What is Prince Fielder's worth?

[Hsee2006]

I brought this up in an earlier thread; right now, would you trade Prince for Hanley Ramirez?

Arguments for: They are same age, Ramirez plays a premium defensive position, puts up good power, speed and average and has the body to have long-term success.

 

Arguments against: Prince can hit the ball a country mile, drives in more runs, provides a true slugger and leadership. However, he may have trouble holding his weight down.

 

Obviously, this is all purely speculation and would never happen but I think both teams would have a hard time making this deal. However, Prince's ability to hit the long ball keeps people in the seats gives the edge to Fielder.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wouldn't do it right now, no. If Ramirez were a the same player but on a big-market team, and breaking into the majors 4-ish years from now, I'd do it to be sure. It's an interesting proposition, though - a thought-provoking 'pro/con' debate.

[Ennder]

Arguments for: They are same age, Ramirez plays a premium defensive position, puts up good power, speed and average and has the body to have long-term success.

 

Ramirez is also one of the worst SS's in baseball so not sure this is a plus. Of course Jeter scored out as the worst SS in baseball last year and people still value him for his defense http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

 

I'd say Ramirez and Fielder are pretty comperable in value overall. I don't think I'd trade Fielder for Pujols, he's breaking down physically and that worries me, not to mention the difference in contracts.

[erbacaine04]

I brought this up in an earlier thread; right now, would you trade Prince for Hanley Ramirez?

Arguments for: They are same age, Ramirez plays a premium defensive position, puts up good power, speed and average and has the body to have long-term success.

 

Arguments against: Prince can hit the ball a country mile, drives in more runs, provides a true slugger and leadership. However, he may have trouble holding his weight down.

 

Obviously, this is all purely speculation and would never happen but I think both teams would have a hard time making this deal. However, Prince's ability to hit the long ball keeps people in the seats gives the edge to Fielder.

 

While Hannely plays a Preimum Defensive postition he is a Horrible Defensive player... if fact people are wondering if they should move him to the OF... because he is truly terrible with the Glove and its not even with the Throws... with him its His glove he had 24 errors in 07...and 26 in 06....

this also should be asked in the context of our team.... we have a guy who will be just as good Offensively in Weeks at 2nd base... and having Hardy who is already expendable because we have a Defensive Whiz in Escobar in the waiting....

I would make that trade if he had already made the switch to CF for the Marlins and you could see how his glove is out there....

[JJHardy7]

If Ramirez were a the same player but on a big-market team, and breaking into the majors 4-ish years from now, I'd do it to be sure.

 

I'm a little confused as to what this means. Can you explain it a little more?

[TooLiveBrew]

I meant Fielder's going to really be expensive once he hits arbitration (2009). If he doesn't establish a new record in an arbitration heaing, I'd be shocked. Maybe the Crew will do a buyout deal for one year of FA, but we'll see.

 

If Hanley Ramirez were a prospect coming up with, say, the Red Sox in 2011, then I'd jump at the chance (much as Fla did with Beckett). Obviously at that point - Fielder's prime - you'd get more than just my fictional 'Ramirez' prospect.

[ILuvDaBush]

It's kind of funny that you bring up Boston, because I've always felt Prince would be an obvious replacement for Big Papi and would obviously play a good 1B until he ascended the DH throne. And, thus, I have always pondered what type of package they could give up for him. What's funny is that I have little doubt that they would surrender Clay Buchholz, a player they won't give up for Santana, for Prince straight up. The proposal I always send out towards my old college rommate from Boston is

 

Prince

 

for

 

Buchholz

Youkilis

Delcarmen

Hansen

Masterson

 

And I'm still left wondering if I'll be a footnote in major blunders in Baseball History. But that is what I would imagine Prince's value is in prospect value.

[logan82]

I meant Fielder's going to really be expensive once he hits arbitration (2009). If he doesn't establish a new record in an arbitration heaing, I'd be shocked. Maybe the Crew will do a buyout deal for one year of FA, but we'll see.

I thought Fielder hit arbitration next year already.

[TooLiveBrew]

after 2008, sorry.

[logan82]

The actual arbitration hearing would be in 2009 so you were technically correct. I was just double checking.

[Gopher74]

I brought this up in an earlier thread; right now, would you trade Prince for Hanley Ramirez?

Arguments for: They are same age, Ramirez plays a premium defensive position, puts up good power, speed and average and has the body to have long-term success.

 

Arguments against: Prince can hit the ball a country mile, drives in more runs, provides a true slugger and leadership. However, he may have trouble holding his weight down.

 

Obviously, this is all purely speculation and would never happen but I think both teams would have a hard time making this deal. However, Prince's ability to hit the long ball keeps people in the seats gives the edge to Fielder.

Honestly, yea, I think I'd make that deal. Move Hardy over to 3rd base, Braun to the OF, and then allow LaPorta to play his natural position next year when he comes up. The question then becomes what do you do in the meantime at 1st base? Perhaps if we could squeeze a Willingham to play 1st this year(VERY unlikely) or a Jacob's as a short term answer, all of our problems would be solved, and we'd be potentially set up better for the future, and we'd vastly improve our Defense. You'd take Prince and Braun out of the equation and replace them with at least average fielders.

 

It's just a interesting debate, one that's never going to come to fruition, but still fun to talk about.

[Gopher74]

It's kind of funny that you bring up Boston, because I've always felt Prince would be an obvious replacement for Big Papi and would obviously play a good 1B until he ascended the DH throne. And, thus, I have always pondered what type of package they could give up for him. What's funny is that I have little doubt that they would surrender Clay Buchholz, a player they won't give up for Santana, for Prince straight up. The proposal I always send out towards my old college rommate from Boston is

 

Prince

 

for

 

Buchholz

Youkilis

Delcarmen

Hansen

Masterson

 

And I'm still left wondering if I'll be a footnote in major blunders in Baseball History. But that is what I would imagine Prince's value is in prospect value.

I don't think there is a single player in the game worth this package. This is borderline ridiculous.

No offense, and I think Prince obviously has huge value, but this is a lot more than they'd give up for Santana, and while Prince is younger and much cheaper, he's also not the best pitcher in the game.

 

Buchholz is one of the top pitching prospects in the game. About where Gallardo was last year.

Youk's a VERY good 1st basemen both defensively and offensively.

DeClarmen is a very good pitching prospect, and could be a very important piece to their bullpen next year.

And each of the next two are good solid propsects.

I'd say just those three that I listed would be more than we'd likely get for Prince, even right now.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

I understand who all those prospects are, but Prince, in only his second year in the majors, put up MVP numbers. Any team that were to trade for him would control him for, at a minimum, four years. Now, does anyone think the Twins wouldn't pull the trigger on a straight Johan for Prince trade? I know it's cliche but seriously, with the Regal One, the sky is the limit. The kid could be challenging every Bonds record, and do it with no taint of steroids. I know it is a true haul in terms of prospects and pitching, but Prince is a true once-in-a-generation player. He dethroned Pujols for the All-Star start at 1B. And while I like Clay and Youk, I don't think any of those players is going to approach the type of numbers Prince puts up. Combine his projection with his contract status, nevermind the name recognition, and you would have to believe he is definitely in the top five most valuable commodities in the major leagues. One need look no further than Boston's famed consultant, Bill James, who believes Prince is the best young player in baseball.

[Gopher74]

I understand who all those prospects are, but Prince, in only his second year in the majors, put up MVP numbers. Any team that were to trade for him would control him for, at a minimum, four years. Now, does anyone think the Twins wouldn't pull the trigger on a straight Johan for Prince trade? I know it's cliche but seriously, with the Regal One, the sky is the limit. The kid could be challenging every Bonds record, and do it with no taint of steroids. I know it is a true haul in terms of prospects and pitching, but Prince is a true once-in-a-generation player. He dethroned Pujols for the All-Star start at 1B. And while I like Clay and Youk, I don't think any of those players is going to approach the type of numbers Prince puts up. Combine his projection with his contract status, nevermind the name recognition, and you would have to believe he is definitely in the top five most valuable commodities in the major leagues. One need look no further than Boston's famed consultant, Bill James, who believes Prince is the best young player in baseball.

Yea, and I agree with all of that. The problem I have is even the most valuable young player in the game isn't worth that package IMO.

 

 

 

It's really not a matter of me being of the same opinion on Prince. It's simply me thinking that no player is worth that package. Especially not a team that has a guy like Ortiz, and a very solid 1st basemen in Youk already. Where is their motivation to do this? Is the difference between Prince and Youk worth those four prospects? Take into account his offensive and defensive value? Of course if you're just using this as a rhetorical(Which these all are), but a rhetorical in which Ortiz isn't there, it makes a little more sense, but it's still asking for way too much IMO. We'd have a helluva staff though.

 

[Big Reed]

what would the fans do if the brewers traded prince for prospects? Would they revolt? would they have picket signs of protest? would they stop attending games? or would they just accept their fate as being a AAA farm team for the real major league teams and continue to support what they will obviously realize is just a second teir baseball team?

 

I have to believe the fans will react a lot differently if Prince is traded than they did when Carlos Lee was traded.

 

is Prince worth $20 million a year? you better believe he is. and brewer ownership better find a way to come up with that kind of cash to pay him.

[Oldcity]

It doesn't matter if the player is Babe Ruth, the Brewers can't have one player take up 25% of their payroll. Either Prince takes a below-market deal to stay a few extra years, or he'll be gone. That won't be for quite awhile yet though.

[And That]

-We could never get the value in trade that Fielder is worth for the next 2 or 3 years.

 

-We have him under control for another 4 years.

 

-He'll be playing for us for at least another 3 years.

 

-I'm not too worried about 2011 or 2012 right now.

[Gopher74]

what would the fans do if the brewers traded prince for prospects? Would they revolt? would they have picket signs of protest? would they stop attending games? or would they just accept their fate as being a AAA farm team for the real major league teams and continue to support what they will obviously realize is just a second teir baseball team?

 

I have to believe the fans will react a lot differently if Prince is traded than they did when Carlos Lee was traded.

 

is Prince worth $20 million a year? you better believe he is. and brewer ownership better find a way to come up with that kind of cash to pay him.

If you VASTLY underestimate our fans baseball IQ then perhaps those are the outcomes one might come up with, however, I don't think that we're idiots. I think we understand the nature of the game, and I think that life will go on after Prince Fielder and as is the case often times, we could end up having more success.

 

We're going to load up on draft picks the next year or two, and we will have Jack Z for at least one of those years. Add those picks(6 in the top 45) to an already top 5-8 farm system and you're going to be just fine. Now factor in that we'll get very good players back for Prince, young, cheap players, and finally consider that we're going to be able to keep most of our other good young players without Prince, and yea, our fans will be just fine.

 

You're always going to have your simpleton's who whine about it, and assuming we make a good deal, they'll be right back on the bandwagon as long as we win.

 

 

[And That]

Add those picks(6 in the top 45) to an already top 5-8 farm system and you're going to be just fine.

I agree with most of the stuff you said, but our farm system is no longer top-end. We are probably top half, but that's about it, IMO.

 

[Gopher74]

It doesn't matter if the player is Babe Ruth, the Brewers can't have one player take up 25% of their payroll. Either Prince takes a below-market deal to stay a few extra years, or he'll be gone. That won't be for quite awhile yet though.

And it's not going to be the end of the Brewers if we continue to draft well. I'm pretty sure we can find ourselves another 1st basemen. Heck, with the young OF prospects we've got, Hart may well end up back at 1st.

 

Whoever it is won't be Prince Fielder, but they also won't cause us to lose Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Braun, Gallardo...or whatever combination it may be.

[Gopher74]

Add those picks(6 in the top 45) to an already top 5-8 farm system and you're going to be just fine.

I agree with most of the stuff you said, but our farm system is no longer top-end. We are probably top half, but that's about it, IMO.

 

Well, I'm just going by Baseball America which still has our farm system ranked among the elite.

 

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Some value prospects and farm systems based on how many players they've got in the upper levels and how close those players are to contributing. Others value potential and tools. Obviously both sides will take each into account, but if you're of the second line of thinking, then I can't agree that we're not a top 10 system. We've got some very talented players in the lower levels, it's just that most are a couple years away, and we don't really have any high impact players save for Parra ready to come up next year, and that's fine because we don't have any room for them. But starting on 09, I think we're going to see a pretty impressive group coming back through.

 

 

 

 

[StrangeBreww]

-We could never get the value in trade that Fielder is worth for the next 2 or 3 years.

 

-We have him under control for another 4 years.

 

-He'll be playing for us for at least another 3 years.

 

-I'm not too worried about 2011 or 2012 right now.

absolutely. The last thing I want to do now is even think about cutting ties with Prince. Prince is part of the reason other players want to be here again. No way no how do we even consider a deal involving him in the near future.

[logan82]

And it's not going to be the end of the Brewers if we continue to draft well. I'm pretty sure we can find ourselves another 1st basemen.

We already have a 1B in our system. He is just currently misscast as a LF.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think he's 'miscast' as a way to have a spot for him by 2009. As mentioned, Prince isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so DM & Co. have tried this to get LaPorta's bat to the show asap. When the crummy time comes that Prince has to go, LaPorta will probably move back to 1B - or perhaps he'd even play some games there from time to time to give Prince a break.

[logan82]

I think it's PR. Imagine how the guy would get treated by fans if he was drafted and then left at 1B while Fielder is still with the Brewers. He would already have his own personal antifan club by the time he reaches the big leagues if he was drafted as the heir apparent for Prince.