Donovan: Brewers have had second worst offseason

[patrickgpe]

link

 

The brewers addressed their needs without having to give a closer a long term contract and upgraded their pen, what more do you want? Alot of team traded major league talent away for prospects (a's and marlins), did nothing, or signed players to long and bad contracts. The brewers did neither of the 3, so i'll be less critical.

 

also gagne named worse free agent pitcher signing of off season. Don't get that one either alot of starting pitchers got paid too much and for too long.

 

Edit: Spelling in the title. - Toby

[paul253]

what more do you want

 

They completely overpaid for a below average catcher with a two year deal. I don't totally disagree with the Gagne deal because it was a one year deal, but $10 million is a lot of money for someone who struggled so badly last year. Obtaining Mota isn't going to do much, but I think the Torres and Riske deals were good. So far I cant see anyone being overly happy with the Brewers offseason. I guess it depends on what they do to solve their left field/third base dilemna. If a Joe Dillon platoon is the answer to either one, count me as very disappointed.

 

[patrickgpe]

well technically its a 1 year deal, so the second year can be voided by keeping him out of the lineup and i still feel its an upgrade from Estrada.

[sheethead]

I am pretty disappointed so far with the Brewers offseason, but with players getting the dollars they are getting its hard for me to fault Melvin for not pulling the trigger on another Suppan-esque deal. Maybe addition by subtraction serve the Brewers well (Jenkins, Mench, Wise, Estrada).

[RyDogg66]

Im not disagreeing with Donovon's statement that the Brewers are not having a good winter, but what he writes is ridiculous. Does he even read his own column??

 

In two separate spots he says...

 

The Reds need to overpay pitchers to come throw in the glove box known as Great American Ball Park. So they snuck in on former Brewers closer Francisco Cordero -- Cincinnati general manager Wayne Krivsky does a lot of things quietly -- and lured him with a too-long four-year, too-high $46 million deal.

and, under worst signings says:

 

3) The market for mediocre relievers continues to climb, and Scott Linebrink (four years, $19 million with the White Sox) simply rode the wave.

Then in saying that the Brewers have had the worst offseason he writes:

 

2) The Brewers lost their closer (Cordero) and a key setup man (Linebrink), then had to overspend to get Gagne and David Riske to plug the holes.

What? They overspent on Gagne and Riske...only they actually spent much less than they would have to keep Cordero and Linebrink...and Donovon says people overspent on those two.

 

I dont get it.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I think we are all pretty underwhelmed as of right now in regard to the off-season but aren't we 1 OBP OF'er or a great fielding decent stick at 3b away from really having our team set? The bullpen has been rebuilt, I think it definitely will be better than last year!!

Besides defense this team doesn't have many holes, just alot of questions (health etc...)

 

Get back soon Doug http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

[MessiahRp]

Well he didn't say Cordero sucked, so losing a good closer and replacing him with an overpaid guy who struggled hard last year would count as a bad replacement. Of course Cordero is overpaid but the Brewers haven't really plugged any of their holes with super quality players and that's where I think his assessment is drawn from (although I personally consider Riske an upgrade to Linebrink or pretty much the majority of the pen last year, but that's just me).

 

-Rp

[MNBrew]

Patrickgpe, I think you summarized the Brewers' offseason a whole lot more intelligently than the SI.com guy did.

 

Overpaid for a below-average catcher? Shoot, 80% of the catchers produce at a level most would consider below-average. If Kendall hadn't tanked in Oakland the 1st half of last year, he may not have been available, and I seriously doubt we could've gotten him so relatively cheaply. Given the options, I think the Kendall signing was already good and it may look even better.

 

If Gagne flames out, at least it was only a 1-year deal. He was solid in Texas, only crappy the last 2 months in Boston. I'll take more of a chance with him closing in the NL (lots of historical success) vs. setting up in the AL (small sample).

 

It has been a very un-flashy off-season to be sure. Boring is almost as apt a description. But the Brewers only have one major hole to plug, they still have excess starting pitching to trade (and arguably potentially a little bullpen depth such as Turnbow or Mota or a young guy or two) while tons of teams would consider some of those available players respectable upgrades, and decent, potentially obtainable guys are still out there if the Crew wants to go for it in terms of money (Rolen's contract, Lofton or others as FAs, etc.) or assets (talent needed to trade).

 

I like what the Brewers have accomplished so far, unsplashy as it has been. I just hope there are a couple moves left to go, either obtaining the bat still needed for LF/3B or acquiring moderate prospects for the SP excess.

[patrickgpe]

kc i agree with you. While we definately made no splashes this offseason we accomplished one of the 2 main goals we had. I'd be disappointed if the LF/3B problem isn't dealt with but its too early to be critical of doug for not addressing it.

[Ennder]

Our offseason is more risky than it is bad. If Kendall reverts to his 2006 and second half of 2007 numbers he'll be a bargain at that price. If Gagne puts up pre-Boston trade numbers he's a bargain for a 1 year deal. Riske is a decent deal regardless. Torres was a decent trade regardless. Mota can be an ok trade if he reverts to a league average RP.

 

There is a lot of risk in these moves but they are only 1 year risks in general, It is silly to say we had the 2nd worst winter of any team.

[JohnBriggs12]

Not only have the Brewers failed to land the LH bat they need, they've failed to clear the starting pitching logjam that if not addressed might lead them to have to choose between eating arby inflated contracts or starting the season with one or two of their 5 best starters in Nashville instead of Milwaukee.

 

I can't remember a recent offseason when Melvin has so much to do after January 1.

[Ennder]

I dunno, if they make one trade all of the problems are clearing up. Otherwise they trade Vargas for a prospect and pick up some mediocre OF like a Wilkerson type that is out there. These are not gaping holes that need to be fixed since LF wasn't exactly the strongest spot last year(tied for worst position on team with C).

 

Sheets

Gallardo

Suppan

Villanueva

Capuano

 

Bush

Mota

Torres

Gagne

Turnbow

Riske

Shouse

Vargas

 

 

The rest of the pitchers can start the year in the minors I believe. Parra comes up at the first injury. I wouldn't really want to carry 13 P's but it isn't the end of the world either. Just means Counsell and Dillon play more.

 

So yeah we could use some work but I don't know about it being a dire situation.

[Gopher74]

Not only have the Brewers failed to land the LH bat they need, they've failed to clear the starting pitching logjam that if not addressed might lead them to have to choose between eating arby inflated contracts or starting the season with one or two of their 5 best starters in Nashville instead of Milwaukee.

 

I can't remember a recent offseason when Melvin has so much to do after January 1.

You're essentially saying that he has failed thus far because he still has TOO many MLB starting caliber pitchers.

 

That's ridiculous to me. I'd much rather he wait for everything to settle, and if need be, go into next season with Cappy, Bush and Vargas, and then wait for an injury rather than trade them now when the demand isn't as high as it could be. What's so wrong with letting Parra get another half year in AAA, wait on his clock, let him develop a little more, allow Cappy to prove he's back, then spin him for a LF'er/3rd basemen when his value has bounced back?

I think if we had a solid BP last year, we'd have been in the playoffs, and I think he did a great job in improving our BP. That alone makes it a good off-season.

 

 

[TerraceReserved]

JB12, they only have 2 things to do. (if that) They need either a 3b or leftfielder, but that might not even happen as Melvin may just go with a Grillon platoon. They have to trade 1 or 2 of our SP, and those two problems are directly connected, as a trade for a 3b/Lf will include our SP. 1, maybe 2 deals is all we really have left.

[crewcrazy]

I think John Donovan should just stop writing. He's written so much mindless drivel recently that I can't take anything he does too seriously. Writing off the Gagne signing as one of the worst of the offseason because he had a rough 18 innings in Boston after having a great 33 innings in Texas is pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. He won't have a rubber arm like Cordero did last year, but it's still a very solid signing when you consider there's no real risk involved. I'm just tired of guys like Donovan writing off the signing as horrible because of the per year dollar amount.

 

There's still a couple months left in the offseason...just because the free agent signing is mostly done doesn't mean that the offseason is over. A trade could come out of nowhere at any time, like today's Swisher trade. Sure, the Brewers' additions this offseason haven't been sexy, but I'd rather see them avoid making moves just for the sake of making moves. I imagine the uproar would be greater if the Brewers traded Capuano and Vargas for peanuts than if they just held onto them if they can't find a deal.

[Ennder]

Mediocre SP's are hard to trade right now because most teams are set with their rotation, looking at higher end SP's in trade or are looking at testing their young arms first. It wouldn't surprise me if Vargas, Bush or Capuano leaves during spring training to some team that suddenly realizes they need another arm.

[brewers255]

Also has anyone noticed in the top teams for the winter, the Yankees are number one because they signed there own guys and overpaid for them? I mean come on, how is paying yr 37.5 million a good deal for the Red Sox?

 

Also this one gets me pretty pissed and laughable at how bad of a writer he is

 

3) If you're going to pay anyone nearly $30 million a year, giving it to A-Rod, the best player in the game, is probably the right way to go.

Not one single baseball player is worth 30 million per year. And this was under the best risk section. Honestly is hitting .290 40 hrs 120 rbi's or so worth 30 million per year? This is why most people dont like baseball. The prices are ridiculous.

[endaround]

Yes it is worth that. ARod makes money for the Yankees.

[TooLiveBrew]

he makes a lot of money for NYY.

 

I don't totally disagree with the Gagne deal because it was a one year deal, but $10 million is a lot of money for someone who struggled so badly last year.

 

If by "last year," you mean "in his 18 2/3 IP in Boston," then you're correct. The notion that Gagne struggled last year is beyond me. He struggled once he got to Boston, sure - in a role he's admitted being uncomfortable with for the first time in years (set-up man).

 

Even with his WOAHs in Boston, Gagne still threw 52+ really effective IP in 2007. This article is typical 'national sportswriter trying to talk about unfamiliar teams/topics' crap.

[Ennder]

To be fair Gagne will probably need to be babied and that is why he isn't worth $10M. Last season he was pitching pretty well and then they upped his usage in July, he got a tired arm and had to sit for a bit and then they traded him to Boston where he flamed out. I think Gagne can be effective but you are going to have to treat him like Matt Wise (probably why we got rid of Wise). Only pitch him back to back days if the 1st day was a clean inning, don't pitch him 3 days in a row, if he has a rough PC inning rest him the next day. Not what you want for that kind of money but I think that is what they need to do.

 

If they treat him like Cordero I think he'll flame out before the season is over.

 

I'm ok with the deal since it is 1 year and I don't think it is close to the worst of the offseason, but I doubt it is a good value deal either.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's overpaying, to be sure... but it gets you only a 1-year commitment.

 

I think Gagne can be effective but you are going to have to treat him like Matt Wise (probably why we got rid of Wise). Only pitch him back to back days if the 1st day was a clean inning, don't pitch him 3 days in a row, if he has a rough PC inning rest him the next day. Not what you want for that kind of money but I think that is what they need to do.

Ok, crap - here's hoping Simmons can help certain coaches understand things like this. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

I didn't realize about him being overworked last year, thanks.

[Ennder]

Yeah if you look at his game logs he rarely pitched back to back days last season until mid June when they ramped him up some. Then late in July they really abused him one week for some reason, 25 pitches on July 21st, 25 on July 23rd, 17 on 1st game of July 24th, 12 on second game of July 24th and then he was shut down for a few days with arm fatigue and then traded.

 

That is coming off of back to back injury years though so it isn't a huge surprise. This year he got to work out in the offseason and just worry about getting stronger instead of healthier which should help. His arm strength should be up just from pitching last season as well. So hopefully Yost doesn't abuse him but even if he does hopefully Gagne's arm strength is to the point where he can handle it better than last year.

[brewerjamie15]

I'm not so pumped on the large coin spent on Gagne, but if he works out, I'll totally forget about my dissatisfaction. I'm pretty pleased that the middle bullpen was what I consider upgraded as well.

All in all, I believe that Melvin did some nice things and recovered nicely from losing Cordero.

Overall, if the LF situation were settled I'd be more satisfied but as it's been said in previous thoughts, that there is still time for some upgrades and as the days wear on and pitching is more sought after, Melvin will have some more power IMHO.

[joshjs]

The article referenced here sounds like something I'd have written for my college newspaper when I'd been spending more drinking and playing video games then doing real work. Donovan is taking the most obvious, thoughtless stances on every given issue.

 

My only complaint about the offseason so far is that we lost Matt Wise. And I attribute that to the acquisition of Mota. But even getting Mota, at the time, felt like a decent gamble. It's just that we got Riske, Torres and Gagne after that, so Wise was expendable. But now I'd rather have Wise than Mota.

 

Regardless, the bullpen as a whole should be better in 2008, and with the offense this team can produce, having an unremarkable but stable rotation and bullpen should keep the team in contention, which is all I ask.

 

And yes, it's disappointing we didn't fill our LF hole, but I just assume that if there was a deal to be done, it'd be done. Melvin has said that he's not going to open up a new hole to fill LF/3B, and to me it sounds like the only real options he's come across would've done that.

 

As far as Kendall is concerned, I'm cautiously optimistic, and I don't think he'll be much of a step down from first-pitch Johnny.

[bucks2281]

A long time ago, I wanted to become a sportswriter. Then, I started to read articles like John Donovan's. Please. First of all, it's January 3. We have a while to go in the off season, and I suspect something will be done with Claudio Vargas (I hope) before long. Time will tell how good our off-season has been.

 

It seems like trashy sportswriters follow the same formula when evaluating the Hot Stove season:

-If they overpaid for marginal talent, they had a crappy off-season. That's seemingly the only thing we hear.

 

Drivel like this article is tarnishing this profession. I don't know if it's a lack of writing ability, research, or laziness, but I'm getting sick of reading analysis like Donovan's.