Donovan: Brewers have had second worst offseason

[paul253]

You're essentially saying that he has failed thus far because he still has TOO many MLB starting caliber pitchers.

Thats exactly what he's saying. It doesn't really matter how many major league ready pitchers you have, you can only use five. Sure someone is going to get hurt, and thats where the depth comes in, but I think for the most part you only need one, maybe two extra pitchers. So with Sheets, Gallardo, Capuano, Suppan, Parra, Vargas, Villanueva, and Bush, plus someone like Jackson who can be called up in case of an emergency....you do have too many pitchers (9). When you have nobody to play left field and very little quality depth for position players, it seems stupid to hang onto that many starters when two or three can be flipped for something you need.

[And That]

I think for the most part you only need one, maybe two extra pitchers.

The 2006 Milwaukee Brewers disagree with you.

 

[AdvantageSchneider]

I actually thought his most idiotic point in his article was where he mentioned the Barry Bonds to Oak. rumor that some SF newspaper printed in Oct. Does he really think Oak. is going to sign bonds for the amount of money it would take to get him in uniform for a team that is in a rebuilding mode? Barry's not going to play for the money that Frank Thomas and Mike Piazza signed for. That rumor wasn't worth repeating, especially since it was so old. Reprinting it with not taking into consideration the trades Oakland made just makes the writer look extremely lazy, stupid or both.

[logan82]

I can understand how our offseason could be seen as bad. We really haven't improved much over last year. We basically got one more arm for the pen and traded SLG for OBP in LF and catcher so far. I wouldn't say we have to many pitchers, but we have one more than we can hold onto without exposing a guy to waivers. I wouldn't term any one move as bad, but they were mostly moves to replace one guy with another guy of approx equal talent.

[Gopher74]

Thats exactly what he's saying. It doesn't really matter how many major league ready pitchers you have, you can only use five. Sure someone is going to get hurt, and thats where the depth comes in, but I think for the most part you only need one, maybe two extra pitchers. So with Sheets, Gallardo, Capuano, Suppan, Parra, Vargas, Villanueva, and Bush, plus someone like Jackson who can be called up in case of an emergency....you do have too many pitchers (9). When you have nobody to play left field and very little quality depth for position players, it seems stupid to hang onto that many starters when two or three can be flipped for something you need.

It's Jan 3rd. To honestly complain that he hasn't made a move yet is patently absurd. We've got time, and to just make a deal to make a deal seldom turns out well. There can be a hundreds reasons why waiting to move SP'ing can net you more value in return, but the fact is, I don't think anyone knows. What I do know is that Melvin's not going to make what he thinks is a bad deal, and that's not something he should be criticized for, rather commended for.

 

And as I've said, if we have to, make a small move dealing Vargas, and then go into next year with Bush and Cappy. Maybe sign Ensberg as an insurance policy, and then when someone goes down, which will inevitably happen, make a move. Plus that'd give Cappy a chance to prove he's better than he was in 2007.

 

But again, in today's market, having too many quality starters simply can not be a bad thing.

[jason21nl]

this off season reminds me a lot of the past brewers season. At first it was don't panic we have a big lead in the division , then it was stay calm we still have a good lead in the division then it was sit back and enjoy the ride, and it ended with a finish behind the Cubs. This off season has been don't worry the Winter meetings haven't even started. Then the Winter meetings ended and now its stay calm its only dec. Now its into Jan and people are saying its absurd to complain that he hasn't made a move yet. As or right now, I don't think we have gotten any better than last year. Sure we could make a move tomorrow to make the team better, but until that move is made, I'm going to worry a little bit.

[Gopher74]

this off season reminds me a lot of the past brewers season. At first it was don't panic we have a big lead in the division , then it was stay calm we still have a good lead in the division then it was sit back and enjoy the ride, and it ended with a finish behind the Cubs. This off season has been don't worry the Winter meetings haven't even started. Then the Winter meetings ended and now its stay calm its only dec. Now its into Jan and people are saying its absurd to complain that he hasn't made a move yet. As or right now, I don't think we have gotten any better than last year. Sure we could make a move tomorrow to make the team better, but until that move is made, I'm going to worry a little bit.

I don't know. I thought we made a lot of moves.

 

Signed Gange

Signed Riske

Signed Kendall

Traded for Torres

Traded Estrada for Mota

Dumped Wise

We improved our middle relief a great deal which was a huge concern, and we went out after losing Cordero to an exorbitant contract, and got the best remaining closer on the market. We got what was arguably the best SU man on the market, and we got Torres who was an exceptional and durable reliever for three years before a down year last year.

 

I don't know how anyone could honestly say that our Bullpen isn't better this year. That just seems like a no-brainer to me. Last year our biggest problem was with Turnbow IMO, and not having someone to follow him up with other than Cordero. This year if Turnbow falters, you've got Riske, Torres, Mota who have all been SU men and closed at some point as well as Gange. That alone should make us a better team.

 

We lose Jenkins which with his great .317 OBP isn't a real loss. We lost Mench who again, isn't going to make anyone think of Teddy Ballgame with his on base skills.

 

We traded Kendall with Estrada which is a clear upgrade, the only question is how big of one.

 

So the only thing that we haven't done that you'd have said we should do going into this off-season is unload one of our starting pitchers for a LF'er/3rd basemen, and this is honestly cause for concern? Would it make you happy if we just made a trade for the sake of making a trade? Teams aren't looking for the second tier options right now, and understandably so. There are still big names being thrown around. When those situations clear, maybe in ST when a team decides they need another starter, or hell, even into next year when a starter goes down, that'll be addressed, but I have a hard time getting upset about not having traded Cappy, Bush or Vargas yet.

[Boy Jeenius]

Who cares what the national press guys say? 2 years ago thet were all pointing out that the Pirates were the team ready to break out because they signed a bunch of veteran spares like Jeremy Burnitz. Just give them a bunch of shiny pennys and they'll trade you their crumpled up old dollar. The Brewers big improvement comes this year from our kids having another year of big league experience, and a that year was in a pennant race to boot.

[jason21nl]

you'll just have to forgive me for not jumping up and down and getting all excited for getting a bunch of what if and maybe players. Mota, Torres, and Gagne don't really do it for me. Still have a gaping huge hole at 3rd and another defensive hole at 2nd and we still have in infielder playing CF. Doesn't really matter what the pitching is going to look like if you're always going to have a crappy D. There is still lots of time for deals to be made, but like I said, until they are made, I'm going to worry a bit.

[Gopher74]

you'll just have to forgive me for not jumping up and down and getting all excited for getting a bunch of what if and maybe players. Mota, Torres, and Gagne don't really do it for me. Still have a gaping huge hole at 3rd and another defensive hole at 2nd and we still have in infielder playing CF. Doesn't really matter what the pitching is going to look like if you're always going to have a crappy D. There is still lots of time for deals to be made, but like I said, until they are made, I'm going to worry a bit.

An IF'er playing CF? Honestly? Most CF'ers were at one time IF'ers. Robin Yount if you'll recall was a pretty good CF'er, and Hall ended up getting significantly better as the season went on.

 

Second, nobody asked you to "jump up and down", however don't complain about us "not making a move" when we've been as active as just about any team in baseball thus far.

 

Third, what does Weeks have to do with this conversation? Is there currently any scenario in which he doesn't play 2nd base? Like the Hall comment, I don't understand that one. Weeks improved a great deal there last year, and at 24, there's no reason to think he won't continue to improve. Having Rickie Weeks at 2nd base isn't going to stop this team from doing anything. Add in what a healthy Weeks should do, and whatever concerns there may be about his defense quite frankly don't really matter.

 

So you're left with one single move to be made on this team, and there's this rush to complain about it on Jan 3rd. I just don't get that. It honestly seems that some people just want a move to be made for the sake of making one. I'm sure Melvin's got backup plans, and he'll do something. If not, I'm fine with that as well. Simply having Gallardo and Villy, plus improved middle relief should make this team significantly better without expecting the young position players to improve. And like I've said, if that's the case, then Melvin will likely look to do something next year after teams are looking for pitching or have gotten off to poor starts.

 

Either way, it just doesn't seem like something I'm going to get upset about right now.

[Zycho32]

Sports Columnists are usually a lot like Catchers; a few elite ones, but mostly average or worse.

 

Whether or not Donovan is a crack-pot masquerading as a legitimate studier of Baseball, you may as well understand we've earned nothing yet, and certainly not the benefit of a doubt when it comes to the moves the team as made.

 

For instance, everybody's saying Gange only blew it in eighteen innings with Boston, but had about fifty or so very good innings in Texas. However, Boston is a team that contended for and won the World Series, working under a much glaring spotlight, and might've actually sunk if so many of their players didn't pick up the slack. In comparasion, what the hell was Texas doing during the season? A casual person might very well say Gange has no stomach for the really important games, something you don't want on a team like Milwaukee, trying very hard to get back into the Playoffs, let alone the world series.

 

Beyond that, we're also staking a lot of hopes on players who might just as easily crumble back to the stats they produced the previous year as opposed to a few years back when they were still producing quality performances. Combine that with how we generally collapsed last year, and the prognosis seems clear; Until we get the monkey off our back, we'll be lumped in with all the desperate pretenders.

[jason21nl]

An IF'er playing CF? Honestly? Most CF'ers were at one time IF'ers. Robin Yount if you'll recall was a pretty good CF'er, and Hall ended up getting significantly better as the season went on.

You're talking about a Hall of fame player vs Hall who I think should go back to a utility role or to 3rd. Hall did get better I just don't think he is a CFer.

 

Second, nobody asked you to "jump up and down", however don't complain about us "not making a move" when we've been as active as just about any team in baseball thus far.

Just because we have been active doesn't mean that the players they brought in are going to be good. Like I said, Mota and company doesn't excite me.

Third, what does Weeks have to do with this conversation? Is there currently any scenario in which he doesn't play 2nd base

of course he is going to play 2nd and sure he might have gotten better. However he still is really bad at 2nd. My whole point is that we haven't addressed a HUGE weakness in this team, which is the D. Sure they got Kendall and i suppose he is an upgrade from Estrada. Like I also said, there is still time to do that, but until then, I'm going to worry a bit.

[Gopher74]

Third, what does Weeks have to do with this conversation? Is there currently any scenario in which he doesn't play 2nd base

of course he is going to play 2nd and sure he might have gotten better. However he still is really bad at 2nd. My whole point is that we haven't addressed a HUGE weakness in this team, which is the D. Sure they got Kendall and i suppose he is an upgrade from Estrada. Like I also said, there is still time to do that, but until then, I'm going to worry a bit.

You're talking about a Hall of fame player vs Hall who I think should go back to a utility role or to 3rd. Hall did get better I just don't think he is a CFer.

No, with all due respect, I'm addressing how ridiculous I think it is that you say Hall's an IF'er suggesting that he's not a good CF'er. In the second half of his first year, he proved to be a solid defender, and I see no reason he wouldn't improve upon that in his second season playing there. Certainly to the point where he need not be mentioned when talking about our defensive weaknesses, and quite possibly to the point where his defense in CF is a strength.

Just because we have been active doesn't mean that the players they brought in are going to be good. Like I said, Mota and company doesn't excite me.

 

Like I said, we made several moves. And not being happy is far different from your original stance that we haven't made any moves. One's simply not agreeing with the moves that have been made, one's suggesting a reluctance to make the moves for whatever reason. Melvin's been very willing to make moves. He's just hit a snag on the final piece AS-OF-NOW.

of course he is going to play 2nd and sure he might have gotten better. However he still is really bad at 2nd. My whole point is that we haven't addressed a HUGE weakness in this team, which is the D. Sure they got Kendall and i suppose he is an upgrade from Estrada. Like I also said, there is still time to do that, but until then, I'm going to worry a bit.

I guess it's just a different perspective. I see this team right now as a team that's the best team in the NL Central simply with another year under their belt's, and mainly the additions of Riske and Torres which will make Turnbow more effective in my opinion. I'm perfectly content with them going into the season like they are right now, and then making a move when Cappy hopefully returns to form and Parra's shown he's got no need for AAA any longer. The upside there is that you can really limit Parra's innings. But that's neither here nor there. You obviously think them winning is dependent upon them making a move to improve their IF defense. I understand that. I just don't understand the perceived complaining about our aggressiveness thus far.

[jason21nl]

you obviously think them winning is dependent upon them making a move to improve their IF defense. I understand that.

 

Thats exactly where I'm coming from. I think their D cost them the playoffs last year, and as of right now, they pretty much have the same D going back out there. The guys they got so far, are all a wash from the guys we had. They could turn out to be better, or they all could fall on their face. We'll see what happens I guess. I hope that I'm being a worry wart for nothing.

 

 

I also hope that I never use the phrase worry wart again.

[Zycho32]

I doubt we'll have any 'exciting' acquisitions until we win on a consistant basis and finally shed about fifteen years worth of futility.

[logan82]

Until the financial equity in MLB changes I think all our "exciting" additions are going to be contained to every June.

[Gopher74]

jason21nl wrote:

Thats exactly where I'm coming from. I think their D cost them the playoffs last year, and as of right now, they pretty much have the same D going back out there. The guys they got so far, are all a wash from the guys we had. They could turn out to be better, or they all could fall on their face. We'll see what happens I guess. I hope that I'm being a worry wart for nothing.

That's the biggest thing I don't agree with.

 

CL-Cordero vs Gange

Clearly I'd feel better with Cordero here, but while it's a downgrade, I don't think it's going to be a huge downgrade. Gange's ALWAYS been a very good closer, and his stuff was still there last year. This being his second year back from injury will hopefully yield even better results than in Texas. At least hopefully he'll be able to handle a larger role.

But that's the only place I believe there's even a question.

SU-Riske-Linebrink

Riske has been a very good SU man for years, pitching in the best division last year and posting an ERA of 2.55 after a awful start(I believe his ERA was about 1.55 the last 5 months). His numbers are comparable to Linebrinks over the last couple years and he did it in the AL, and Linebrink seems to be on the decline, but either way, he wasn't anything special for us. I think Riske's a very good pickup.

SU-Torrres-Wise

I honestly don't know why people are more excited about Torres. The guy had a injury last year, one he's suppose to be fully recovered from, and was a very valuable member of the Pirates pen the last three years before that. Throwing 90 innings a year with a very good ERA? I think this could be the best addition thus far. Certainly more durable than Wise.

 

MRP-Mota-McClung/Spurling

Whoever Mota takes over for, he likely can't be much worse. This is a case where you're pretty much hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, but so be it. If you do, great. If not, he's the last guy in your pen. It's not gonna kill ya.

 

And as I've said, I think what it really does is gives you insurance on a game to game basis for Turnbow. Turnbow's your 7th inning guy for instance. You bring him in, if he starts out wild, now Yost has three or four other viable options to bring in whereas for much of last year, he had Cordero and you can't burn out your closer all year long. I think this makes Turnbow that much more effective.

 

And yes, I understand that each of these guys had question marks from last year. The fact is, if they didn't, we'd never have gotten them. If Gange didn't have that hiccup in Boston, he'd be getting a 3 year deal worth 30 million or so.

If Torres didn't have elbow soreness last year, he'd have required a lot more than we gave up.

If Mota threw like he did in 06.....well, I don't he'd ever have been THAT hard to get, but my point is, I get that you can't be totally comfortable with these guys, but they're proven winners, and they've proven to be very good big league relievers, and that, more than defense IMO was our biggest need.

 

Finally, I don't believe Weeks is going to be any concern next year. I think he'll take that next step and be a average to slightly below average 2nd basemen, and if he hits like it looks like he will after the wrist got healed, then you can easily live with him. Ultimately I think Braun gets moved, but even if he doesn't, I still think we're a much better team than last year. And I don't think Braun's AS BAD as people on here say. Yes, he was the worst in the league last year, but he's not the worst 3rd basemen EVER as some would suggest. He'll improve. Look at Edwin Encarnacion. He was awful there last year, and he really stepped up last year.

 

 

[ecjimg]

On a related note (bad national media)......I read today in the current USA Sports Weekly, that the Brewers starting rotation will be Sheets, Suppan, Bush, Capuano and "young pitchers Claudio Vargas and Yovanni Gallardo probably will compete for the no. 5 spot". Also, there was no mention of Carlos Villanueva, not even in their paragraph on relief pitchers. Stuff like this makes me wonder why I even read it for info on the other 29 teams.

[SmartBall]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote about how the Cubs were going to run away with the division a few weeks ago. I am not thrilled with the Crew's off-season to this point, but Donovan makes Tom H look like a genius. What isn't completely unintelligible is poorly reasoned to say the least. Articles like this make me so mad because I see the preview and get excited about mid-winter baseball coverage and then I read it and realize I knew more about baseball than this guy when I was in junior high.

[logan82]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote about how the Cubs were going to run away with the division a few weeks ago. I am not thrilled with the Crew's off-season to this point, but Donovan makes Tom H look like a genius. What isn't completely unintelligible is poorly reasoned to say the least. Articles like this make me so mad because I see the preview and get excited about mid-winter baseball coverage and then I read it and realize I knew more about baseball than this guy when I was in junior high.

All right I will say it. Tom H has had a pretty good offseason with his blogs. They have been pretty informative. Just stop reading before the comments at the bottom.

[TooLiveBrew]

ecjimg, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that writer thought he was getting his CV right, when he just mistook Vargas for Villanueva - probably because, on a quick google stats check, he didn't see a lot of starts from Carlos last year. Which leads me to...

A long time ago, I wanted to become a sportswriter. Then, I started to read articles like John Donovan's. Please.

 

Amen, buck2281. Ditto. Sports'writer.' Ugh.

 

Excellent points all, Gopher74. Glad to hear someone keeping the offseason in reality, as opposed to what the national sports'writers' would have us believe.

[DougJones43]

Until Ryan Braun is officially relieved of his 3B defensive duties and begins working in the outfield, this off-season is a disappointment. As it stands now, here is what the Brewers have:

- a terrible defense

- a corner OF playing infield

- an infielder playing CF

- a servicable CF playing corner OF

 

Somehow, this "mind bender" has seemingly thrown Milwaukee's management for a loop as they attempt to improve team defense. Seems like there is a pretty simple way to remedy the equation listed above. Look hard. You'll find it.

[Gopher74]

On a related note (bad national media)......I read today in the current USA Sports Weekly, that the Brewers starting rotation will be Sheets, Suppan, Bush, Capuano and "young pitchers Claudio Vargas and Yovanni Gallardo probably will compete for the no. 5 spot". Also, there was no mention of Carlos Villanueva, not even in their paragraph on relief pitchers. Stuff like this makes me wonder why I even read it for info on the other 29 teams.

LOL...hmm...ya think that just maybe Gallardo has an outside shot at that "5th" spot? C'mon. I'd be shocked if Gallardo doesn't pitch in the first series of the season. Not as shocked as I'll be if Bush AND Cappy are in the rotation, but shocked all the same.

 

Seriously though, that's beyond ridiculous. If you don't even have the most basic knowledge of a team, so much so that you have to resort to looking at last years stats to figure out who may be the starters, then don't even attempt to write about them. You just come off looking like a fool.

 

[Oldcity]

My favorite is his most lopsided trade. The A's acquire six "no-name" players. Gee, could that be because John Donovan doesn't know anything about minor league prospects?

[Invader3K]

Somehow, this "mind bender" has seemingly thrown Milwaukee's management for a loop as they attempt to improve team defense. Seems like there is a pretty simple way to remedy the equation listed above. Look hard. You'll find it.

 

I know I've used this cliche a million times, but the Brewers seem to be stuck in the "square peg, meet round hole" mentality with their position players.