Mark Ellis

[Milltownhooker]

Since the A's are obviously sellers he becomes an interesting trade target. Two question thou.

 

1. Can he play a solid 3B?

2. How much would he cost in terms of talent?

With all those pitching prospects they will need somebody guarenteed to eat inngs. So would a Bush, Gwynn, Escobar offer hold interest for them?

[dadofandrew]

Beane will not be afraid to suck. He will not care about an innings eater.

 

I do not see Ellis as an upgrade over Gross or any cheap option at 3B.

[brettac1]

I wouldn't trade Bush for Ellis. Definitely not with Ellis playing 3B.

 

Maybe if you wanted to move Weeks to CF and put Ellis at 2B, because he's an excellent defensive player. The best 2B in the league, probably.

[Cooper]

I would honestly rather have Kotsay than Ellis, but there's no real way I would ever want Kotsay. I guess that displays how much I wouldn't want Ellis.

[JohnBriggs12]

Okay, I'll be the contrarian (again).

 

If they picked up Ellis and moved Weeks to the OF, it would be a bigger overall defensive upgrade than replacing Braun with most of the guys mentioned. We're talking about a guy who made 5 errors in 150 games (vs. Weeks' 13 in 115 games) at a more key defensive spot than third.

 

Furthermore, Ellis' offense is comparable or better than most of the third basemen whose name's have come up including Rolen (if you look at what he did in 07). The only negative is that he's righthanded and doesn't add much speed. I'd liken him to Mark Loretta in his prime with a little more power and a little lower average.

 

Ellis for Bush would be a steal for the Brewers.

[erbacaine04]

Weeks has improved his Defense alot and I think you see him at 8 or 9 errors in 2008...plus I would hate to see another player struggle hitting when getting use to a new postition.... Braun I think could handle a switch better than Hall or Weeks he just seems like a proffessional hitter no matter what is going on around him.... Weeks and Hall have always been the "when things are going bad I am a bad player" type... Plus this would be Melvin having to admit yet another mistake by not moving Weeks to CF and Hall moving to 2nd like most of us were arguing for...

[JohnBriggs12]

Weeks has improved his Defense alot and I think you see him at 8 or 9 errors in 2008...plus I would hate to see another player struggle hitting when getting use to a new postition.... Braun I think could handle a switch better than Hall or Weeks he just seems like a proffessional hitter no matter what is going on around him.... Weeks and Hall have always been the "when things are going bad I am a bad player" type... Plus this would be Melvin having to admit yet another mistake by not moving Weeks to CF and Hall moving to 2nd like most of us were arguing for...

He did improve and could still. But he often failed to turn easy double plays in critical situations by pulling Fielder off the base or throwing balls into the dirt. No error assessed but bad defense nontheless.

 

I also think it's rather presumptious to think that Weeks couldn't "handle" a switch as well as Braun.

 

Having a veteran in the middle infield would go farther in my opinion to settle down the entire defense.

 

This is all theory as I would be shocked if they got Ellis though.

[Gopher74]

Weeks has improved his Defense alot and I think you see him at 8 or 9 errors in 2008...plus I would hate to see another player struggle hitting when getting use to a new postition.... Braun I think could handle a switch better than Hall or Weeks he just seems like a proffessional hitter no matter what is going on around him.... Weeks and Hall have always been the "when things are going bad I am a bad player" type... Plus this would be Melvin having to admit yet another mistake by not moving Weeks to CF and Hall moving to 2nd like most of us were arguing for...

I guess I don't agree with the line of thinking that because Hall struggled with his move, that Weeks will. I don't think of Braun as a more "professional" type hitter than Weeks either. In fact, I think it's just the opposite. It's easy to say that about Braun after last year, but I think in 10 months, people will be saying the exact opposite.

 

And I really don't get the "when things are going bad, I am a bad player" type. I just don't understand that. Is that because of his wrist injury? I'd ask what else would lead you to believe that about Weeks? If anything, I think Weeks proved last year that when things are going bad for him, he's willing to do anything to help out the team. If anyone can recall when he was really struggling last year, his willingness to take a HBP, him going into second hard, or him bowling over a catcher when presented the opportunity.

 

I do agree though that Weeks will take another step this year and become a average defensive 2nd basemen who makes some spectacular plays. He's shown that ability in the past, now I think it'll become more regular.

[logan82]

I think at this point we would get better defense out of Weeks leaving him where he is than we would if he was at a new position.

[Gopher74]

I think at this point we would get better defense out of Weeks leaving him where he is than we would if he was at a new position.

I agree with that. I do think back to last year though, and wish they'd have moved him to CF. He's just got all the tools to become a great CF'er. He's got great speed, exceptional quickness, and a cannon for an arm. His arm would definitely be a plus arm in CF.

 

The logic just never made sense to me. They said they think he's going to turn into a very good hitter for a 2nd basemen. I guess I didn't/don't see what it matters who plays what position in relation to offense. If Weeks is in CF, and Hall 2nd, does it matter what each does offensively in relation to position?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

It always matters relative to position. Especially since a position like 2B it's much harder to find a big hitter than at LF or 1B. 2008 will be a great example of how having Weeks's offense at 2B is beneficial. A lot of teams will have corner OFs that can match Hart's production, and 1B that will be near Fielder's - but next to none will have as potent of offense as provided by Rickie.

[Gopher74]

It always matters relative to position. Especially since a position like 2B it's much harder to find a big hitter than at LF or 1B. 2008 will be a great example of how having Weeks's offense at 2B is beneficial. A lot of teams will have corner OFs that can match Hart's production, and 1B that will be near Fielder's - but next to none will have as potent of offense as provided by Rickie.

My point is if you have the same two players in the lineup either way, then it doesn't matter if one gives you above average production for his position.

 

I mean, Weeks and Hall were going to start last year either way, so what does it matter if Weeks offense is considered above average at 2nd base, but only average for CF? That's a hollow argument IMO and a bad reason to leave Weeks at 2nd.

 

And for that matter, wouldn't the argument be made that Hall would give up above average production for a 2nd basemen? Certainly going into last year when he was coming off a 06 season in which he lead all of baseball for SLG for a shortstop.

 

It just didn't make sense.

[logan82]

Weeks more than likley will be with the Brewers longer than Hall. Hall isn't a good infield defender either.

[Gopher74]

Weeks more than likley will be with the Brewers longer than Hall. Hall isn't a good infield defender either.

Maybe, but as of now, they're both signed for the same period of time, or controlled for the same period of time, and that wasn't part of the logic behind it last year. Plus, if you're going to look that far into the future, the Brewers have better middle infield prospects coming up in the near future than CF prospects.

 

Anyway, I doubt that played into their decision to keep Weeks where he was. Not when you've got both for the next 4 years(at the time). In fact, I don't think any team moves guys to a new position based on the who's likely going to stick around after 4 years.

 

[logan82]

Weeks also has a higher upside than Hall and is younger. I think they would rather keep Weeks over Hall and if that is the case a bat in CF is easier to replace than a 2B with Weeks offense. My guess is that the main reason is still that Hall isn't really a good defender in the infield. If he was I would guess Weeks would have been moved instead of Hall. Still say that there is a pretty good chance Weeks signs a contract that buys out at least one of his FA years which leaves him here longer than Hall.

[endaround]

Hall is a much better defender than Weeks though. Hall was moved because it was easier because he bounced around, not due to some overarching strategy unfortunately.

 

And CF=2B pretty much offensively

[Gopher74]

Weeks also has a higher upside than Hall and is younger. I think they would rather keep Weeks over Hall and if that is the case a bat in CF is easier to replace than a 2B with Weeks offense. My guess is that the main reason is still that Hall isn't really a good defender in the infield. If he was I would guess Weeks would have been moved instead of Hall. Still say that there is a pretty good chance Weeks signs a contract that buys out at least one of his FA years which leaves him here longer than Hall.

I certainly don't disagree with the fact that Weeks has a lot more upside. I'm of the opinion that Weeks is in the same group as Braun and Prince talent wise, but my even taking that into consideration, and the fact that he's younger, both are likely to be here for the next 4 years, and to make a plan based on what may happen after that, to the detriment of the present just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Assuming both bats will be in the lineup either way, I thought the Brewers were a better team with Bill Hall playing 2nd base and Weeks playing CF. Now maybe Weeks wasn't willing, Hall said he'd rather, maybe Weeks just doesn't judge Fly Balls well, whatever the case may be, I just don't buy the reason the front office gave, and it didn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[mothershipconnection]

Braun I think could handle a switch better than Hall or Weeks he just seems like a proffessional hitter no matter what is going on around him....

 

The critical element in the "switching positions hurts offense" theory, is that struggling in the field distracts and frustrates the player, who can no longer concentrate on offense as well because he's stressed out over his defensive failures. This should not be an issue with Braun, who isn't gonna be any more disappointed in himself in OF than he'd be at 3rd. If anything, maybe he'd become better as a hitter by not being a defensive butcher anymore.