Gossage Gets In the Hall, No One Else

[fondybrewfan]

Goose Gossage got elected to the hall of fame with 86%, no one else made it,

 

Link to Come

 

EDIT: Someone please correct my spelling in the title, Thanks

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080108&content_id=2341502&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[crewcrazy]

An interesting note is that Mark McGwire got the exact same total of votes that he got last year -- 128. It looks like the voters have drawn their line in the sand there...so much for so many people saying "Well, I'd keep him out on the first ballot but then I'd vote for him."

 

Tim Raines and Bert Blyleven seriously need to get in, though. I wasn't expecting Raines this year since it was his first year, but he put up some incredible numbers. ESPNEWS' coverage of this is pretty interesting...you have the statheads (Law and a guy from BP) with a guy in the middle (Kurkjian) and a guy who uses "gut feelings" (Steve Phillips). The other three were calling Raines the Rickey Henderson of The NL, while Phillips was sitting there saying "Well, he just doesn't *feel* like a Hall of Famer to me".

[PlayerHader]

I don't understand the whole first ballot thing, and why guys like Gossage fail to get in for so long, and then suddenly are deemed worthy because time is running out. What did Goose do in 2007 that made him more hall of fame worthy? I didn't know he played.

 

I'm not saying he didn't deserve to get in because I'm not a HOF nut and don't know the numbers, but I just don't understand why guys suddenly are good enough after not having played for 20 years or whatever.

[slack00]

Player	Total Votes	Percentage
Rich Gossage	466	85.8%
Jim Rice	392	72.2%
Andre Dawson	358	65.9%
Bert Blyleven	336	61.9%
Lee Smith	235	43.3%
Jack Morris	233	42.9%
Tommy John	158	29.1%
Tim Raines	132	24.3%
Mark McGwire	128	23.6%
Alan Trammell	99	18.2%
Dave Concepcion	88	16.2%
Don Mattingly	86	15.8%
Dave Parker	82	15.1%
Dale Murphy	75	13.8%
Harold Baines	28	5.2%
Rod Beck	2	0.4%
Travis Fryman	2	0.4%
Robb Nen	2	0.4%
Shawon Dunston	1	0.2%
Chuck Finley	1	0.2%
David Justice	1	0.2%
Chuck Knoblauch	1	0.2%
Todd Stottlemyre	1	0.2%
Jose Rijo	0	0%
Brady Anderson	0	0%

 

With all due respect, the writers that voted for Beck, Fryman, Nen, Dunston, Finley, Justice, Knoblauch, and Stottlemyre should have their votes taken away. It's these ladies and gentlemen (as well as the ones who chose not to vote for Ripken last year) that are frustrating to me. They're more worried about pushing their own agendas than they are about selecting hall-worthy players.

[dadofandrew]

Gossage's career numbers has obviously improved since last season.

 

It's a broken system, and ridiculous stuff like a guy being "worthy" of being voted in one year yet not the year before proves it. The writers have made it so you have to be a friendly guy as well, or you have to be "more worthy". Kirby Puckett can get in being a borderline guy, Jim Rice can't...he was grumpy you see.

 

Knoblauch? Justice? Stottlemyre? It's beyond repair, and the patients are running the asylum...quite badly, I might add.

[Brian the Automator]

Gossage's career numbers has obviously improved since last season.

What has changed since last season is the respect for the players who played in Gossage's era. The whole concept that the 90's and 00's are tainted and that the 80's are less tainted surely gave some guys a boost.

[RobertR]

I've no problem with Gossage getting in. If you're going to honor relievers then he deserves to be in the Hall just as much as Fingers and Sutter. I'm surprised his vote total jumped so high, but nobody really cares about vote totals.

 

That's a step up for Blyleven, isn't it?

 

I suspect that Raines will begin to climb up some next year when the "he's not a first ballot" crowd wakes up. He's got a long ways to go though. That doesn't bode well for Kenny Lofton making the cut off since I think everyone would agree that Raines is superior to Lofton.

 

Shawon Dunston got a vote? The mind boggles.

 

I'm thinking Rice gets in next year too, which amazes me since he was arguably the worst outfielder of the late 70s Red Sox. He won't be the worst outfielder in the HoF, but I consider Raines, Trammell, McGwire (just based on numbers), and Dawson superior position player candidates and Parker and Murphy on par with Rice.

 

Robert

[Ennder]

I'm always shocked every time I remember Kirby Puckett is in the hall of fame considering some of the players who didn't make it.

[colbyjack]

Baseball doesn't like putting more than two guys in the hall in any given year, unless it's a unique case such as the year when Ryan, Brett and Yount all made it in. Last year you had two no-brainers in Ripken and Gwynn, and the writers may have been looking ahead to this year recognizing that it would be a thin class when Gossage was left off. Of course when McGwire retired, he was expected to be a no-brainer as part of last year's class.

 

I agree that the system is and has been messed up for a while, and I'm certianly not defending it, just pointing out why Gossage got in this year and not last year. I too don't agree with a player being a first year or second year inductee. You should either be in or not.

 

Rice was pretty close, and as the story from mlb.com from above points out, Rice could join Rickey Henderson a year from now.

[Tbadder]

I'm a bit saddened by this election. I really didn't think he deserved it. I love the idea of the Hall of Fame, but it's so littered with undeserving guys, I guess another one won't matter. But then again if it keeps getting diluted I don't know why anyone will eventually pay attention.

 

Guys like Gossage and Rice (he'll be in soon) make it because of the people surrounding them and their media market, while equally good or better players like Blyleven and Smith get screwed because they played too much in the heartland or with teams that couldn't buy championships or competitiveness.

 

Hey, I love the Red Sox, but as much as I do, everyone of them is tainted because of where they play and who they play with. Maybe there should just be a separate Hall for Yankee players--it's so dang frustration. What? Someday will have to swallow the bitter pills of Jeter and Mussina and Pettite--geez. Sorry.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Is someone voting for everyone (Beck, Fryman, Nen, Dunston, Finley, Justice, Knoblauch, and Stottlemyre) and then drawing the line at Jose Rijo and Brady Anderson. Low stanards by someone out there.

Because I gotta say if Beck is a HOF'er so is Rijo IMHO (j/k)

Someone needs to revamp the selection process because the voters are clueless.

[JohnBriggs12]

Writers can vote for up to 10 guys. Some guys fill up their ballots, some return completely empty ballots. I would have had 6 or 7 guys listed had I had a vote.

 

As for it making any sense, these are sports writers after all.

 

Gossage was a Hall of Famer. I went to a lot of Brewer/Yankee games during his era and there was never any doubt in my mind. He should have been in long ago.

[Big Reed]

congrats goose. I remember him when he was a white Sox and they couldn't decide whether he should be a reliever or a starter. it will be interesting to see what hat the goose chooses to wear when he goes into the hall. he may have gained fame as a yankee. but I'll treasure his chicago days just like Tommy John and Joe horlon, gary peters and wilbur wood.

[berniebrewer4life]

congrats goose. I remember him when he was a white Sox and they couldn't decide whether he should be a reliever or a starter. it will be interesting to see what hat the goose chooses to wear when he goes into the hall. he may have gained fame as a yankee. but I'll treasure his chicago days just like Tommy John and Joe horlon, gary peters and wilbur wood.

I thought the hall chooses now, or is that wrong?

[crewcrazy]

I'm pretty sure he'd go in as a Yankee, but it is the Hall's decision. It's been that way ever since Wade Boggs threatened to go in as a Devil Ray, IIRC.

[craigharmann]

I'm pretty sure he'd go in as a Yankee, but it is the Hall's decision. It's been that way ever since Wade Boggs threatened to go in as a Devil Ray, IIRC.

 

I think it was that when he signed with the D-Rays, there was a clause in his contract that he had to go in as a D-Ray. But that pretty much was the impetus for the change.

[DrWood]

Some folks are harsh around here. can't see why anyone would complain about gossage.

random responses:

Rice's only failing is having his skills erode--he was as dominant as any player at his peak. the worst boston OF in the late 70's? surely you don't value freddy lynn or a decrepit yastzremski higher. Some of those players in NY and Boston were pretty darn good. While I would not have voted for more than about 7 of the guys, the top 15 vote-getters had great careers and wouldn't tarnish the standards of the hall. can't see why anyone would have hatred for kirby puckett, either.

 

oh, and the "hall" doesn't want to have two or less guys enter each year--each voter is a free agent.

[RobertR]

Rice's only failing is having his skills erode--he was as dominant as any player at his peak. the worst boston OF in the late 70's? surely you don't value freddy lynn or a decrepit yastzremski higher.

Yeah, I'd put Lynn higher. He played centerfield and was a fine defender as well. Going by WARP from Baseball Prospectus, Lynn had two years, 1979 and 1976, better than Rice's best year, 1978, and won just as many MVPs.

 

I also think Dwight Evans was a better player than Rice, although he didn't really peak until the early 80s. The difference in career hitting statistics is pretty minimal and Evans was a very good defensive player.

 

FWIW, the stats and advanced metrics for them can be found at the following links.

 

Evans

Lynn

Rice

 

FWIW, that has to be as impressive a home grown outfield as I've seen in my lifetime.

 

Robert

[Big Reed]

I loved kirby puckett, but if you use the criteria that his great career was cut short by an injury, which was the same criteria used for Sandy Kofax, then i believe guys like Don Mattingly and Tony Oliva who both had outstanding careers cut short by injuries should both receive the same type of consideration kirby received. Oliva retired because he felt his legs were a liability playing the outfield. if there was a dh when Oliva played, he would have played an additional 5-10 years and would have easily had 3,000 hits much like rod Carew and Molitor did. Mattingly retired because of his back. Admittedly, a back is not an eye. but his back did force him to retire. It was not a matter of his batting skills eroding. Kirby definitely belongs in the hall, but there are a lot of other players who are just as deserving. I've always been a big Blyleven fan. Dawson and Rice are both deserving, but so is Cecil Cooper whose name is never mentioned.

 

The two guys who really deserve to be in the hall is Shoeless Joe Jackson, and Buck O'Neil. if bonds and Clemens are allowed in, Shoeless Joe should walk in with them. he was acquitted of all charges against him. In a nation that wants to send a player to jail for pergury, you would think if a man is acquitted, he would be considered Innocent and have his rights restored. .

[RobertR]

Acquited of what? It's not illegal to fix a ballgame, just against the rules of MLB. And, FWIW, Shoeless Joe in his sworn Grand Jury testimony admitted to taking $5,000.

 

Robert

[Fatter than Joey]

Yeah, I'd put Lynn higher. He played centerfield and was a fine defender as well.

 

Fred Lynn was an insanely good defender. I agree with Robert.

 

I also think Dwight Evans was a better player than Rice, although he didn't really peak until the early 80s. The difference in career hitting statistics is pretty minimal and Evans was a very good defensive player.

 

Evans was the master of the Green Monster.

[dadofandrew]

FTJ, Evans never played LF, did you mean Rice?

[iluvlamp]

I have nothing of substance to add, except, it's about damn time Goose got in.

[JimH5]

Gossage is deserving. I wish he would lose the ridiculous mustache.

 

I love the HOF, despite its warts. There are some questionable guys in there, but even if the standard were higher, there would always be guys who could straddle the line. You could remove Max Carey, Jesse Haines, Tony Perez, Rick Ferrell, Phil Rizzuto and Jim Bottomley, and then people would complain about the next level of guys. It's just the way it is with subjective standards. One guy's Hall of Famer is another guy's "not good enough".

 

It's vastly better than the Pro Football HOF, which has requirements for each year's class.

[pitchleague]

Al already got on that wagon, but I, too, thought "Dewey" played RF. Maybe I missed some of his early years in LF? But, wait, that's when Yaz was in LF. Or was he DH-1B by then? Anyhow, I do not remember Evans ever in left playing balls of the "Monstah"