tiring hearing that the Cubs have improved so much and the Brewers haven't. That's just not true.

[aracko]

Sounds like the Roberts deal is still pretty far from a sure thing. Very Similar to the Rolen to the Brewers thing having been done and then not done.

[trwi7]

Several sources have reported that O's President Andy MacPhail is looking for pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher plus minor league shortstop Ronny Cedeno. Great sources have told me that the price for Roberts is much higher than that. Names that the Orioles are reportedly asking for include Rich Hill and several much more highly regarded players that could include Felix Pie, minor league standout outfielder Tyler Colvin, and others. Sources also tell me that GM Jim Hendry will not part with Hill in any deal and while he is willing to pay a high price, he i s not willing to bankrupt his system of elite prospects.

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[TooLiveBrew]

It gets tiring hearing that the Cubs have improved so much and the Brewers haven't. That's just not true.

 

No kidding. If you came on this board at any given time, you'd think the Cubs had traded for A-Rod, signed Bonds & Fukudome, traded for C.C. Sabathia, and Melvin & Co. just signed Josh Fogg to shore up the pitching situation for the Crew.

 

To be totally honest, the Cubs can't hang with just the organic improvements that this Brewers team will see in 2008. Luckily for us, our organization is run well enough that the major position players were here last year, and will be there in 2008 & beyond.

[brewtank34]

I really don't see this deal happening. As reported by other posters, the O's are looking for bigger pieces such as Rich Hill. My guess is this is going to be the year of the.........


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[colbyjack]

If it does happen though it is a great acquisition for the Cubs. Brian Roberts is a pretty dynamic player and one I would love to see the Brewers acquire even if he isn't a player of need.

 

 

 

Kenny Lofton is close to being the same player at a fraction of the cost minus the trade implications and at a position of need which is why I wouldn't suggest the Brewers to go out of their way to get Roberts, especially given what the O's are asking for, but still Roberts is one of the game's most underrated players IMO.

[dadofandrew]

He's just better than league average, and he's 30. His 3 year splits are a bit higher than his career norms, but he does not excite me. He's basically Rickie Weeks without Rickie's ceiling.

[Robideaux]

There is no way that Roberts is "just better than league average". His VORP was 12th in MLB in 2005 and 28th in 2007. That screams elite to me. He gets on base, he steals bases, he plays a mean 2B. What more do you want out of a leadoff hitter?--if you take fielding into account, he's better than Weeks, by far.

 

I've been hoping the Brewers make a move like this and move Weeks to CF, Hall to 3B, Braun to LF. The sky is not falling, but if this goes down as reported it is a steal for the Cubs and makes a team in serious need of a high OBP guy at the top of the lineup much scarier.

[DrWood]

I've been hoping the Brewers make a move like this and move Weeks to CF, Hall to 3B, Braun to LF. The sky is not falling, but if this goes down as reported it is a steal for the Cubs and makes a team in serious need of a high OBP guy at the top of the lineup much scarier.

 

yeah, that would work. I like roberts a lot if the price was reasonable. your option has a lot of guys moving, though (weeks, hall, braun).

[Gopher74]

It gets tiring hearing that the Cubs have improved so much and the Brewers haven't. That's just not true.

 

No kidding. If you came on this board at any given time, you'd think the Cubs had traded for A-Rod, signed Bonds & Fukudome, traded for C.C. Sabathia, and Melvin & Co. just signed Josh Fogg to shore up the pitching situation for the Crew.

 

To be totally honest, the Cubs can't hang with just the organic improvements that this Brewers team will see in 2008. Luckily for us, our organization is run well enough that the major position players were here last year, and will be there in 2008 & beyond.

I know, I just don't get it. I don't understand this Cub enthusiasms around here. You'd have thought that they ran away with the division last year. They didn't. We lost the division. We gave it to them.

 

A good reference point would be the Indians and the Tigers last year. The Tigers did a helluva lot more to improve last year than the Cubs have done this off-season, the Tigers finished much further ahead of the Indians last year, and yet the Indians won the division on the strength of their young ace*cough*cough* a revamped BP that didn't have a clear closer, but several good arms *cough*cough and on the expected growth of their youth.

 

So to recap the gap was bigger last year between the Tigers and Indians, the Tigers did more to improve, and the Indians on the backs of their youth and ace tandem won the division.

 

I think some people are so used to failure that they have to temper their excitement now...or something. I just don't see the Cubs as being that good of a team. Yea, they're offense may be closer this year, but their pitching won't be even close to as good as it was last year.

[ILuvDaBush]

So who bats leadoff? You would imagine Roberts but Soriano doesn't hit anywhere but leadoff... And let me ask this question. What if Rich Hill falls apart next year like Ben Hendrickson in Minnesota? That rotation is going to be their Achilles. A minimal upgrade that could easily doom their upcoming season. And also, I doubt they have the chips for Burnett. Hill wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Shawn Marcum and Dustin McGowan. Halladay is their franchise pitcher. And in this market, Burnett will fetch more than a fourth starter (Hill). I could see Cincicnatti (Cueto/Bailey) getting Burnett, but ChiScrub wouldn't have the young pitching necessary.

[Invader3K]

I just don't get it. I don't understand this Cub enthusiasms around here. You'd have thought that they ran away with the division last year. They didn't. We lost the division. We gave it to them.

True, the Cubs basically walked backwards into the division title. Even though they got swept in the playoffs, though, the bottom line is that the Cubs were playing October baseball, while we Brewers fans were once again just talking about how nice it would be to see the Brewers there, for the 25th year in a row.

 

I guess I am not so worried about the Cubs this coming season...I think they will be a challenge, but beatable for the Brewers. I am more worried what happens when they get sold, and someone really competent happens to take over. They are already showing they aren't the Cubs of Dusty Baker, with Lou Pinella managing, which is worrisome.

 

[rotoherb]

I would actually like to see the Cubs do this deal. They already weakened their bullpen by moving Dempster to the rotation and probably putting Marmol in the closer spot, thus reducing his Marmol's leverage and value. The Cubs have absolutely nothing in their minor league system that resembles a decent starting pitcher who can help them this season, especially if they trade Gallagher. Seeing them with Marquis and Dempster in their rotation and knowing that they have nothing behind those two would bring a smile to my face. I can easily see their rotation turning into the 2006 version all over again.

[TooLiveBrew]

They already weakened their bullpen by moving Dempster to the rotation and probably putting Marmol in the closer spot, thus reducing his Marmol's leverage and value.

 

They have Bob Howry at the closer spot for the time being, unfortunately. I hope they find some reason/way to move Marmol to CP, though. That'd be great for us.

[Ennder]

I think people are overrating Marmol a bit. Yeah his ERA was great in the 2nd half but he had 5.1 BB/9 and basically looked like Turnbow. He is an extreme flyball pitcher who happened to only give up 4% of his flyballs as HR's in the 2nd half and who had a 84% strand rate. xERA says his ERA should have been a good bit higher last year and predicts a 3.50ish ERA this year.

 

 

 

His season just reminds me a lot of Turnbow in 2005.

[homer]

Except he's two years younger now than Turnbow was in 2005. I think he's got room to improve.

[Ennder]

Except he's two years younger now than Turnbow was in 2005. I think he's got room to improve.

 

Well of course he has room to improve at his age, but it shouldn't be assumed that last year is his talent level. His numbers do not jive with his ERA and if the league gets patient with him and he keeps throwing a lot of balls he's ERA is going to jump just like Turnbows did. I get the feeling that people are thinking he is the next Broxton and I just don't think he's gonna be that type of guy.

[crewcrazy]

Marmol has electric stuff and seems to have a rubber arm, so I think a lot of his reputation is based on that. I agree that he probably won't be as good as he was last year, but if they can get a full year of a healthy Kerry Wood out of the bullpen, I think that would make up for any drop in production Marmol might have. Assuming Kerry Wood is going to be healthy is like assuming Benny will, though, so it's no guarantee. I don't think the Cubs are done yet, either...I could easily see them getting a RP in a trade, or they could use someone like Gallagher or Marshall out of the pen if Piniella doesn't put them in the rotation instead (and if they don't get traded).

 

 

 

Getting Jon Lieber would be a solid move for the Cubs, especially since it would probably bump Marquis or Dempster back into the bullpen. I'm just hoping that it takes the Cubs a month into the regular season to realize why they made Dempster a reliever in the first place. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DrWood]

I hope the cubs figure out a way to keep marshall since the brewers are now stacked to do damage to lefties.

[Oldcity]

Sounds like this deal may be dead. Apparently Baltimore was asking for more than what was rumored.

[crewcrazy]

Basically came down to the Orioles demanding Pie and the Cubs balking. Looks like the Orioles are now turning to the Indians, who have been rumored to be offering their #1 pitching prospect, Adam Miller.

[Team Canada]

Well that was a lot of wailing and despair for nothing.

[valpocrewsader]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PORT/MAX_1911~Happiness-Posters.jpg

 

 

 

May the bad guys continue to be unsuccessful in adding big pieces like this.... Whew. Dodged a bullet.

[Fatter than Joey]

I just don't get it. I don't understand this Cub enthusiasms around here. You'd have thought that they ran away with the division last year. They didn't. We lost the division. We gave it to them.

 

Well, this statement is a matter of perspective. I think if our wins had been more evenly distributed people wouldn't say that, i.e., if we hadn't had the infamous 24-10 start, our season wouldn't have been viewed as a collapse. Likewise, if the Cubs hadn't had such poor April, the Brewers "collapse" wouldn't have been so monumental (from a GB viewpoint). The Cubs got off to a slow start in April, they got rid of some clubhouse problem players, Soriano/Lee/AmRam got healthy and they started winning ballgames. At the end of the day, once the Cubs and Brewers got close in the standings, the Cubs won games that the Brewers were losing. After the AS break the Cubs and Brewers played only 3 times (Cubs win 2) -- so it is not as if we blew a 4 game series (like the 82 Brewers almost did to Balt) to the Cubs. After the AS break, the Brewers won 34 games, the Cubs 41. The Cubs (outside the 2 wins at Milw.) could have easily lost the same sort of games that the Brewers were losing, but to their credit they won them. Now does anyone here think the Cubs are a 100 win juggernaut? No. Do most people here think that perhaps the Brewers left a couple games on the table in 2007? Probably Yes. So, I certainly understand the concept behind "the Cubs backed into it argument".

 

I think some people are so used to failure that they have to temper their excitement now...or something. I just don't see the Cubs as being that good of a team.

 

Up until this off-season. A lot of BF.net's pre-season analysis in prior years of the Cubs was "They're the Cubs, they will screw it up". I think the Cubs winning the division got them on our radar. Also, after the AS break, the Cubs won at a .547 clip, and the Brewers won at .459 clip, so I think the idea that the Brewers need to "break service" (to steal a tennis term) is a very reasonable one as well. In short, I don't think that this has anything to do with people here "used to failure", I think people here are simply recognizing that the Cubs are going to give us a run for our money.

 

I am glad Brian Roberts is not going to be a Cub. I would have viewed that as a very solid acquisition, along with the signing of Fukodome.

 

As for the Brewers. I view two moves as "solid"

 

1.) Getting Cameron in CF, and Braun off of 3b.

2.) Riske.

 

These I view as crapshoots.

 

1.) Kendall

2.) Cameron the batter

3.) That Gagne+Mota+Torres+Riske > Villy+Wise+Linebrink+Cordero.

 

So at the end of the day, I think most people here think that the Central will be hotly contested -- to be honest, I think the Reds could be a huge monkey wrench in 2008, if they get some help from their young arms.

[ILuvDaBush]

Well still have Villy and anything that the Marijuana Man gives us is just icing on the cake so really, it should be "Gagne/Riske/Torres is better than Cordero/Linebrink/Wise," which...I would tend to agree with. Wise to Torres is an upgrade. Linebrink didn't bring what he was supposed to and I hope/think Riske will. And Gagne and Cordero...well between the two of them, they have ONE Cy.