Brian Roberts not traded to Cubs: Latest - Dead, according to the O's

[Ennder]

Last I heard Fukudome didn't want to play CF and a big part of why he chose the Cubs was they wanted him as a RF, so I'm not so sure that is the plan. Probably more likely to see Soriano spend time in CF again.

[crewcrazy]

I'd be shocked if Matt Murton wasn't a part of this deal. My bet would be Cedeno, Murton, and one of Gallagher or Marshall. Not even Jim Hendry would give up both to acquire another second baseman.

 

As for who plays CF for them next year, I would bet on the Cubs letting Felix Pie sink or swim there this year. He's probably the best defensive CFer on that roster, and the Cubs don't really need his bat to be anything special yet with Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and maybe Fukudome producing above-average offense. They won't have the power top to bottom that the Brewers will, but they'll be strong enough to keep Pie in the lineup even if he continues to struggle (which I don't think is likely...he's still only like 23 and has gobs of potential, but on the other hand people were saying the same things about Corey Patterson when he started in Chicago).

[DrWood]

doesn't anyone else think this could be a great opportunity to get DeRosa to play 3b (I know, in-division trade and all)? He'd at least be a good guy to pencil in for a couple of years and could move into a utility role after that. If they traded Marshall, they could use a back-end-of-the-rotation type of guy.

[Klements Bratwurst]

The Chicago Tribune weighs in here.

 

They say Gallagher, Marshall and Cedeno as first reported, although nothing official.

 

I like the forum at the bottom of the article. Most Cubs fans responded that the Cubs are stupid for having Marquis and Dempster as their #4 and #5 starters. It looks like the Cubs are trying to catch the Brewers offensively, but they are giving up a bit of their asset, in young pitching.

 

If Dougie could just make that move to get Ryan Braun off of third base, I think we are set to combat this move. Our pitching staff would get better.

[Invader3K]

I don't know. This is just irksome to me. Assuming this is accurate...the bottom line is that the Cubs have made some big acquisitions this off-season, while the Brewers biggest signing has been 1 year of a relief pitcher with some big question marks around him. I know there's still time before Opening Day, but I wish Mr. Melvin would do something to shore up the Brewers defense.

[TooLiveBrew]

the Cubs have made some big acquisitions this off-season

Fukudome counts as more than just one player? This deal isn't final yet, and even if it is, it thins out their SP depth to try & catch our O, as mentioned.

[crewcrazy]

While this trade would dilute the Cubs' starting rotation pretty significantly, there's been rumors that this move would just be a precursor to the Cubs going after A.J. Burnett in an attempt to restore some of that pitching depth. Toronto wants to unload Burnett badly -- he can opt out after '08 (which seems certain if he can stay healthy) and he's still owed a ton of cash with his injury history (so if he gets hurt again they're stuck with him) -- so the Cubs may be able to get him for 50 cents on the dollar. The Cubs getting Burnett would be scary if he could stay healthy, but if he gets hurt again (which seems likely, given his past), they'd be back to where they would be after a Roberts trade, plus they'd be without Matt Murton or whoever else they would have to trade to get Burnett.

[fondybrewfan]

I think we will be fine even if this goes through. Who the heck cares what the Cubs do? If our young lineup improves and our SP pitch like they can, we aren't going to have to worry about that Cubs. They are good no doubt about it but their depth is limited so one major injury could be devastating. Like people have said previously they will be counting on Marquis and Dempster as two of their starters with virtually no other alternatives. Also don't forget that Lilly probably will regress in 2007 simply because he the NL now has a better feel for him and he way outpitched his career numbers last year. Their #1-3 is pretty decent but our #4-5 blow theirs out of the water. And tis not like our #1-3 are bad

[Big Reed]

I like the acquisition.

 

 

 

I have to believe marquis will put up similar numbers to last year and that his numbers in St Louis were an abarition. before being traded to St Louis, marquis was supposed to be a great young promising pitcher. i think he finally realized his potential last year and will continue on that track.

 

 

 

Listening to cubs games on the radio, i have to believe the Cubs like what they saw of theroit last year and he'll start at short.

 

 

 

Don't forget the Woods factor. he could become the Cubs' closer this year. his health is about the same as Sheets. If Sheets is going to be healthy this year, one would have to say so will Woods. Who knows? Woods could end up starting. As far as replacing the young arms, the Cubs can always pick up some unwanted mediocre veteran pitcher to fill their 5th starter spot. And then sign a FA for next year if they needed another starting pitcher. They don't really need minor league pitching depth. if you can sign decent free agents every year, you really don't need a minor league farm system. the cubs can look to japan as their farm system. They can sign more japanese FA stars and not worry about having to give up compensation draft picks.

 

 

 

As for CF, listening to cubs radio announcers, i doubt very highly soriano will play any centerfield again in his career with the Cubs. Their success last year can be directly related to his move out of center. Pie could be the starter in center. Derosa played some outfield last year. he could be a stop gap filler. Another option would be for the Cubs to sign an old guy named Lofton. if the brewers are interested in lofton, I'm sure the Cubs have him on their radar scope as well. And looking back, brian roberts has also played outfield.

 

 

 

as for the Cubs' spending habits, i don't forsee them to cut back in the future, even after their future sale. We are going to see more of the same type of deals next year and the following years. There is no way the brewers will ever be able to compete financially with the Cubs. and if their GM actually spends their money wisely, the Cubs will become a very formidable foe just like the Red Sox and Yankees. it's going to be very hard for the brewers to beat out the Cubs.

[DrWood]

woods health is NOT the same as sheets, unless you happen to know that they both happen to have the sniffles right now, and that's what you're talking about.

[Big Reed]

it's all a matter of perspective. if you ask a Cubs fan, he'll tell you woods is healtheir than Sheets or just as healthy. if you ask a brewers' fan, he'll tell you Sheets will be 100% healthy, and woods will go on the Dl in April. Where does the truth lie? Somewhere inbetween.

 

 

 

I keep hearing where Dempster will be a starter. he could be replaced by Woods or Marmol in the closer role. But then again, I heard all last winter that Papelbon would change from closer to starter. It's highly likely that Dampster will remain the closer despite all the propaganda that the Chicago papers spit out. Wood could actually flourish as a closer, and he does have a closer incentive clause in his contract. I'm amzed at how many people cut down players like wood and then go out and draft him for their personal fantasy teams.

 

 

 

I heard the brewers were trying to acquire tejeda and rolen to play third base. it's all a matter of perspective. it's hard to believe everything you read.

[TooLiveBrew]

if you ask a Cubs fan, he'll tell you woods is healtheir than Sheets or just as healthy. if you ask a brewers' fan, he'll tell you Sheets will be 100% healthy, and woods will go on the Dl in April. Where does the truth lie? Somewhere inbetween.

 

Yes but he was talking about the fact that Wood's injuries have been arm/shoulder types, whereas Sheets's, nagging & frustrating as they've been, aren't arm or shoulder.

[endaround]

If you ask a Cubs fan they'll tell you they would have had 20 World Series victories if it wasn't for a goat.

[homer]

I think its a plus move for the Cubs. My only concerns if I'm a Cub fan are:

 

 

 

1) Our starting pitching is really thin

 

2) Our #1 starter has thrown 200+ innings five straight seasons

 

2) We are counting on a lot of guys on the wrong side of 30. I hope they all stay healthy.

 

 

 

I'll say what I said last year. There are a lot of 'ifs' with the Cubs but if most of the 'ifs' are answered the right way they will be really good.

[Weirdos19]

Roberts is Derosa with speed. I really don't get giving up what they did for a guy that admitted to steroid (or HGH) use during his only great season.

I know he said he only tried it once, but I think he hit 12 HR that April, and has about that many since.

 

I think the "I tried it once" excuse is going to get worn out by guys that get caught. No way do these guys get better than quit taking the stuff. I really don't believe Pettite either.

[JohnBriggs12]

Roberts is Derosa with speed. I really don't get giving up what they did for a guy that admitted to steroid (or HGH) use during his only great season.

I know he said he only tried it once, but I think he hit 12 HR that April, and has about that many since.

 

I think the "I tried it once" excuse is going to get worn out by guys that get caught. No way do these guys get better than quit taking the stuff. I really don't believe Pettite either.

 

Roberts had a .377 OBP, 50 steals and fielded .991 fielding percentage in 2007. Soriano had a .337 OBP. Roberts would bat leadoff instead of Soriano. That's a significant difference in OBP without sacrificing speed.

 

DeRosa's a fine player too, but with Roberts around, he makes their bench very formidable. He can play anywhere but CF and Catcher.

 

Be careful. Don't assume the Cubs will stop going after pitching.

[hauser42]

They can have Roberts. If they are giving up those two young pitchers all the more power to the O's for helping their rebuilding effort. Think the O's would want the arms since they are working on moving Bedard again.

Losing two arms like that will hurt their pitching, they dont have a lot to go around and Maquis is likely to not be as good, Dempster could be back in the pen by June to have a proven closer. Like someone posted Zambrano has a lot of wear on his arm and could be ready to explode, wait he does that now and again.

Brewers are still in fine shape the bullpen has been made deeper this year so if the SPs can not go 7 innings we have arms that can to the end of the game with a win. Pitching depth can be used to fill in for injuries or acquire a missing piece during the season.

Just because the Cubs make a moved doesn't mean DM has to counter or that the Cubs are going to win the NL Central.

[monty57]

That's what scares me John. This is not the Cubs of yesteryear that put out just enough talent to fill the seats so they turned a tidy profit. They've now become much more like the Yankees... if there's a problem, throw money at it until it goes away. Two years ago, they were a laughing stock, and for the first time in the team's existance, the fans didn't accept it. Last season, they spent something like $300MM to improve and they won the division. Now they're spending a lot more money to improve. They've got a guy in DeRosa that would start on over half the teams in the majors, but they see an opportunity to upgrade, and they have no problem paying DeRosa a lot of money to sit on the bench. Murton could be a solid RF, but they see a chance to get Fukudome, so they outspend everyone else to get him. Meanwhile our only solace is that our guys should get better because they're older, and maybe, just maybe someone on the Cubs will get hurt, or one of their 30- 32 year olds might see a serious drop off in production.

 

 

 

As a Brewers fan, I like the chances this year, and even for the next few years. However, I realize that the team they have is only as good as it is because they were bad enough in the past to get numerous high picks in the draft, and a disproportionately high number of those picks worked out extremely well. While the Brewers are hesitant to make a trade like this, as they need to hold on to their young players, the Cubs can do it because if they need to, they'll sign a top pitching FA next season, or they'll find a poor team that needs to trade their high priced arby players, much like the Marlins and Twins this offseason. In other words, Melvin & Co have to be nearly perfect, while the Cubs can buy their way out of mistakes. I just hope we do whatever it takes to win over the next 3-4 years. We could turn into the Blue Jays after that... No matter what we do, we can't field enough talent to keep up with a monster payroll within the division. Of course, the Cubs could always turn into the Orioles... dish out big money and never have anything to show for it. However, I hate to bank my chances on someone else's ineptitude.

[erbacaine04]

This deal while is a tad worry some is not anything special......

 

First- If Roberts goes into leadoff spot... Soriano will be a big time cry baby...because going off his stats at other places he sucks outside of the leadoff spot and thats where he wants to be..

 

Second- They Still have question marks at Short Stop and Center with very weak hitting players(Theriot and Pie) plus they have a question mark with Soto and Fudome.... where as we have 2 question marks Kendall and LF

 

Third- Derosa was their team MVP last year and they are replacing that bat with a faster version....

 

Last- Look at how Roberts OBP goes up and down every year....

2007-.377 OBP .290 BA .87 Difference

2006-.347 OBP .286 BA .61 Difference

2005-.387 OBP .314 BA .73 Difference

2004-.344 OBP .273 BA .71 Difference

2003-.337 OBP .270 BA .67 Difference

2002-.308 OBP .227 BA .81 Difference

2001-.284 OBP .253 BA .31 Difference

 

2005 was his HGH year...thats not to impressive...that speed will really help them though but I dont see a major move here...especially when you talk about killing the back end of their rotation which really carried them last year....

having Marquis and Dumpster as your 4th and 5th starters hurts them much more than Roberts helps them

[Big Reed]

I'm not sure where all the Marquis hate is coming from. he had a pretty good year last year and is the Cub's 4th starting pitcher, not their ace. I wouldn't mind if a brewers starter could put up those type of numbers. I doubt seriously he'll revert back to his St Louis form. I had hoped the brewers would have signed Marquis as a FA last year. I would not have minded to have marquis as the brewers' 4th starter.

 

 

 

it's not a given that dempster will start although the Cubs now say he will . things could change, and he'll go back to closing.

 

 

 

while nothing special, you have to admit at least the Cubs are doing something and acquiring a quality veteran who actually had a decent year last year. The people who love OBP should love his OBP of last year. rather than seeing how his OBP goes up and down each year, i looked at those same stats and saw his OBP climb 4 consecutive years, while his batting average has kind of settled in at the .290 level. A .344 OBP is nothing to dis a player for. that's a lot better than average. You state 2005 was his HGH year. has that been proven? perhaps 2003 and 2004 and 2006 were also his HGH years. I don't believe you can make a claim that his 2005 stats were directly related to taking HGH and his other years were not related. once a smoker, always a smoker. and we all know he only took HGH once and that Sammy Sosa is totally clean. I think it's safe to assume every ball player took something in 2005 and in 2004 and in 2003 and in 2006, except barry bonds, palmeiro, and clemens of course.

 

 

 

Roberts has 3 years left on his contract. The first year is $4 million. the next two are around 7 and 8 million. To most people, that would be considered a true bargain. Roberts is a big signing. While maybe not as big as kapler, he does significantly improve the Cubs if acquired.

 

 

 

The Cubs can always bring back tracshel for their 5th starting spot. he actually wasn't as bad as people are led to believe . he was doing great before being traded to the Cubs- kind of like gagne before he was traded to boston..

[erbacaine04]

Marquis was very bad last year....the only thing that helped him in the least was the First half of the season Chicago was Colder and windier than normal with MORE games that the wind was blowing in on.... so that helped him to a MUCH better first half Era

 

April-2.35 Era

May- 3.38 Era

June- 5.09 Era

July- 6.29 Era

Aug- 4.45 Era

Sept- 6.21 Era

 

THATS STELLAR.....seriously though last year when listening to the Score 670 the players and coaches were blaming the cold and wind blowing in the first 2 months as why they were not hitting the ball well....well guess what that is also why there pitching started off so well..... Their Pitchers will not have the same success in 2008 that they did in 2007..

 

and like I have said before the Dumpster is starting so now instead of the Brewers getting 1 inning to hit off of him...they get another 5 glorious innings of HR derby...

 

 

Zambrano was the only one that did not have a start like the others, he had Great June and July and a good Sept..... Hill had a 1.72Era April and then mid 4 Era rest of the year....

[TooLiveBrew]

Marquis wasn't awful last year -- he wasn't good either. Using ERA is not an accurate way to state whether or not a guy was good/bad. His FIP & xFIP were alright, given how many innings he logged. A lot of his success, though, came from the lowest HR/FB rate he's had in the last 4 seasons. I'd fully expect that rate to go back up near 15% or so (2007's was 11.2%), and then his other numbers probably won't look so pretty/solid. Then again, his LOB% will probably increase from last year's 67.7%, so that could even some stuff out.

[Gopher74]

While this trade would dilute the Cubs' starting rotation pretty significantly, there's been rumors that this move would just be a precursor to the Cubs going after A.J. Burnett in an attempt to restore some of that pitching depth. Toronto wants to unload Burnett badly -- he can opt out after '08 (which seems certain if he can stay healthy) and he's still owed a ton of cash with his injury history (so if he gets hurt again they're stuck with him) -- so the Cubs may be able to get him for 50 cents on the dollar. The Cubs getting Burnett would be scary if he could stay healthy, but if he gets hurt again (which seems likely, given his past), they'd be back to where they would be after a Roberts trade, plus they'd be without Matt Murton or whoever else they would have to trade to get Burnett.

Well, if the Cubs were to get Burnett, then I think they'd be the run away favorites for the division obviously, but I also think they'd be looking at giving up a heck of a lot more than Matt Murton and a filler. I think that's where Rich Hill would come in. Maybe Hill, Murton and Veal or something like that. Burnett's got a ton of value right now, and I don't think that the Blue Jays are desperate to unload him or anything like that.

 

[Gopher74]

Don't forget the Woods factor. he could become the Cubs' closer this year. his health is about the same as Sheets. If Sheets is going to be healthy this year, one would have to say so will Woods. Who knows? Woods could end up starting. As far as replacing the young arms, the Cubs can always pick up some unwanted mediocre veteran pitcher to fill their 5th starter spot. And then sign a FA for next year if they needed another starting pitcher. They don't really need minor league pitching depth. if you can sign decent free agents every year, you really don't need a minor league farm system. the cubs can look to japan as their farm system. They can sign more japanese FA stars and not worry about having to give up compensation draft picks.

I don't know how you can say that Wood and Sheets are anywhere near the same. Wood has had serious ARM issues, and hasn't pitched a fraction of what Sheets has the last three years. It always bothers me when people compare Sheets to Wood or Prior. It's kinda ridiculous. Just look at their injury history's. Sheets had a rare ear infection, a muscle tear in his back and then a torn tendon. Kerry Wood has had arm surgery after arm surgery, and two TJ's I believe.

 

And I think it's funny how we're already placing the Cubs in the class of the Sox or the Yankees. What have they done? They won a division that we gave them. If anything, they're still pretty clearly the antithesis of the Yankees and Sox. I also don't get the blind assumption that whoever buys them is going to outspend what they spend right now by so much. I guess we'll have to see, but it certainly doesn't seem like a given.

 

[valpocrewsader]

http://www.sph.umich.edu/news_events/findings/fall05/images/depression.jpg

Damn. Hell. Sigh. Hard to swallow seeing your already-superior rival continue to get better than you, filling holes with top-tier players and making smart moves. As we keep falling further behind, seems more and more like 2008 is just going to be "the ol' college try" for winning the division. Depressing. Please let there be something big afoot for the Brewers....