Left Field?

[RickieDROPSbombs]

What happens if we dont accquire a guy like Kenny Lofton or a third baseman like Rolen or Chavez? Do we try a platoon with two untested players such as Dillon and Gross? Or should we try LaPorta out depending on what he does in ST?

[And That]

There is no scenario under which Ryan Braun should not be in the team's left fielder in '08. (Unless he's their right fielder.) If it means a Dillon/Counsell platoon at third base, so be it.

[Ennder]

My guess is we sign someone to add to the LF mix. There are still plenty of flawed LF options out there.

 

I personally doubt Braun gets moved to LF unless we get a real full time 3B.

[RockCoCougars]

Why not give Braun a chance to learn the position before you move him around? Third basemen are a lot herder to find than outfielders. I'd be all for Rolen, but I think that moving Braun for mediocrity is foolhardy.

[twobrewers]

There is no scenario under which Ryan Braun should not be in the team's left fielder in '08. (Unless he's their right fielder.) If it means a Dillon/Counsell platoon at third base, so be it.

Sir. I would like to subcribe to your newsletter!

 

Exactly correct. That is why I am ok with signing someone like Pedro Feliz. I pray Dillon will field and bat well enough to play 3B - but we need fall back options.

 

Lofton would still make a great 4th outfielder. (Bumping Gross to 5th)

[RockCoCougars]

Why not give Braun a chance to learn the position before you move him around? Third basemen are a lot harder to find than outfielders. I'd be all for Rolen, but I think that moving Braun for mediocrity is foolhardy.

[And That]

Why not give Braun a chance to learn the position before you move him around?

We gave him 113 games to learn it in the majors, plus 199 more in the minors. He was a shortstop in college for the most part. It's not like the transition, if he could have handled it, would have been difficult. He's toast at third base to me. He has a ton of batting value, but... Ryan Braun's defense at third is so poor that most African countries feel for him.

 

[Big Reed]

looking at hardicourt's last article, he says melvin seems to like the brewers the way they are. he sounds as if melvin has given up on adding any more key players. the recent baseball weekly analysis on the brewers goes on to say how well Weeks and fielder have improved defensively, and melvin expects braun to make the same type of strides defensively as our starting third baseman. . and gross / gwynn will be our left field platoon. Can you believe melvin's words? I 'm not so sure anymore. he said we were way over budget last year. Not signing any more big salaried players and staying with what we currently have is one way to get back to his projected budget. but then again, if he wanted to cut our budget, why was he pursueing tejada and blalock and rolen, unless he demanded each team to pick up the tab for a lot of their salaries, which was probably the deal killer. or he insisted they take Hall instead of Hart which was also a deal killer.

 

I expect the brewers to try to acquire lofton. but i expect lofton has been in the business long enough that he will sign with the team he expects will give him the best chance for a championship ring.

 

i think time has run out for the brewers to make a big trade, and that they'll go into the season with what they currently have.

[MNBrew]

Ryan Braun's defense at third is so poor that most African countries feel for him.

I get your point, but that seems to be a fairly tasteless way to make it.

You also talk as though Ryan Braun is incapable of meaningful improvement at 3B, but you're perfectly willing to throw him into another position he's never played. And That, you lobby hard and with such conviction that the only possible logical thing for the Crew to do is to move Braun to LF. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to consider it. It should tell all of us something that Melvin & Co. are considering this among their options. I think it also speaks volumes that Melvin, Yost, & Co. are not just jumping that way mindlessly.

 

Braun is a very athletic individual. For the same reasons Braun COULD possibly adapt well to LF, I believe he should be given a chance to continue to show improvement at 3B. Especially if he followed Yost's directive and took a ton of grounders every day this off-season, I think it's worth seeing if that effort pays any dividends.

[And That]

MNBrew wrote:

 

You also talk as though Ryan Braun is incapable of meaningful improvement at 3B, but you're perfectly willing to throw him into another position he's never played. And That, you lobby hard and with such conviction that the only possible logical thing for the Crew to do is to move Braun to LF. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to consider it. It should tell all of us something that Melvin & Co. are considering this among their options. I think it also speaks volumes that Melvin, Yost, & Co. are not just jumping that way mindlessly.

It isn't really mindless. It's realizing that Ryan Braun is so terrible at third that even if he improved so miraculously that his skills were inflated much like EFX was once huge in Vegas, he'd still be terrible.

Edit: I don't think it is tasteless, I think it is anecdotally true. If you're questioning my caring towards African nations, you should look at my donation record and political convictions.

[Ennder]

To be fair he was historically bad at 3B and has never showed anywhere close to average ability at the position, do we really want him learning on the job, probably lowering his offensive production and still playing below average at the position? This is a case of a player who most people think cannot handle 3B coming up and not just being bad but being worse than any player in the past 40ish years. I dunno I'd like to see us get a 3B too. But I still think we will have him at 3B unless we find a full time replacement, I doubt they move him for Dillon/Counsell.

[hp2444]

I am all for giving Braun a chance, but what worries me is the fact that a lot of his errors were the mental type throwing error. It wasn't as bad as the Chuck Knoblach Yankee era drama. I just can't get over how many times he made a routine play and then threw the ball into the third row.

[logan82]

My understanding was most of his errors were from footwork, not mental. He didn't throw balls he should have held most times. He just threw balls away.

[Snuffzilla]

My understanding is Braun changed Positions late in his College Career. From SS if I remember correctly. He needs another Year - or realistically 2 - to hone his Defensive Skills. Switching him to OF just Stunts his Defensive Development. Keep him @ 3B, eventually he'll be at the very least an Average 3B Defensively...

[jason21nl]

when Braun throws the ball from 3rd it tails into the runner. I wonder how it would be from throwing from the OF?

[logan82]

My understanding is Braun changed Positions late in his College Career. From SS if I remember correctly. He needs another Year - or realistically 2 - to hone his Defensive Skills. Switching him to OF just Stunts his Defensive Development. Keep him @ 3B, eventually he'll be at the very least an Average 3B Defensively.

He moved from SS to 3B his last year in college. 2007 was his 3rd year at 3B.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Braun's defense just isn't bad b/c of error. It's also bad because he has no range also. That's why it's historically bad, so just getting to cut his errors in half, probably won't get him to be a league average defensive player.

 

What do you think of signing Mike Cameron to play CF? I know he's out for 25 games to start the season, but that might make him cheap. We could plug TG jr. in CF for the first month, perhaps increasing his trade value and then cameron comes in and provides solid defense in CF and that allows us to move Hall to 3rd and Braun to lF.

[Fatter than Joey]

Or should we try Laporta out depending on what he does in ST?

 

LaPorta is not an option in 2008 -- unless there are monumental injuries.

[jazzytrav]

I think I'd like to see Braun in left. He has a strong arm and good speed, and 3rd base is so instinctive that his speed almost seems wasted there.

 

I honestly don't even care that much what they do with him as long as his bat is in the lineup. I'll take the errors if that's the best situation for the team. What it really comes down to is whether or not we pick someone up in FA yet, and then it depends on the comparison of the LF platoon or the 3rd base platoon. I honestly don't think a Gross/Gwynn platoon in left is that much better than a Dillon/Counsell platoon, so I think the best bet would be Braun in LF.

 

I'm also confused about the Gross/Gwynn platoon stated earlier in this thread...isn't the point of a platoon to have guys with differing abilities against right and left-handed pitchers? Does one of those guys hit lefties well?

[RockCoCougars]

To be fair he was historically bad at 3B and has never showed anywhere close to average ability at the position, do we really want him learning on the job, probably lowering his offensive production and still playing below average at the position?

Won't Braun be required to learn how to play left field? I'm not sure why everybody thinks that they will just plop Braun into the outfield and with no learning curve whatsoever, he will be a natural out there. Has he ever played the outfield regularly? Granted, in theory, the outfield is a little less complex than third base, but he could be a huge liability out there in any case. History is full of guys that ended up as first basemen because they couldn't cut the outfield defensively. Going further, I don't think that third base is as important defensive position as short or second. To illustrate that point, lots of broken down catchers have been moved to third over the years. My guess is that third base gets about the same number of chances as left does.

 

The guy was a shortstop in college, so he has to have some defensive skills. Give him another chance at third.

[trwi7]

RockCoCougars, you keep ignoring the fact that left field is one of the easiest positions to play on the field. Just look at some of the guys that play there.

[Gopher74]

Braun's defense just isn't bad b/c of error. It's also bad because he has no range also. That's why it's historically bad, so just getting to cut his errors in half, probably won't get him to be a league average defensive player.

I don't agree with this argument at all. His range factor, which I assume you're talking about is ruined by his errors.

 

If he cuts down on his errors, his "range" will all the sudden drastically improve. Braun can get to balls just fine, and for the most part, he can field them. His issues are throwing, and footwork. Will that improve? I don't know, that's for someone smarter than I to decide.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Gopher, when people are critical of Braun's range, you've made the assumption/leap that everyone is somehow inherently referring to RF - an outdated fielding metric full of holes (I know you feel that way about most defensive metrics iirc). Yet the people who've continued the discussion with you have stressed in nearly every instance that they aren't referring to RF, but instead his range itself.

 

Range is not equal to physical ability to cover ground - that's something at which Braun is skilled (& one reason why many think & have thought that he projects well to the OF). Range is the ability to field the position as determined by the scorer at the game, essentially. Yes, it's subjective, but it's not about RF as much as it is simply being able to handle what the naked (informed) eye deems the appropriate range for a given defensive spot.

 

With that, I'd never, nor will I ever, fault you for taking issue with how subjective it all is... but no one is focusing just on RF here. It's hard sometimes to differentiate the two, but range is certainly not = RF.

[logan82]

jazzytrav

If a Gross/Gwynn platoon was stated I have to believe they meant either Gwynn/Dillon or Gross/Dillon. With the Gross platoon being the most likely of the two.

[nate82]

Isn't Corey Patterson still available? He's only 28 years old and could play either left or center field. I would rather have the Brewers sign Patterson and put Braun in left field or keep him at 3rd and then move Hall to left or 3rd where he will be better defensively than he was in CF. Plus Patterson had a decent year last year with the Orioles in keeping his strike outs down and that was in the AL East.

 

He is still rather fast and I believe we could get him for cheap. He could also bat either 7th or lead off if Weeks goes down with an injury. I believe signing Patterson would be a better option than any of the names that have been thrown around lately in the rumors and what not.