Any accountants here? Update - passed the CPA exam!

[Point Beer Is Best]

This summer I returned to school to add an accounting degree. I have degrees in History and Business Admin from UWSP, but ended up in retail and I'm not so crazy about the possibility of spending my entire career doing it. So I enrolled at UWGB and so far so good (4.0 GPA this semester all while working 44 hours per week as a manager for Walgreen's) and still have 3 semesters left to go before I can take the CPA exam. I'm just wondering what kind of work environment there is in public and in industry accounting before I decide which way to go. Is there anything you wish you were told when you were in my situation? Any insight would be helpful. Thanks!

[foamboy1]

I think you are making a very smart move. I'm not an accountant, but employ a whole bunch of them.

 

Accounting is a profession unto itself (public accounting where you perform accounting work)....also, in my opinion it is one of the best backgrounds to have for a variety of other business activities. Of course the finance and accounting groups inside business employ many accountants, but most of our top operational staff are accounting degreed folks. Over half our senior exec's are accounting folks as well. It's a great background to give yourself the broadest appeal in the business world.

 

I didn't answer your question directly but wanted to offer support.

[Patrick425]

also, in my opinion it is one of the best backgrounds to have for a variety of other business activities. Of course the finance and accounting groups inside business employ many accountants

This is very true. I graduated with an accounting degree from UWM in 1988. I passed the CPA exam several years later, but I never actually obtained my CPA designation. Basically, I never took the ethics exam or completed all the paper work showing work experience, etc. Don't ask me why. I get grief all the time from people I know and work with. A couple of years ago I started to look into what I would need to do now to get it, but I never followed through. I guess I just never worked anywhere where I really felt I needed it. I have mostly worked in the financial industry.

 

Talking to friends that I went to college with that went on to work at bigger accounting firms, it always sounded like it's very cut throat with long hours of work. Not really for me...especially now that I'm married with a family. Of course, a lot of those people have since moved on to other accounting jobs.

 

Not sure if any of this helped you. But PBIB is correct. An accounting degree can give you a lot of versatility.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

You have made an incredibly smart move. I am a CPA, right now, public accounting firms (of which I work for) are starved for people. I'd highly suggest getting your CPA taken as soon as you can, while it's fresh in your mind and then pursue a job with a CPA firm. True, the hours are long, and it's intense, but you'll truly only have to do it for 3-5 years and then you will basically be able to write your own paycheck in a job search of private industry. I know that fresh graduates are getting upwards of $55-60k a year starting for the big firms, but that'll necessitate a move to a Milwaukee or Chicago. Hell, the dregs of most accounting programs at well respected schools (of which UWGB is one (fellow graduate here)) are getting over $45k @ the likes of KPMG or PriceWaterhouseCoopers.

 

Question, is Zehms still the chair of the business program? He's a great guy, comes across as otherwise, but is truly a good guy and a very knowledgeable man. Have fun in his classes...mid-term and final only. There wasn't one of his exams where someone didn't freak and get up and leave after about 15 minutes after the test began. Study hard, do ALL the homework and you'll be set. Good luck.

[I Heart Brewers]

I've worked in accounting (senior accounting analyst) for 5 years now with a degree in Finance & Marketing from UWO. I've spoken with our CFO (we are a mid sized privately held company on the west coast) about getting my CPA to aid our company and make myself more valuable but he believes that one can get the same experience on the job. While I don't know if that is true it would depend why you want to get your CPA license. If you want to work for a public accounting firm, yes, you will need it. Those jobs seem to be more accounting intensive and if that is your career interest go that route. If you would like a job that allows for growth into different areas of the business (logistics, operations management, etc.) you could go into a private company's accounting department. I find I get to tackle so many different tasks on a monthly basis along with my monthly book closing duties that I am always challenged and never lose interest. Either way, having a background in accounting/finance really makes you more attractive to prospective employers as it is a necessary backbone to any company's healthy growth. Both jobs typically require more hours than most other departments (I'm assuming public accountants work much more), but with that comes respect (at least it has from the two companies I have worked at out here) because you are required to clean up all of the messes that pop up from time to time (i.e. daily). It also always seems, as 'TFS' stated, accounting/finance employees are always in demand (if you're competent) within good companies.

 

My two cents.

 

Good luck!

[sbrylski]

Great thread. I'm sure there are other college students like myself absorbing all this info as well. Thanks guys.

[olliegjw]

I am also a current CPA. There are plenty of opportunities out there, since the degree covers the whole business spectrum.

 

Unless you find a private company you really like, I would recommend going into public accounting for a few years. You get to see many different businesses in a lot of different industries. It will help you choose a future career path. You may totally love public, and go on to be partner. Or, like me, you may get sick of public, and move into the private industry.

 

Also, if you go into public accounting, they will usually pay for exam prep fees, and the exam fees also. Some of the exam prep classes are fairly expensive, but they are very helpful.

 

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

I Heart Brewers, get your CPA. Your CFO is being disingenuous at best. He doesn't think you need it because he doesn't want to have to pay you more. A CPA license, besides bringing you prestige & proof of knowledge, ought to mean at least another $5-10k a year. I've been in both private and public. Fortunately for me, the CFO of the company I worked for was honest with me when I asked the same question. He told me that any accountant that wanted to make a career in accounting should get their CPA, but it wouldn't help me any at the company I was working for, as I had already hit the ceiling at that company, unless I wanted to wait another 15-20 years for he and the Controller to retire, and even then, they would probably look outside because they would want someone who brings a fresh and different perspective. I will be forever grateful to him for that. I can tell you for a fact that spending some time in public is extremely beneficial to any accountant. As ollie says, you get to work with a multitude of businesses, that all operate differently, with different beliefs and accounting systems. It's going to give you a more well-rounded background. While it's true that there are very specific rules that govern accounting (publicly-traded at least), there is plenty of grey area there, and seeing as many different approaches as you can makes you a more valuable asset to any company.

 

Point, I'd recommend to you that you try to hook up with a CPA firm during this tax season. It'll give you good exposure to the public life and also provide you with a possible job opportunity upon graduation. Get in and talk to Zehms about it, or if you want to drop me a line, I have a good friend that's a Senior Manager with Virchow Krause in Appleton, he'd know if they'd have any tax season openings, which they will undoubtedly have. Also, where are you from originally? My firm is currently aging at a rather alarming pace, with only three full accountants (myself included) under the age of 45. I'm in Portage, probably wouldn't work for you during college, but upon graduation???

 

Either way, best of luck, feel free to ask me anything else.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Question, is Zehms still the chair of the business program? He's a great guy, comes across as otherwise, but is truly a good guy and a very knowledgeable man. Have fun in his classes...mid-term and final only. There wasn't one of his exams where someone didn't freak and get up and leave after about 15 minutes after the test began. Study hard, do ALL the homework and you'll be set. Good luck.

It's my understanding that Zehms retired last year, and Muzatko is now the accounting chair (and my adviser). I took Muzatko's Intermediate Accounting class this semester and was alarmed at the number of students who were taking the class for the second time. It is now UWGB policy that you must pass your pre-requisite classes with at least a "B" before taking the next class, so that kind of scared me into making sure I did everything that was asked in order to do well in the class and it paid off.

 

Thanks for the input from everybody so far. I'm taking a 1 credit class this coming semester ("Seminar in Accounting Professionalism") that is lead by Muzatko (who's a great professor by the way - will even help clear up any questions you have during an exam). I'm hoping that class will help me make up my mind also. The class forces you to prepare a resume, attend the job fairs, go through mock interviews with actual recruiters (from different disciplines) and brings in guest speakers from CPA firms and private industry. I also need to start making time to attend the open houses that are put on by Clifton Gunderson, Virchow Krause, and others to start meeting potential employers.

 

I have another questions about internships - Are they paid? Right now, my wife and I both work 44hrs per week and have a mortgage, so quitting my job while taking on an internship (even if it is paid) for 15 - 20 hours per week probably isn't going to happen. Most firms hire spring graduates in the fall, so I will be interviewing in October for a full-time job I hope. Will the lack of a part-time internship hurt me? My hands are pretty tied since there is no way I can support my family with an internship, unless I can find something that's 30-35 or so hours per week that pays comparably to what I make now.

 

Edit: I see that Clifton Gunderson and Virchow Krause both offer paid internships. Does anyone know what the compensation range for these would be? If I could get a full-time paying internship that wasn't too much of a pay cut, I think it could really help my career out.

[sbrylski]

I have a general business question as well...

 

What business degree would you say has the most flexibility? I'm assuming either accounting, who's skills I'm sure are needed and extremely helpful anywhere you go, or finance. Which degree might give me the highest career ceiling, with or without grad school?

 

(But answer PBIB's Q's too/first, I don't mean to hi-jack)

[olliegjw]

I have another questions about internships - Are they paid? Right now, my wife and I both work 44hrs per week and have a mortgage, so quitting my job while taking on an internship (even if it is paid) for 15 - 20 hours per week probably isn't going to happen. Most firms hire spring graduates in the fall, so I will be interviewing in October for a full-time job I hope. Will the lack of a part-time internship hurt me? My hands are pretty tied since there is no way I can support my family with an internship, unless I can find something that's 30-35 or so hours per week that pays comparably to what I make now.

 

Edit: I see that Clifton Gunderson and Virchow Krause both offer paid internships. Does anyone know what the compensation range for these would be? If I could get a full-time paying internship that wasn't too much of a pay cut, I think it could really help my career out.

When I was in college, I had a tax internship with Clifton Gunderson. Yes, it was paid. At that time (1997), I got about $12/hour, plus paid overtime. I think I averaged 50-60 hours per week. It was only for 10-12 weeks, so it wasn't a big deal.

 

I probably learned more in my first week of the internship, than I learned in the previous 4 years of college. It was well worth the experience, and I would strongly recommend it to any accounting majors.

 

Edit: The larger firms have probably already filled their internship positions for this coming tax season. I'm sure some smaller firms in your area could always use help, especially in the tax area. If you are interested in tax, you could always try an H&R Block, or something similar. They will train you, and you will get paid.

[olliegjw]

I have a general business question as well...

 

What business degree would you say has the most flexibility? I'm assuming either accounting, who's skills I'm sure are needed and extremely helpful anywhere you go, or finance. Which degree might give me the highest career ceiling, with or without grad school?

 

(But answer PBIB's Q's too/first, I don't mean to hi-jack)

I would have to say accounting, with finance a somewhat close second. Of course, I'm a bit biased being a CPA.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[twobrewers]

I know that fresh graduates are getting upwards of $55-60k a year starting for the big firms, but that'll necessitate a move to a Milwaukee or Chicago

Maybe in Chicago. The firms in Milwaukee are paying around $45-50k for new grads.

 

An accounting degree is 100% the way to go. However, realize that $45k a year isn't all that much money to start off. If you are working for one of the big four, you can expect to average almost 60 hrs a week.

 

When you break that down into an hourly wage, you aren't making that much money. Plus there is extensive travel.

 

BUT, after 4-5 years you can write your own ticket and make mucho dinero.

[JJHardy7]

I Heart Brewers, get your CPA. Your CFO is being disingenuous at best. He doesn't think you need it because he doesn't want to have to pay you more. A CPA license, besides bringing you prestige & proof of knowledge, ought to mean at least another $5-10k a year.

 

I agree with this to a certain extent. I don't think a CPA is a must in the private sector, but it does help one move up in a company faster and start at a higher pay scale. Getting a CPA is the way to go, but it's not a must. There are a lot of companies that don't require a CPA (even at high levels), but they won't pay you more if you get it and they know if you get it you will probably leave.

 

From what I've seen, the best combination in the long-term with the most flexibility may be an undergrad in accounting, a MBA (it can be geared towared a variety of business professions), and a CPA. Just my thoughts.

[SnapFan1]

I am a CPA and work for a large, national public accounting firm. I can echo the remarks made by some of the others. Interships at the large firms have already been filled. I know that interviewing for these takes place in late September and early October. I am guessing you can still hook up with a small firm though. An intership at H&R Block would honestly give you zero experience. What they do is not really accounting, it is more data input with their tax software. The majority of tax returns they work on have a W-2 and maybe a 1099. They train people for a couple hours and away they go. Easy to say the least. Accounting internships are definetly paid. I went to UWW and they have a minimum their accounting interns must be paid. I am not sure what it is now but I am thinking at least $16/hr. Not bad at all for college students. As far as career wise, you should really start in public accounting and then move to private if you want. Your options will be much greater this way. The hours are extremely long in public, especially Nov-April for me, but the summers are much more relaxed (this is great as I have been able to attend many Brewers games). I would suggest going into audit as opposed to tax as well as audit gives you a much wider learning experience. Additionally, most large public firms are now paying for exam fees and prep courses. I am not sure how many private companies do this.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Thought I would bring back an old thread to ask a new question. I'm now in my last semester (should graduate with a 3.97 GPA) and am now looking for suggestions for CPA review courses. Which ones have fellow bf.net members used with success? Which ones should be avoided? Any input would be appreciated.

[BMuch]

PBIB - Did you ever get an accounting internship?

 

To answer your question, I used Becker-Conviser 10 years ago. It was a great program, but I know the format for the exam has changed since I passed the CPA.

 

Good Luck.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I did get an internship this past August (private industry, not public accounting), and they ended up offering me a full-time position (which I accepted) about one month later. This was great as it allowed me to quit my retail job. Up until then, I had been working 44 hours in retail, 18 hours at the internship, and 14 hours of school full-time (not to mention studying). Thank God I have an understanding wife. It worked out pretty well. I had envisioned myself in public accounting, but I enjoy what I do now a great deal. They are also reimbursing my tuition, and will reimburse me any CPA exam-related fees and materials. The ESOP was a huge selling point for me as well.

 

Most students are very aware of Becker, since we get blasted with advertising by them the most. They are usually the most expensive, which is probably directly related to the amount of advertising they do. There are a few other drawbacks to them as well, like only being able to view certain web video content one time, or having your viewing license "expire" after a certain amount of months. I'd prefer something that had DVD's of lectures, and would allow me to study at my own pace (with some guidance). I've browsed around the forums at CPAnet, and I think I just got more confused. Ideally, I'd get the materials for all four sections of the exam from one place.

[BMuch]

Congrats PBIB.

I wonder if And That studied for/took the CPA exam? He would have taken in more recently than I.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Thanks BMuch.

[twobrewers]

I did the Gleim GPA class. (UWM had a class that used this program - so I got credit for it)

 

I can't really say if it "worked" better than the other or not. I spend 4 months studying 8 hours a day and passed all four sections on the first try. But that much studying, I think I would have passed with any program.

[KMFlorie]

I used Gleim as well and had no trouble passing on the first try. I agree with twobrewers that any course will allow you to pass the exam if you allocate an appropriate amount of time to stuyding. The Gleim course I used (books and CD only, no live instruction) cost only a few hundred dollars. Cost was more important to me because I was moving on to additional schooling and didn't have a firm to pay for my review course. However, if price isn't a significant consideration, many of my classmates used Becker and were happy with it.

The Gleim package I used included a lengthy volume for each section of the exam. Each section's volume contained a fairly detailed outline with practice multiple choice questions and simulations (both with detailed answers) for each part of the outline. I also received a CD full of practice questions and simulations with similarly detailed answers. In my experience, the practice simulations in Gleim were much more difficult than those on the actual exam, so I felt well-prepared at test time.

The package I used is currently $340 (http://www.gleim.com/accounting/products.php?cat=CPA#Books). I did not use the audio CDs or Gleim online, so I am unable to vouch for their effectiveness. Good luck!

[Point Beer Is Best]

I just found out that I passed all four sections of the CPA exam! I ended up using CPAexcel as my review course, which I thought was very helpful. I supplemented this with the Gleim books for added multiple-choice questions. Thanks for all of the suggestions. It's been an eventful and rewarding two years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I heard a trained chimp could pass the CPA exam? No, seriously, I'm not in the accounting field but I know many people who had to pass the CPA exam. So I know how hard it is, especially in WI. Congrats!!! Now go enjoy a cold Point or two.