Marquette's NC schedule

[paul253]

I am a huge MU fan, but I have to admit their non-conference schedule leaves little to be desired. They play UW every year, which is good, and even though UWM is down, thats a good scheduled matchup as well. But after that, teams like Coppin St. IUPUI, IUFW, Savannah St, etc....its pretty pathetic and certainly doesn't help MU's national standing. A few years ago, they played Arizona, and another year played UNC. But they seem to be relying on pre-season tournaments to get good opponents like Duke and Oklahoma St. Basketball isn't like college football, where you have to determine your opponents like 7 years ahead of time. Why not take advantage of where you are now and schedule some marquee non conference games. It has helped programs like Memphis and Gonzaga.

 

One suggestion I have is to schedule games against some nationally renowned teams that are on a bit of a down slide. Kentucky is having a horrible year, but I'm sure the BC would sell out anytime MU played Kentucky. Illinois is down a bit but they'd also sell out the BC. Michigan St. would be a good team considering Crean came here from there. Or they could take advantage of this mini-rivalry they have right now with Duke by scheduling a home and home. I realize this involves giving up a home game or two every other year, but wouldn't the nationally televised game and the benefits in terms of national recognition and recruiting make up for it?

[MUCrisco]

Since the Big East schedule is expanding next year and since the men's basketball program is the money maker, they are only able to schedule 1 marquee game away from the Bradley Center besides exempt tournaments such as Maui. Every other year, that team is Wisconsin. They tried scheduling a marquee game at home this year, but they weren't able to get it done. Keep in mind that they share the Bradley Center with the Bucks who have the top priority with dates and times. One team that they considered was Gonzaga, but they wanted to play us in Chicago and Seattle and we weren't willing to do that. Unless Marquette gets a football program, this will not change.

 

That is one reason why the UWM contract is upsetting. Don't get me wrong, I like watching UWM play and I hope that program can get back on track. However, for 2 years, Marquette will not be able to schedule another home and home program since for consecutive years, they have to play @ Wisconsin and @UWM. Expect them to sign a home and home with a good team next yr, since they are able to start that series on the road with Wisconsin at home.

 

This years non conference schedule isn't as bad as it appears. For a better understanding of all of this, check out these two threads on Marquettehoops.com.

 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415#s=415&f=2850&t=1676565

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415#s=415&f=2850&t=1679648

[Shampoo4U]

No Big name college teams want to play away games because they don't get the money required to play the same games as the other top teams. It is all about finding Cupcake U and beating up on them at home and send them away with their paycheck. Sad.

[MUCrisco]

Marquette's men's basketball program has to support all of the other sports programs. They need that revenue they get from playing at home.

[paul253]

It is all about finding Cupcake U and beating up on them at home and send them away with their paycheck. Sad.

 

I think that describes college football more than it describes college basketball. College basketball teams routinely schedule tough NC games to boost their RPI, which helps come tournament time.

 

As far as the whole basketball being the only money maker, I completely understand that, but their are a ton of schools where basketball is their only moneymaker...

 

Georgetown....they played Michigan at home, plus have away games against Memphis and Alabama.

Seton Hall..they play at Virginia, at Penn St, and home vs NC State

Depaul....they played Northwestern and Vanderbilt at home, and at Clemson, at Ole Miss and at Kansas.

Gonzaga...they play at home vs Washington St., Tennessee, Georgia, and at Virginia Tech. Texas Tech, and Oklahoma.

 

I'm not saying that teams like Penn St., Northwestern, and Virginia Tech are national powers, but who would you rather see, Northwestern.....or Northwestern St?

[MUCrisco]

Gtown actually has football. I'm not sure how much money they make off of it though. Plus, we played Duke, Wisconsin, and Okla St. The teams we played are better. We play a much tougher conference schedule than Gonzaga, so that's going to even out. Seton Hall, we've played tougher teams. I've heard that Depaul doesn't care how well their other teams do. Marquette does, so it has a larger budger for their other teams. Also, that Big East schedule expands next yr, so mostly what I was talking about takes affect next yr. Like I said, we tried to schedule a marquee home and home for this year, but it takes two to tango.

I'd rather play IUPUI than Northwestern. Northwestern is terrible. At least we don't owe IUPUI a return game. Take a look at our strength of schedule, and you will see that it is very favorable to most high major schools in the country.

Sagarin rankings:
Div I games only through games of 2007 December 17 Monday
Schedule ranking:
Marquette- 127
Pitt- 239
WVU- 174
Gtown- 316
Prov- 27 wow
UL- 57 schedule has probably hurt them so far
Nova- 235
WI- 210
ND- 260
Cuse- 65
UConn- 257
USF- 134
St John's- 273
Duke- 192
UNC- 113
Kansas- 230
Texas- 153
UCLA-173

When I posted this list, I got this response:
So all that means is a lot of BE teams play sissy schedules, so we have to also? I am sure you can make a list of 20-30 big name schools who DO have good NC schedules?? Which do we want to be? We obviously choose, we make up the schedule, to be in the list of big schools playing horrible NC schedules. We are obviously helped greatly by Maui - peoples concern is with the home schedule though!

So, I complied another list:

Marquette- 127 for comparison. Keep in mind, these are all teams that are below Marquette in the Sagarin rankings

Mich St- 98 Not that much better
Butler-85 Once we get into conference play, this will change.
AZ- 37 Huh, KO's doing a good job vs a tough schedule
Providence- 27
USC- 62
Louisville- 57 Schedule has hurt them
UNLV- 52 Conference play will change this
UMass- 83 see above
UTEP- 90 see above
Ill- 49 Has schedule hurt them also?
Texas Tech- 61 see above
Okla St- 47 see above
NC St- 89 see above
Temple- 35 Schedule has hurt plus conference play will change this
Georgia Tech- 24 Schedule has hurt them.

Keep in mind that teams under this are ranked below 100 according to Sagarin
St Jospeh's- 75
Nevada- 66
New Mexico St- 16
S Miss- 7
St Louis -76
Mich- 43 Their ranking is 156!
Depaul- 53 Schedule has been brutal to them
UWM- 56 oops

That's it my friend. There are no other "big name" schools with good NC schedules.

Edit: BTW, IUPUI and IUPFW have a higher RPI than Northwestern and Penn St right now, and it's not even close. IUPUI is slightly higher than Virginia Tech.

[paul253]

Are those schedules based on games so far, or overall non-conference schedules? Teams like Kentucky, Gonzaga, and Memphis I noticed all had some pretty tough games and weren't on your list. Thats not to knock your list, it was very informative. Plus, two of our biggest 3 opponents, Duke and Oklahoma St. came from a pre-season tournament and were neutral court games. I am not sure if they are going to keep playing in pre-season tournaments, but if they ever stop its going to kill their RPI. Or, if for some reason a team like Oklahoma St. or Duke gets upset and MU plays another mid-major, thats not going to help either. I know Northwestern is no good, but I'd rather play a bad team from a good conference than a bad team from a bad conference. Northwestern wouldn't demand a return game. They know better. It was similar to how MU didn't demand a return game from UNC the year before Wade came.

 

Even if they could get one more team like Kentucky, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan St., etc., a year, that would help. Plus they do a lot of recruiting from Illinois and Minnesota, so that would only help recruiting if they were seen in the area.

[MUCrisco]

That list was through dec 18. Memphis is at 264. Kentucky 167. Zags 108.

 

Expect Marquette to get into an exempt tournament like Maui every yr. I think they are playing one in Chicago next year against top competition. We have played in 1 per yr ever since the NCAA has allowed you to do that. We've played in the Great Alaskan Shootout, the Coaches CBE or something like that in which we faced Texas Tech and Duke last yr, the pre season NIT etc. Obviously, those tournaments are not as good as Maui, but I think that is always the top tournament.

 

Marquette has known that they were in the Maui for about 3 yrs and they've known the other teams. So, they made their schedule accordingly. So, it isn't like they lucked out in playing those good teams. The took that into account.

 

I'm not so sure that Northwestern wouldn't demand a return game. Things have changed since we played North Carolina. Remember, we were not in the Big East back then and our program was at a pretty low point. Now, teams like Bradley are demanding a return game. Heck, Michigan played @ Harvard this year.

 

I agree with you on the one more game thing. I was pretty upset when I saw the schedule this year. Like I said, we tried to do that this year, but we couldn't get it done. I guess we almost got something done with a Pac-10 team, which would have been great. It's not like we didn't try. We do not have our own building and we are not first in the priority list. Add our budget to that, and a lot of factors are going against us. Someone said that a couple of years ago, ESPN tried to help us schedule a marquee game and they couldn't even get it done. Look for use to schedule a marquee home and home next year. If we can't, we are going to have a lot of angry Marquette fans.

 

I don't think we'll ever play Mich St in the regular season. Coaches usually don't like to coach against their very good friends.

 

Edit: If Duke and Okla St would have gotten upset, we still would have played decent teams. If we would have lost, we'd still play decen teams, since Maui plays consolation games. I believe the LA tournament was like that this year and more and more tournaments will probably take this route. Hopefully, Chicago will be like this as well.

 

Also, when you factor in Big East play, we will be better off than Memphis and Gonzaga.

[danzig6767]

I am a huge MU fan, but I have to admit their non-conference schedule leaves little to be desired. They play UW every year, which is good, and even though UWM is down, thats a good scheduled matchup as well. But after that, teams like Coppin St. IUPUI, IUFW, Savannah St, etc....its pretty pathetic and certainly doesn't help MU's national standing. A few years ago, they played Arizona, and another year played UNC. But they seem to be relying on pre-season tournaments to get good opponents like Duke and Oklahoma St. Basketball isn't like college football, where you have to determine your opponents like 7 years ahead of time. Why not take advantage of where you are now and schedule some marquee non conference games. It has helped programs like Memphis and Gonzaga.

 

One suggestion I have is to schedule games against some nationally renowned teams that are on a bit of a down slide. Kentucky is having a horrible year, but I'm sure the BC would sell out anytime MU played Kentucky. Illinois is down a bit but they'd also sell out the BC. Michigan St. would be a good team considering Crean came here from there. Or they could take advantage of this mini-rivalry they have right now with Duke by scheduling a home and home. I realize this involves giving up a home game or two every other year, but wouldn't the nationally televised game and the benefits in terms of national recognition and recruiting make up for it?

1. Memphis and Gonzaga will often try to schedule tough non-conference games because the play in a weaker conference than the Big East. Marquette once conference play starts ends up on most nights playing a tough or really tough team, very few easy win in the Big East. Memphis and Gonzaga in conference play don't get nearly as many marquee games or really tough games. Some of the teams Gonzaga faces in conference play aren't much better than the Coppin St or Central Arkansas type of school MU fans complain that we play out of conference..

 

2. As for trying to schedule games vs big names schools that are in a funk, easier said than done. Schedules are generally done years in advance, no real way to know just how good a team will be when the teams eventually meet on the court. Marquette couldn't just pick up the phone prior to this year and say call up Illinois and ask, how about you come to our gym this year and play us. If Illinois or Kentucky agreed to a home/home with Marquette, those two teams very well could be much better by the time we met them. Plus, neither school would likely be pleased with losing a home game, nor would Marquette.

 

3. As MUCrisco pointed out so well, fans of many schools complain about the same thing and think their school is the one playing to many cupcakes, when in reality, the majority of high profile schools do the same thing. The Coppin St./ Savannah St schools of their like make their rounds of nearly all the big conference schools. Coppin St this year will play

 

Ohio St

Arizona St

Marquette

Indiana

Missouri

Xavier

 

They are like many of these small schools from bad conferences that travel all around the country getting a paid to get whipped by big conference schools before the reals games start for teams in the Big East/ACC/Pac 10. Marquette isn't some lone wolf getting fat records on easy wins in non-conference play by beating the Utah Valley St schools of college ball.

[BuckyTuba]

wisconsin has an unusually heavy NC schedule this year. Georgia, @Duke, @Texas and of course Marquette. Usually Bo Ryan gets criticized for his weak NC schedules, but he made sure he battle tested this team before big 10 play.

[MUCrisco]

Wisconsin also has the benefit of football. Texas will change this, but it should be noted that according to realtime RPI, Wisconsin's schedule is ranked 77 and Marquette's 81. So, Marquette's schedule isn't as bad as it appears.

[bork]

Wasn't this year's schedule hurt by a team backing out of the Classic at the last minute, causing it to be cancelled?

[MUCrisco]

I think it was Rhode Island that backed out. Florida Gulf Coast was suppose to be in the classic and we didn't want to screw them over like Rhode Island, so we honored the game. That's why we are playing them for senior night.

[paul253]

Wisconsin also has the benefit of football

And hockey, but thats not the point. I just don't see how it costs MU that much to schedule a home and home. First of all, they'd lose one home game every two years. And when these crap teams come in its because we are paying them to do so. If you schedule, say, Illinois, you don't have to pay them for it (and if you do, they'd have to pay you when you go down there). Instead of drawing a crowd of 13,000 for a Coppin St. type team, you'd draw about 18,000 for Illinois, plus it would probably be televised nationally (do networks have to pay you for that?) So basically, we are drawing a lot more fans, we aren't paying the other team, we're on all across the country and we lose one home game every other year. Even if MU did lose some money (or more accurately not make as much money), I think it'd be worth it.

[MUCrisco]

If you scheduled Illinois instead of a buy game, then you are scheduling a home and home. So, that wouldn't be 13,000 tickets. Our avg attendence this year has been 14,414. You need to double that since Ill requires a return game, So, it would be 28,818 vs 18,900. That's a big difference. Even if they just made $15 from those tickets(they probably make more), then that would be roughly $150,000 minus the buy games payout, that they are losing. I think buy games are usually around $25,000. We get paid for tv money through our Big East contract, so we wouldn't gain any more there. It would be worth it for the basketball team, but tell that to the other sports who are getting their budget cut. Once again, Marquette tried to schedule a team like Ill at home this year, but it takes two to tango. Read those two threads that I posted in my first response and you will have all your concerns answered.

 

Edit: Texas and Alabama were two other teams that turned down starting the series at the BC this year.

[temke]

i dont know what the details of buy games are, but i did hear someone (matt lepay i think) say that wofford basically funded their entire athletic program for the year by coming to madison to play the badgers.

[zachjack13]

I'm not going to worry about the MU non-conference schedule, because they will be contenders in the Big East, and they will make the tourney unless something miraculous happens, like the entire starting five gets injured. Now, there is so much parity in college basketball, that you can't really judge the SOS rankings because most teams can get beat on any one night.