Nick Swisher to CHW, Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney to OAK

[Brian the Automator]

I do agree. However, isn't he less risk than Rolen?

The money's about the same (a little less for Chavez), although I doubt the A's would do anything to help with the salary.

 

[Milltownhooker]

Beane would rather get Chavez healthy & increase his trading value. Blanton or Ellis will likely be the next to go.

[Brian the Automator]

Chavez also has Milwaukee on his no-trade list.

[colbyjack]

The White Sox gave up some good talent, but they also got a good player in return, as Robert mentioned. Although they now seem to be loaded in the OF corners with Carlos Quentin and Jermaine Dye, unless the White Sox intend to try Swisher in either CF or at 1B (if they deal Konerko as someone else mentioned).

 

If the A's are having a fire sale, the player I would target the most is Huston Street. The guy has been nearly untouchable in his first three years in the big-leagues. Yes, I realize Gagne was given a big deal to close, but he's a one-year solution, long a potential long-term fix like Street.

[Getpaddled]

Brian where did you find out that Milwaukee is on Chavez no trade list?

[And That]

Does Ellis have the skill set to play third base? I've only seen him play a handful of times. I know he played a lot of SS in the minors, so I assume his arm would be adequate at the hot corner. If he could play third, he'd be an interesting option for a year.

[And That]

Brian where did you find out that Milwaukee is on Chavez no trade list?

This site is awesome.

 

[Gopher74]

Chavez also has Milwaukee on his no-trade list.

A team that he put on 3 years ago when he signed his deal. It's entirely possible that he'd waive that for the 2008 version of the Milwaukee Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

I do agree. However, isn't he less risk than Rolen?

 

Actually, at this point, I think Chavez is the bigger injury risk. If anything, they're equal.

 

AT, I like the idea of Ellis. He's a phenomenal defender, and carries good OBP. I'm all for that move, but who knows if just Bush or Cappy would get that finished.

[Big Reed]

I would have to agree with Golpher on this issue. I know he'd never expect me to say that. but it's true. A lot of players in the past with no trade clauses have waived them for a little extra cash in their pocket. this year's brewers team is not your father's Nash Rambler. Times have changed for the better. Although, I think Milwaukee had a world series champion when the Nash Ramblers were being made. Would hamerin' hank have driven a Nash rambler or did he lean more to the Ford Edsel? Looking back , the Edsel was really a great car- it just had a bad name. and to think Ford's son actually went to grade school and lived his life with that name. it's better than Moonbeam , I guess, but not much better. But to the point.

 

I believe Chavez would be willing to waive his no trade me to the brewers clause if he was enticed enough. i think a contract extension and some smooth talking by the owner and GM could get him to change his mind. After all, Milwaukee county has some very good schools, and the zoo in Milwaukee is a lot safer than the one in San Francisco. We don't let our tigers loose during the daytime here. They only come out at night. What's not to like?

[twobrewers]

I think prospects are being overvalued a little this offseason.

 

I think Swisher is a better player than the prospects he received. (However, the A's are holding a fire sale and had to take the best offer) But as with the Haren deal - I am surprised the A's aren't getting more in return.

 

Both players were very good - with great long term contracts.

 

I would have given up the Brewer's entire farm system for Haren. (Swisher doesn't really fit a need for me - as I want a 3B not a LF)

[DrWood]

swisher could easily hit 35 HR and have an OBP over .400 with the move to chicago.

[Ennder]

I like Nick Swisher but it wouldn't shock me if Carlos Gonzalez (from the Haren trade) was just as good as him in a couple years and Gio Gonzalez (from the white sox trade) is just as good as Haren in a couple of years. That doesn't include all the other players they got. Oakland obviously decided that not only could they not contend this season, they probably couldn't next either so are playing for 2010. I think they have done a pretty good job so far.

 

John Sickels: I had Gonzalez as my number one White Sox prospect, and De Los Santos as number two, both Grade B+, both among the best pitching prospects in baseball.

 

To give you an idea of how well thought of those guys are.

[I Heart Brewers]

Chavez also has Milwaukee on his no-trade list.

 

If he's more interested in winning than rebuilding I would think he would wave that. That was probably put in there when the Brewers were struggling to win 60 games. What do I know though. There may be other reasons he has a no trade clause to MKE.

 

I really want Melvin to pickup an accomplished 3rd baseman and I think Chavez would be a better fit than Rolen. He's younger, relatively less injury prone, slightly cheaper - although the Cards may be more inclined to pay some of Rolen's salary if traded to the Brewers I would imagine.

[brettac1]

I have to say as an A's fan that I'm sorta stunned by this move. Swish was born to wear the white shoes.

 

However, they got way too good of an offer to turn down.

[homer]

I can't wait to see Swisher out at the clubs with his girlfriends.

[crewcrazy]

I liked the Haren trade for Oakland because I think Haren tends to get a little overrated (I'm not a fan of his high HR rate, and moving to Arizona won't exactly help that, although there are more pitcher-friendly parks in the NL West and the NL in general), and I like this trade for Oakland as well. I just wasn't expecting this trade, since you would think that Swish is the kind of guy Beane would want to keep while he's rebuilding -- he's definitely a very good player with an excellent contract, but it looks like the White Sox just bowled him over with their offer if Gonzalez and De Los Santos are rated that highly. I know a lot of people thought highly of Gonzalez (didn't they get him from Philly in the Freddy Garcia trade?), but I don't know a lot about De Los Santos.

 

Oakland's going to have a pretty good (and cheap) team in a few years, though...I guess Beane knows that he doesn't have a prayer of catching the Angels this year and is deciding to stockpile young talent. This year probably won't be pretty, but it'll be worth it in a couple years. Heck, they still might be better than the Rangers.

[brettac1]

I know a lot of people thought highly of Gonzalez (didn't they get him from Philly in the Freddy Garcia trade?), but I don't know a lot about De Los Santos.

 

Gonzelez was in the Thome deal, which makes it even more of a rip-off. Kenny Williams is capable of some great moves every one in a while.

[monty57]

Oh, man. It seems as if every transaction this Winter has turned into a "why couldn't the Brewers have pulled the plug on this deal?" thread.

 

I guess that means that Kendall and Gagne aren't cutting it as far as improving the Crew among the fanbase, huh? C'mon, Doug, where's our shiny new gift?

 

Sorry to hit a sore spot. Most of the deals this offseason I haven't cared too much about. However, when the Brewers have shouted from the rooftop that they're looking for a high-OBP LF that hits lefty, I would think they'd try to get in on a switch hitting LF with a .381 OBP. If it meant beating a deal that was the equivalent of Parra, Jeffress and Gwynn, that may be too much future for the Brewers to give up, but I would've been tempted to pull the trigger. Gwynn is almost valueless to the team at this point, Jeffress may have needed "help" to light up the radar gun like he did, so the main key is Parra. Parra will be a good player, but he does have injury issues, and Swisher is already an All Star. Plus, we have a lot of pre-arby / arby pitchers on the roster. I really wouldn't see a reason not to do this deal unless Melvin believed that we wouldn't be able to afford the arbitration raises everyone would be getting over the next few years. Maybe I'm underestimating Parra and Jeffress, but Swisher is exactly the player we're looking for.

 

The fact that this is the A's who are giving up on the next couple seasons by trading away Haren and Swisher is almost ironic. We value our prospects very highly on this site, and much of that probably comes from the run the A's had building from within. They had a lot of things go right to have that run, such as Zito, Mulder and Hudson never getting hurt or having a down year for six years. Now a couple of things have gone wrong and they have to sell off their best players to try to get to the playoffs again in a few years. I have no idea how the talks went down in this trade, but if we had a chance to pick up the biggest piece we currently need to be a World Series caliber team at the expense of some of our top prospects, it'd be hard to turn down. It's likely that Melvin called and Beane wanted some combo of Hart, Braun, Weeks, Yo, Villy, Fielder (although that would be the height of irony), etc and Melvin passed, but we may have been able to become one of the top two or three teams in the NL for the next few years by trading Gwynn, Jeffress and Parra. In three years, we will likely have to start selling or losing players in much the same way the A's have been since Giambi left. In five or six years, none of Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Braun, Yo, Hall or Villy may even be on this team. Eventually, without unlimited pocket books, there will be a mistake when trading a proven vet for prospects or while making a draft pick, which will lead to tearing down and rebuilding. Therefore, if you get a chance to greatly improve, shouldn't we try to become the best team we can be for the next few years?

 

As far as Gagne and Kendall, I like their signings, although we still are even at best at the closer and catcher spots from last season, so no, that probably isn't "cutting it." Something else needs to be done to fill the 3b/LF hole, and I believe that Swisher would go a lot farther towards getting us in the playoffs than Gagne or Kendall. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope Gagne is his old pre-injury self and Kendall has a .400 OBP, but they have significantly more risk than Swisher.

[Ennder]

deal that was the equivalent of Parra, Jeffress and Gwynn

 

negative. Parra is behind both of these guys as far as prospects goes, Jeffress is even farther behind.

 

It would be more like Parra, Jeffress and LaPorta if we wanted a deal for him. But Oakland wouldn't want LaPorta since 1B and OF are not a long term need for them so most likely if we really wanted Swisher it would be something like Gallardo, Jeffress and a mid level prospect.

[Gopher74]

negative. Parra is behind both of these guys as far as prospects goes, Jeffress is even farther behind.

 

It would be more like Parra, Jeffress and LaPorta if we wanted a deal for him. But Oakland wouldn't want LaPorta since 1B and OF are not a long term need for them so most likely if we really wanted Swisher it would be something like Gallardo, Jeffress and a mid level prospect.

How so? Because a ranking that's already comes out says so? The only reason Parra would be behind either guy is durability concerns, and Jeffress has better stuff than either(though his makeup would place him behind him). But suggesting the deal they got would be equal to Parra, Jeffress, and LaPorta is ridiculous IMO, and then suggesting that it'd be Gallardo, Jeffress and a mid level is even worse.

 

Honestly, I like Swisher, and he's a very, very nice player, but you'd think he was the second coming of Barry, or Ted Williams on here. A good OBP, good power that should improve out of Oakland, but he's not this superstar player that everyone seems to think he is.

[endaround]

Yeah while I'd love Swisher as a Brewer I just really don't see a matchup with the As there.

[Ennder]

Why is it rediculous, Parra is 25 years old now and has a long injury history, he is not as strong a prospect as either of those guys. LaPorta's defensive concerns drop him to the same level as them. That means we need to flesh the deal out with someone better than Sweeney which is Jeffress whose stock is down because of the drug bust.

 

The reason you look at outside rankings is because otherwise you always overrate your own prospects. It is stretching things to assume that Parra, Jeffress and Gwynn is a deal they woud take. Parra is a injury prone version of one guy they got, Jeffress a drug suspension version of another and Gwynn a lesser prospect than the 3rd.

[twobrewers]

Keith Law on ESPN.com chimed in today during his chat about the prospects involved in the trade.

 

He believes Gio projects as a #4 or #5 starter. Law mentions that he puts up good minor league numbers - but the pitches just aren't there. He is getting by right now on control and using his curve ball too often. (Which isn't going to work in MLB) Actually, he compares him to Inman, saying his numbers are better than the projections. (He then says you can never be too sure with a SD pitcher since they thrive on control)

 

De Los Santos is a better prospect. However, Law mentions that he really only has two pitches at this point - and needs to develop a 3rd pitch to become a solid starting pitcher. Otherwise he might end up in the bullpen.

 

Lastly, Law had this to say about the Brewers excess pitching...

Keith Law: Capuano was 83-86 at the end of the season; that's not going to work and it may mean he's hurt. Parra is the best long-term property of your list. Bush is the most predictable, not likely to be more than a 4/5 unless he has a very lucky year with balls in play. Vargas is a swingman to me.

[rotoherb]

I think Parra is quite a bit better than Gonzalez. The Brewers don't really have any comparable pitchers to Gonzalez. Inman probably would have been a decent comp if he was still around. I really wouldn't have cared for this trade from a Brewers perspective. Swisher is a very good player, but I'd much rather find a third baseman and move Braun to the outfield. Trading for Swisher and leaving Braun at third base is a little better than having a Jenkins/Mench platoon with Braun at third, but not much. Of course, right now they have no left fielder so getting Swisher would improve the team as it is right now. I just want them to improve over last season, and in my opinion that means getting a third baseman and moving Braun to left.