You're hired as GM for.....

[NievesNoNO]

Which last place team to you want the GM job for, and why? What are you first moves? Do you want a new manager, sign a free agent, trade, etc. Here are your choices: San Francisco, Pittsburge, Forida, Texas, Tampa, or KC.

Talentwise I'd lean towards Tampa, but their fan base seems weak (maybe that's because they've always been bad though). So I'll take the Giants job. They have a solid fan base and newer ball park. Thier pair of young stud pichters with Zito and Lowery make for a nice staff. However, they're not going anywhere with their old and pricey offense. So my first move is to get what I can for most of their aging position playeres at the trade deadline. I'll listen to trade offers for Matt Cain in the off season trying to get some stud hitting prospects in return. Then piece together something that resembles a major league line-up, mostly through free-agency. Easier said than done I suppose. Finally I'll beg to keep my job for a couple more years as I've completely lost the faith of the fans and traded our best pitcher.

[davego]

Just at first blush I'd say Pittsburgh because they are in the NL (away from NYY, BOS and that LA of A), have a new park and the NL Central, while solid, is more 'winnable' then many of the divisions. Expectations are seriously low (I like low expectations). Much as Milwaukee was labeled the 'land of opportunity when DM and Ned rolled into town, similar could be proposed by a new administration. While I am not an expert on the Pitt farm system, their 40-man does seem to have a few chips that could be moved for ML talent we could control longer (Capps, Bay, LaRoche...just brainstorming).

 

Getting a FA or three that we could then flip into 1st round or sandwich picks should be easy to do.

 

This would be a 4-5 year deal and I'm sure I'd be fired in year 3, but would be fun.

[Ennder]

Zito last year wasn't a fluke and Lowry had as many BB's as K's. The Giants have 2 good pitchers and just nothing. Rowand and Zito are average players taking up huge chunks of payroll for a long time and they have almost nothing in the minors so I don't think they can turn it around anytime soon. Sabean has to be the worst GM in baseball so you would be an improvement!

 

TB and KC both are in good shape now but are in divisions they probably cannot hope to compete in. I might take a shot at Pitt since they have a nice young rotation and are in a weak division.

[bjkrautk]

The problem with either of the florida teams is that you don't know that you'll end up on even financial terms with the other teams in their divisions. (In truth, you know you won't be able to spend as much as the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, etc....I was just being polite.)

 

San Fran is the best of the last-place candidates, since they're not that far removed from being good, plus they have the new ballpark and all the necessary revenue streams in place. My first policy (not an actual move) would just be to stop giving up first round draft picks for position players on the wrong side of 30. Cut ties with Bonds, and go bargain-bin shopping for free agents (in order to field ML talent at all the positions, even if that means guys like Brad Wilkerson and Marcus Giles). Even players in the .750-.780 OPS range would improve the offense; look at fallen prospects in hopes of finding the next Brandon Phillips. They need to get legacy players like Ray Durham and Rich Aurilia off of the lineup card (Vizquel is just as old and bad offensively, but you can live with the defense at shortshop for the time being).

Draft college position players early and often.

 

The pitching rotation looks remarkably solid for a last-place team: Zito, Cain, Lincecum, and Lowry are all legitimate starters. The back of the bullpen is a long-term concern...but you have to have a lead in games before you can get saves. Just being less-than-atrocious on offense would make this team so much better.

[NievesNoNO]

Pittsburge would also be a decent opportunity. They do have some nice young pitching and nice bargining chips on offense(if needed). On a side note I love thier ball park. If someone could get that team going again I think the fans would pack that park, much like what is happening for the Brewers now.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wish I knew the minor-league systems better. That's the first thing I'd use to rank. However, my first pick in terms of market is (obviously) San Fran. They have some nice young talent that just hit the MLB level, and are fools for thinking that trading Lincecum is really a good idea right now (imo). Their ballpark is great, as bj noted, and SF is a very affluent city.

 

Pitt. looks to have the requisite pitching for which you'd hope, but I really think KC is in better shape with each passing year - if they get some young SP to hit MLB in the next 2-3 years, they could be very well-positioned in the AL Central. Unfortunately, their market is very similar to Milwaukee. The 'market' factor is the big one to me (since I don't know minor league systems well enough), because it sucks to know that you can't retain quality players once they hit FA, so I'll go with SF - and hope that they'd give me some time to blow things up and start over... like KC & Pitt. have given their GMs.

[xisxisxis]

Here are your choices: San Francisco, Pittsburge, Forida, Texas, Tampa, or KC.

 

Poor Markets: Pittsburgh, Tampa, KC, (Florida - mostly due to being dicked around in the past by ownership)

Poor Stadiums: KC, Tampa, Florida

Poor Ownership: Texas, Florida

 

Choice: San Francisco Giants

 

There minor league system is weak, but can be turned around. Roster is aging and concentrated in a few players. I would look to unload Zito after his next great half season when a big market team has pitching needs. Ownership has money to spend and high revenues from market and stadium. I'd concentrate on pitching and defense to take advantage of home stadium and the majority of the other division teams home stadiums.

 

Sabean has to be the worst GM in baseball so you would be an improvement!

 

 GM Win%
Sabean .558 (3 div titles, 1 WC, 1 World series appearance)
Melvin TX .508 (3 div titles)
Melvin Tot .489 

 

Granted he's decimated the Giants minor league system, however, all he's really done is win at the big league level, get the team to the World Series, and make money for the ownership by filling their park. Yeah I guess that makes him a crappy GM. I wish we had a crappy GM.

[SmartBall]

I agree, the choice has to be the Giants. The players aren't in place, but the rest of the foundation is already there. That and I would rather live in San Fran then Pitt, KC, or Tampa. Like everyone else said, the key is to turn over the aging vets for young talent even if it means a few years of subpar records. The scouting staff would have to be retooled to focus on stocking the minor-league system and aquiring fizzled stars from other organizations. With the pieces they have in place, I really think the Giants could be a factor sooner rather than later.

[Ennder]

Granted he's decimated the Giants minor league system, however, all he's really done is win at the big league level, get the team to the World Series, and make money for the ownership by filling their park. Yeah I guess that makes him a crappy GM. I wish we had a crappy GM.

 

Oh please, Sabean won games on the back of Barry Bonds and then decimated the team. I can't believe you are honestly going to use record as your method for judging a GM. He now runs a large market team with a losing record and no minor league system to speak of. The guy has made some of the worst trades and signings in baseball history.

[dadofandrew]

TB has never won anything, and has a decent minor league system.

 

PIT looks to be on the right track.

[danzig6767]

TB has never won anything, and has a decent minor league system.

 

PIT looks to be on the right track.

The problem for Tampa Bay is they not only have a bad park and little fan base, they play in a division with two teams that print their own money. Trying to get past both the Yankees and Red Sox for a division title will take a very large number of wins in most seasons. It's gotta be a real drag being a fan of any of the AL East teams besides the Yankees/Red Sox.

[xisxisxis]

Oh please, Sabean won games on the back of Barry Bonds and then decimated the team.

 

That's a silly argument. Success of baseball teams isn't based on 1 player as was clearly shown by the Texas Rangers with Alex Rodriguez. His OPS of >1.000 wasn't enough to boost that team to anything but a 0.445 winning percentage the 3 years he was there. Surrounding an elite player with the right combination of players on a semi-limited budget is tougher than you acknowledge. The Giants never spent like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and some other large market teams, they have a stadium they paid for completely and need to repay, yet they fielded a competitive team for over 8 years. That isn't simply riding any 1 player.

 

 

I can't believe you are honestly going to use record as your method for judging a GM.

 

Record is one part of the package at evaluating a GM. I break the bottom line categories into winning %, playoff/world series appearances, and making money/staying on budget. I add style points for managing and building a minor league system. That minor league system can either be used to feed the big league team directly or as trade material for players. Ignoring the value of trading prospects for pieces that actually help the major league team is myopic. I think it's great if your GM can win at the major league level and feed the farm system at the same time and is one reason I think John Schuerholz was one of the best ever. Obviously Brian Sabean hasn't done that well, but he's succeeded at keeping the Giants competitive for 8 years and given that the success cycle is usually 6-7 years that is right in line with what can be expected. He's hardly one of the worst GM's in the business. He doesn't have a limited budget and he doesn't talk OPS and other sabermetric babble so he won't get much respect here, but ignoring his accomplishments because he doesn't do it the "right" way is as close to elitist as you can get. I'm not in love with his approach, I wouldn't hire him if I was an owner, but I acknowledge that he's had success as a GM. It will be interesting to see if he can turn the Giants around given his preferred approach.

[Ennder]

Bonds was worth 10-15 wins over replacement level in his prime. To put that in perspective Fielder was worth 7 wins last year ignoring defense. Bonds was a better fielder than Fielder but even ignoring that and just looking at offense he was wroth 3-8 more wins than Fielder. Replace Fielder with Bonds in his prime and we are as high as a 91 win team last season. Yes you can build a winning team around one player.

 

Sabean has destroyed that team, he gave him a few good years when Bonds was in his prime but even then he did it while destroying the teams future. When Bonds started to decline he continued to make bad moves that has turned this into a 90 loss team, with no minor league system and two big contracts that will make it hard to turn it around with FA's even with the cash they have. Sabean is a bad GM.

[LouisEly]

Sabean is a decent GM who has made some really good moves (Bonds, so far Lincecum) and some really bad moves (so far Zito, poor drafting and signing free agents who cost them draft picks). You always have to wonder in situations like those how much of those moves are being controlled by the owner and by Bonds. But SF would be a good job because they have a decent payroll to work with, as well as a good young pitching staff. They have Zito, Lincecum, Cain, and Lowry (say what you want about his peripherals, but if he is your #4 starter you are in good shape); Correia, Hennessey, and Brian Wilson are all solid in the pen, and all seven of those guys are in their 20's. Find a buyer for Dave Roberts, do whatever I could to get rid of Aurilia & Durham's salary, and with Bonds departure that leaves $30M/year in salary to spend on free agents. And I might place a call to Melvin to see what it would take to grab some of his advanced mid-level position prospects (Nelson, Heether, Katin) who are blocked but could provide some offensive help.

 

But the problem with the Giants is their division - they have Colorado, Arizona, San Diego, and Los Angeles. Outside of the AL East, probably the toughest division in baseball. So I think the Texas job might be the better job because your competition is the Angels (who always find a way to stumble), the A's (who never have they payroll to keep their stars), and the Mariners (who never find the right players to give big contracts to). It would be a bigger rebuild, but you have the position players in Young at SS, Blalock at 3B, Broussard/Shelton at 1B, Kinsler at 2B, and Saltalamacchia at C, plus Milton Bradley, Marlon Byrd, and Hamilton in the OF. And you know the owner is willing to spend on free agents.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"He's hardly one of the worst GM's in the business. He doesn't have a limited budget and he doesn't talk OPS and other sabermetric babble so he won't get much respect here, but ignoring his accomplishments because he doesn't do it the "right" way is as close to elitist as you can get. "

 

Nicely played, Dave.

 

I just wish I could be around as often as I'd like, to have your back on this thread, and the Capuano/ERA-is-worthless thread.

 

I agree that Sabean isn't among the better GMs in the bidniss, but the team has been usually competitive, they've generally enjoyed a nice winning percentage, they've won a pennant in 4 playoff appearances, and he has assembled some terrific young arms for the MLB rotation. That's not decimiating the team. Not by a longshot.

 

If I were to rank the worst GMs in the game, offhand without an inordinate amount of time researching, I'd call either Bill Bavasi or Ned Colletti the worst. Their teams aren't big winners, their farm systems/recent drafts nothing special, and they continue to be tricked into ridiculously expensive contracts for suspect players (Adrian Beltre, Andruw Jones, Jared Washburn, Rafael Furcal, Jeff Weaver, Juan Pierre), most of whom are Scott Boras clients whose birth certificates and "walk year" stats can't be taken at face value.

[homer]

"I can't believe you are honestly going to use record as your method for judging a GM"

 

Isn't record sort of the whole point?

[Ennder]

"I can't believe you are honestly going to use record as your method for judging a GM"

 

Isn't record sort of the whole point?

 

So you really think we can just list GM's by lifetime record and that will be best to worst? You really think that the GM for the yankees should be judged the same way as the GM for the pirates? Replace Bonds with someone like Thome who had a great career and the Giants lose 8-9 more games per season and aren't looking so rosey anymore, in fact replace Bonds with Thome and the Giants most likely have a losing record under Sabean.

 

Lets see what he does with the team now that Bonds is gone, my guess is a lot of losing and eventually his termination.

[logan82]

I think I would go with San Francisco. They have the resources to pay for a few good players until the minor league teams can develope the tallent that gets drafted. I think it takes around 5 years to start from scratch with drafting before you can be competative. I doubt to many owners would commit to 5 years of bad teams without changing GMs.

[homer]

"So you really think we can just list GM's by lifetime record and that will be best to worst?"

 

Not necessarily but it's not like the Giants have been spending $200 million a year on salaries.

 

 

"Replace Bonds with someone like Thome who had a great career and the Giants lose 8-9 more games per season and aren't looking so rosey anymore, in fact replace Bonds with Thome and the Giants most likely have a losing record under Sabean. "

 

But they didn't have Thome - they went out and signed Bonds. That's like saying "The Brewers would not be as good if they hadn't drafted Fielder".

 

 

I'm not saying win/loss is the end all be all stat, but it certainly figures prominently into the equation. People can rag on Kenny Williams all they want but he got a ring which is more than Billy Beane can say.

[ILuvDaBush]

I don't see how no one likes Kansas City. They have young, cheap position players, a few young pitchers, and while the AL Central has been a monster, it has been terrorized by different teams every year. Kansas City would be my choice. They have a rich history of baseball, and I'm a big fan of Butler.

[Ennder]

But they didn't have Thome - they went out and signed Bonds. That's like saying "The Brewers would not be as good if they hadn't drafted Fielder".

 

No it is like saying if we replaced Bonds with Fielder or what most teams had for their best player you still get 7-8 more wins out of Bonds. Sabean's success was almost 100% having Bonds on the team, who was already on the team when he took over and all he did was re-sign him.

[TooLiveBrew]

ILDB, I agree with you on KC. I think they're a player short of being a solid team. Unfortunately, the Indians pwn that division right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see KC make a better run at the WC next year, but it's just so rough on everyone having the BoSux & Yanks in the same division. Their market constraints (like ours) are the worry.

[logan82]

I am not sure about KC's owner. I know he has money, but he has been a skinflint up until recently. Other than that I would say it would be a pretty good choice.

[Ennder]

I think KC's handled their young callups poorly last year. Gordon shouldn't have been up until about June and Butler was brought up too early since he sat on the bench at first. I think the team itself shows a lot of promise though they still need at least 1 SP (Teahen for Capuano?). I'm also a bit confused by the Olivo signing unless they trade Buck. I still think that team is 3 or 4 years out of contention but they can start to win back the fan base with the team they have now.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"Sabean's success was almost 100% having Bonds on the team"

 

This isn't basketball, where all you need to be successful is one superstar who gets the refs' calls, and 1/5th of your starting lineup (and 1/3rd of your team's shots) are taken up by one player, like Lebron, Jordan or Bryant.

 

As Dave already noted, Texas had Alex Rodriguez, and went nowhere, because you've got to have pitching, and 8 other batters in the lineup. Those years when Sabean's teams enjoyed postseason berths, Bonds was surrounded by some key productive seasons from Benito Santiago, Livan Hernandez, Jason Schmidt, and an MVP like Jeff Kent.