Where exactly is the market for Bush/Vargas/Capuano?

[barbados73]

I'm sorry if this should be in the rumors, feel free to move if needed.

 

I was looking around trying to find out what teams would have a need for one of the Brewers starters to see if there are any good matchups, and I had a very hard time finding any. Between the better teams(not needing average SPers) and then smaller market teams not wanting to take on salary it made it very hard. I would hate for the Brewers to do it, but I could see them having to deal at least one of the three starter for prospects. Anybody have any ideas on teams that could use them and can/will take on the salaries?

[pogokat]

if carlos silva is worth 11 million and kyle lohse is worth 7-8 million then all three of those guys ae worth quite a bit to someone...

 

can't believe how mediocre silva is...he's like suppan, but worse...a

 

and lohse sucks...i have no idea why he's even getting a big league deal...those two signings are going to be catastrophic when they happen...

[Ennder]

Silva has actually been as good as Suppan statistically if not slightly better. Not giving up any BB's goes a long long way regardless of how many K's you have.

[DrWood]

someone has to think those guys are #4 or better. Every GM thinks he can get a #5 off the scrap heap or their minors.

[TooLiveBrew]

Akin to a hitter not K-ing much, Ennder?

[dadofandrew]

and lohse sucks...i have no idea why he's even getting a big league deal...those two signings are going to be catastrophic when they happen...

 

Kyle is almost exactly league average, 0.25 over his career. Any SP who can throw innings and keep his ERA under 5 has oodles of value.

 

The drama quotient is off-the-charts...sure he's MLB average, but that's a minor league guy...

[pogokat]

i get the lack of walks thing, but giving up a kajillion hits weighs that out...

silva is a 1.4 whip guy...it's smoke and mirrors...he's jame baldwin

[Ennder]

Akin to a hitter not K-ing much, Ennder?

Hiitters not striking out much is a huge huge huge advantage. The thing is if they are not adding SLG to try to not strike out they offset that advantage. Very few players can go out of their way to not K and still hit for power and that is where the problem lies. That is sort of the subtle advantage of guys like Carlos Lee with the bat. He can hit for power and still not K which is a relatively rare talent.

[brewers4eric]

The market for Bush, Vargas, and Capuano is probably located with a team with playoff hopes that suffers a couple of significant injuries during spring training.

[JohnBriggs12]

Every time a team that needs a 4th or 5th starter signs a FA, it lessens their value. There's still a few teams out there (like Texas and White Sox for example) that are relying heavily on untested young guys. Once they get to spring training, they might realize they need a more proven arm in that role and be willing to give up something.

[aracko]

Honestly - has anyone considered the Brewers going with a 6 man or even 7 man rotation?

 

Sounds insane I know but it would be a great way to keep our staffs innings down. Lets face it - odds are Sheets cant make 30 starts. Parra isnt far off of shoulder surgery, Villaneuava and Yo need to build up slowly, and Vargas doesnt pitch deep enough into ballgames to be starting every 5th day.

 

I know there are roster limits which might make it difficult, and baseball is a game of tradition, but if you made Vargas a long relief guy in case someone is getting smacked around you could run with a rotation of

 

Sheets

Capuano

Yo

Parra

Bush

Villaneuava

Suppan

 

Long relief - Vargas

 

We would need to add a second pitcher like Vargas

 

BP - Gagne, TBOW, Riske, Mota or Mclung with some good young arms on standby in the minors.

 

I know its a crazy idea and science can probably show that its a bad plan, and that might leave us a little light in the relief options, and this is probably not the year to experiment, but as teams lose starters guys like Bush and Capuano will have a market.

[DrWood]

Plenty of minor league teams use more than 5 starters, however some of them move back and forth between starting and relieving. I suppose you could try something novel like that, but I don't think anyone has ever tried it in contemporary MLB. You would want Sheets and Yo and maybe others to pitch every 5 days. The role of the others could change.

[Big Reed]

To answer the original question, the Reds are looking for a veteran innings filler starting pitcher. they are trying to acquire the orioles' bedard. if not successful, they could offer Freel or Dunn or Hamilton to the brewers for bush or vargus or Cap.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think Bush/Vargas/Capuano's trade values are low, and until any trades happen with Santana and/or Bedard, teams with starting pitching holes won't listen too long to any offers.

 

I still think that the timing of Sheets' injury last season is the only reason Vargas is still on this roster - CV (elder) could have gotten dealt at the deadline for pen help, and Gallardo could've easily transitioned into his rotation spot. Vargas's value wasn't going to get much higher than what it was at that point last season, but Sheets getting hurt (and Capuano's ineffectiveness, and hamstring injury at the time) made it impossible for Melvin to trade away a healthy starter.

 

Right now the Brewers have the young arms (Yo, Manny, Villy) to take each of the three stooges' rotation spots, but it's going to be difficult getting good trade value for the stooges unless other teams have pitching injuries or rotation holes from trades/free agency.

[barbados73]

That is why I started this thread, because I couldn't find good fits with teams that might need SPers. For one reason or another it seemed that I crossed team after team off the list, whether it be teams like the Red Sox or Angels who don't need a Bush/CV(elder)/Capuano quality pitcher to teams like Tampa Bay who won't take on the salary. Really the only teams that I could come up with were teams in our division(Cardinals, Astros, and Reds) and even with that it appears that we would be trading for minor leaguers(except maybe the Reds). I suppose I don't have a issue with dealing CV(elder) for a minor leaguer or two, but I value both Bush and Capuano higher so unless we got a true prospect I would prefer keeping them.

[RobertR]

It's pretty clear that teams are valuing their prospects highly this offseason and prefer the free agency route. Lohse and Prior should be off the market soon and that will basically leave Bedard, Santana, and what the Brewers have to offer.

 

I strongly suspect that Capuano will be the centerpiece of a deal for a leftfielder or third basemen, perhaps with someone like Zach Jackson tossed in. And Vargas will likely garner some minor league relief pitching depth or a catcher. Who knows, the Mets might not have any faith in Humber and be willing to swap him for a pitcher they have more certainty about.

 

Robert

[jjfanec]

I feel like Texas is still a possibility. Their rotation is awful and blalock is a guy the Brewers are looking at. I know we always look at Gwynn as a guy for them but if you look at their rotation I think any of those three would be an upgrade. I mean Milwood, Padilla, McCarthy, Gabbard and Volquez. It looks like they could use some help. And Dougie loves dealing with Texas.

Outside of Texas there are teams who might need starting pitching like say the Twins (Santana (or Hughes or Lester), Baker, Slowey, Bonser, Perkins?? They look like they need another arm with some experience. I just dont know who they have we could get that is worth trading for, unless it is prospects. I agree with most of the posters that when and if Bedard and Santana get dealt then the Brewers will be in good shape to move one of their guys.

The Orioles if they deal Bedard could be a team to look at. I think the Mets are an option.

[clancyphile]

Vargas and Mota for Blalock?

[Brian the Automator]

Vargas and Mota for Blalock?

That would be a very lopsided trade proposal in favor of the Brewers. Mota was acquired for a non-tender, and Vargas is pretty close to a non-tender himself.

 

[GenoSeligPrieb]

The more I look, since Doug's official fixations seem to be focused on either Hank Blalock, Scott Rolen or Andre Ethier, I don't see much of a natural 2-team fit for our needs and for our trading partner's.

 

Right off the bat, I'd say the Marlins could use a Capuano/Vargas/Bush. So would other obvious have-not's like the Pirates, Devil Rays, Royals and the Nationals.

 

But none of these teams matches up with us....on their own.

 

I can see a 3-way trade making the most sense, with us sending a Capuano/Bush type package to, say, Kansas City, with the Royals giving, say, Los Angeles a Greinke or a Peralta, with the Brewers getting Ethier.

 

I write this, but I know that 3-way deals are rare and difficult to pull off. But it's what I'm rootin' for...

[xisxisxis]

It's pretty clear that teams are valuing their prospects highly this offseason and prefer the free agency route.

 

I think it's less that they value their prospects as much as it's owners flush with tons of cash from record profits. It's easier to spend money for talent than to trade for it. Bush, Vargas and Capuano's values will jump when there isn't any more "free" talent available for purchase. Considering what hacks like Silva are getting I think the Brewers will be happy going into Spring Training with an excess of SP waiting for demand to increase (injuries, poor starts, etc).

 

 

I can see a 3-way trade making the most sense, with us sending a Capuano/Bush type package to, say, Kansas City, with the Royals giving, say, Los Angeles a Greinke or a Peralta, with the Brewers getting Ethier.

 

I write this, but I know that 3-way deals are rare and difficult to pull off. But it's what I'm rootin' for...

 

I hear ya Geno, but Colletti is a disciple of Sabean so he puts little to no value in non-vets. I think LaRoche, Ethier, or Kemp are all available for the right stable of veterans. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rolen in a Dodgers uniform in 2008, since the Cardinals and Dodgers both could use SP, I think a matchup that involves the Brewers is a decent possibility. I'd like to see a deal for Kemp and LaRoche, but I doubt we have the pieces (without trading away a core player) to get both. I think Ethier is valued less than Kemp and would be easier to acquire with LaRoche. An Ethier/LaRoche deal would probably cost us Capuano and Bush which I would seriously consider as a GM, but that means a pretty thin rotation when Sheets goes down.