Nick Swisher to CHW, Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney to OAK

[Ennder]

BP mostly agrees with that though they seem a little higher on them. An above average lefty says more #3 to me, would be #4 as a RHP like Inman.

 

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6912

 

1. Fautino de los Santos, RHP

 

Built like a tree trunk, de los Santos gets tremendous drive. His fastball sits at 91-95 mph, touching 98 at times; it also has late movement, and he commands it very well. His breaking pitch is a power curve with hard late bite, and it's a true out pitch when he's on.

 

Perfect World Projection: Star-level starter or closer.

 

 

2. Gio Gonzalez, LHP

 

Gonzalez has average velocity (89-91 mph) on his fastball, but he can reach back and touch 93 at times, and it features natural lefty movement, almost looking more like a cutter on occasion. He uses it effectively to get ahead in the count and set up his curveball, which is among the best in the minors. It's a hard-breaking power pitch that comes in fast, then falls off the table. His changeup is improving, and his control made significant strides from the previous season

 

Perfect World Projection: An above-average left-handed starter

[DrWood]

parra is better than anyone the A's got.

add in two of jeffress, villanueva, and gwynn, and A's would come out ahead.

 

oh well.

[Gopher74]

parra is better than anyone the A's got.

add in two of jeffress, villanueva, and gwynn, and A's would come out ahead.

 

oh well.

My thoughts exactly. It seems as though sometimes we try so hard to not overvalue our own prospects that we actually devalue them. Parra was an elite prospect before his shoulder issues. I don't know that in and of itself should forever label him injury prone. He seems to be bouncing back just fine and absolutely dominated at the top two levels last year, something the other two haven't shown they can do, and his stuff is just better than either players.

 

Basically both of our pitchers pure stuff would be better than either pitcher the A's got. The question is with health and makeup.

 

I know that I certainly wouldn't have wanted to give up Parra and Villanueva for Swisher, and certainly not Parra, Villanueva, and Jeffress however.

 

[endaround]

If it was only one injury for Parra that would be one thing. But Parra had problems in 2004 and 2006 and left 2007 on the DL.

[logan82]

If it was only one injury for Parra that would be one thing. But Parra had problems in 2004 and 2006 and left 2007 on the DL.

The 2007 injury doesn't worry me to much. Broken thumb I believe. He had lots of time to rehab it while playing Halo 3 this offseason.

[pogokat]

parra's never thrown more than 140 innings..and he's 25...he's got good stuff, but he's not a top prospect like those guys because he's got 0 durability and he's out of options

[Robideaux]

For what it's worth, Sickels grades them like this...I know it not gospel truth what he says, but it's a third party source that puts parra's value roughly on par with gonzalez or de los santos.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/

 

Gio Gonzalez, LHP, Grade B+ (ranks second on Oakland list)

Fautino De Los Santos, RHP, Grade B+ (ranks third on Oakland list)

Ryan Sweeney, OF, Grade C+ (I don't think his power is going to develop. Ranks 12th on Oakland list)

 

Manny Parra, LHP, Grade B+ (a really good prospect who needs more attention)

Jeremy Jeffress, RHP, Grade B (assumes he stops smoking dope)

 

I don't see why you couldn't include a Gillespie (C+) or Gamel (B) or Green (B-) to make up a comparable package. I'm don't know if it was up to me if I'd gut my farm system of high end arms, but I do love Swisher's offensive game.

[Big Reed]

I have to believe jeffress' off the field problems have plummeted his trade value. With all the drug testing currently being done in MLB, I know as a GM I wouldn't want him for fear he'd test positive again, and then be suspended for an entire year.

 

i would rate Sweeney as a better outfield prospect over gwynn. i'd rate parra as a better pitching prospect over Santos and Gonzalez. If jeffress didn't have his smoking problems, I'd give him the edge over Santos. because jeffress tested positive twice in one year, i would believe he would have to remain clean for at least a year before any team inquires about him or would even accept him as part of a trade package. one positive test is bad, but two in the same year is a headache other teams just don't want.

[TooLiveBrew]

The 2007 injury doesn't worry me to much. Broken thumb I believe. He had lots of time to rehab it while playing Halo 3 this offseason.

He split his thumbnail & hurt (broke?) his thumb on a really bad bunt attempt last year. They had to shut him down since it was so near the end of the season, not as much the severity of the injury, iirc.

[Gopher74]

I have to believe jeffress' off the field problems have plummeted his trade value. With all the drug testing currently being done in MLB, I know as a GM I wouldn't want him for fear he'd test positive again, and then be suspended for an entire year.

 

i would rate Sweeney as a better outfield prospect over gwynn. i'd rate parra as a better pitching prospect over Santos and Gonzalez. If jeffress didn't have his smoking problems, I'd give him the edge over Santos. because jeffress tested positive twice in one year, i would believe he would have to remain clean for at least a year before any team inquires about him or would even accept him as part of a trade package. one positive test is bad, but two in the same year is a headache other teams just don't want.

Yea, I agree on both ends....for the most part. I still think that Jeffress has more value than you give him credit for, but clearly not what he'd have if he didn't light up at all this year. It's a shame to, because if nothing else, he'd be a helluva trading chip right now if he was clean.

 

But Gio Gonzalez is on his third team now in two years, and Santos while being very good is still very young. I certainly don't see this trade being comparable to the "Parra, Jeffress, LaPorta" deal or the "Gallardo, Jeffress, Mid Level" deal that Ender suggested. In fact, I think each of those deals are much, much better than what the A's got.

 

I honestly think the A's would be inclined to make a Swisher for Gallardo deal straight up much less a prospect like Jeffress, problems aside, and another prospect.

 

And like I said, when does Parra's value come back up? A broken thumb is a fluke, and shouldn't be included in the injury concerns, as I don't think anyone would seriously be concerned about it moving forward, and that is the point isn't it? What you can reasonably expect of him in the future? Well catching your thumb on a bunt would seem to classify as a fluke occurrence to me.

 

Anyway, we didn't get him, so as nice as it'd be, it's not really practical to go out and give up what it'd take to get a guy like him when we've got LaPorta likely ready next year, a guy who projects to be a very similar hitter. Of course his defense likely won't be as good, but is that worth this type of package?

 

[danzig6767]

I think Williams is taking to much heat for this move

 

It's true the White Sox likely won't be able to make the playoffs this year, but it's not like Swisher is some aging vet on the last year of his contract and looking to get rich one last time or the Sox lose him after this year. Swisher is still a pretty young guy that's a few years from free agency, he very well could end up being a long term fixture for the White Sox franchise. If Nick was say 32-33 and making big money, then i'd be in the camp that the move makes no sense.

 

Swisher is fairly young and still cheap though, we can't judge the trade based just on what Swisher helps the White Sox do this season only. Maybe in 2-3 years from now, Swisher ends up being a key part of a Sox team that is back in the playoffs. Anytime a GM trades for a productive big league player that is still younger and years from free agency, that GM has to give up more than for a guy a year from free agency or a guy already making big cash.

[ILuvDaBush]

Would this make Jermaine Dye available? I know he doesn't fit the prototype of what we were looking for this offseason (lefty LF) but he has a good OBP and would be an ideal hitter behind our big boppers. He started out poorly last year but turned it on once the Pale Hose were eliminated from contention. Good times. Just curious. It just seems like one of their DH/1B/Corner outfielders could be moved.

[Ennder]

Parra is 25 and hasn't been healthy a full season in a long time, he is no better of a prospect than Santos.

 

I certainly don't see this trade being comparable to the "Parra, Jeffress, LaPorta" deal or the "Gallardo, Jeffress, Mid Level" deal that Ender suggested

 

I didn't suggest we do that deal, I said if they were dead set on getting two pitching prospects thats the kind of deal it would take. Oakland doesn't really have a need at other levels. We have two pitchers who rank as high as those guys in Parra and Gallardo. I doubt Villanueva is thought of as highly as those guys and I'm almost positive the drug problems has Jeffress valued less.

 

Jeffress was considered a B prospect even before the drugs because of his control problems. Parra was a C+ prospect as recently as 2007 because of the injuries and even back in 2005 was only a B. This is why I generally look to other sites because they are giving a less biased opinion of players than I could possibly give. Regardless of what Brewer fans think of these guys other places do not think of Parra as an elite prospect.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

I would be more interested in who the white sox would be willing to part with for a starter now.

 

Carlos Quentin?

 

Now their outfield looks like what?

 

RF Dye

CF Quentin

LF Swisher

 

others:

Jerry Owens

Brian Anderson

 

Add Crede into the mix and you start to get some interesting possibilites for the Brewers for say Capuano+

[JohnBriggs12]

Parra is 3 1/2 years removed from his injury (I don't count finger broken while bunting), has had success in AAA, and made some impact in a few major league appearances. He's no more of a risk than a guy who's never pitched above AA.

 

That being said Gonzalez led all minor leagues in strikeouts (185) last year and he's only 22. Those guys don't grow on trees.

 

De Los Santos though is the guy I don't think the Brewers could have matched even with Jeffress. His numbers between low A and high A last year were ridiculous. He allowed just 69 hits in 122 innings and had a 3.55 to 1 K/BB ratio. That's impressive.

 

This deal has the potential to really look bad for White Sox. Swisher's a nice player and he makes the Sox a little better in 2008, but he's not getting the White Sox past Detroit or Cleveland.

 

Beane certainly maximized his return. Even Sweeney is a sleeper.

[rotoherb]

Parra is older that Gio and the injuries are a real concern, but he throws harder, has better control, and has had success at a higher level. I'm pretty convinced that Parra has a higher ceiling but is more of a risk. I kind of think they come out even if you take the whole package together, but as a comparison it doesn't work out very well because they each have different strengths/weaknesses. Considering that Parra is better suited to help out right away this season, he would be more valuable to the Brewers than a Gio Gonzalez. I can see why the A's would favor a lower level guy since they are rebuilding.

 

I think the comparison between Fautino and Jeffress is a really good one, skills wise. Both throw very hard, both are raw and need to work on their secondary pitches, both haven't pitched above A ball and I've seen both mentioned as possible closers if they don't develop offspeed stuff. Jeffress obviously gets downgraded for toking the weed, but on pitching ability alone, I think they are very close.

[Tbadder]

As a closer I'd rate Jeffress higher! Non-weed users are strictly starting pitchers.