reason for a little concern or no? brewers bench

[BrewCrew4ever]

Ok still relativley a newbie but here it goes...

To me Dillon and Rottino are basically identical with the 1 major difference being that Rottino has catching experience and could be valuable as a 3rd Catcher on the Bench.

I researched Dillon and Rottino and thought I would share my findings. I've listed them both below and in order of their positions/experience as best as I could.

Dillon Rottino

LF 3B

1B LF

2B 1B

3B C

RF 2B

I dont have much for numbers...mostly because they have very little major league experience...but I do have
Dillon

 <font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="635411422-18122007"> Year Ag Tm Lg Pos G PO A E DP FP lgFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9 GS Inn +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+ <span id="fieldByYearExplain">+---- Fielding Sorted by Year ------+ </span></span></font> 

2005 29 FLA NL 2B 4 5 7 1 2 .923 .984 3.00 4.30 4.15 4.98 2 26.0 LF 3 2 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 0.67 1.53 3.00 1.95 0 6.0 3B 2 2 1 0 0 1.000 .968 1.50 2.40 3.00 2.80 0 9.0 1B 1 2 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 2.00 8.30 9.00 9.45 0 2.0 2007 31 MIL NL LF 8 13 0 0 0 1.000 .985 1.62 1.55 2.70 2.00 0 43.3 1B 5 25 2 0 5 1.000 .993 5.40 7.84 8.68 9.22 0 28.0 2B 3 10 6 0 2 1.000 .982 5.33 4.23 5.76 4.86 0 25.0 3B 3 1 2 0 1 1.000 .968 1.00 2.27 3.86 2.70 0 7.0 RF 1 0 1 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.00 1.80 1.50 2.25 0 6.0

 <span id="fieldByPosExplain">+---- Fielding Sorted by Position --+ </span> 

2005 29 FLA NL 1B 1 2 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 2.00 8.30 9.00 9.45 0 2.0 2007 31 MIL NL 1B 5 25 2 0 5 1.000 .993 5.40 7.84 8.68 9.22 0 28.0 2005 29 FLA NL 2B 4 5 7 1 2 .923 .984 3.00 4.30 4.15 4.98 2 26.0 2007 31 MIL NL 2B 3 10 6 0 2 1.000 .982 5.33 4.23 5.76 4.86 0 25.0 2005 29 FLA NL 3B 2 2 1 0 0 1.000 .968 1.50 2.40 3.00 2.80 0 9.0 2007 31 MIL NL 3B 3 1 2 0 1 1.000 .968 1.00 2.27 3.86 2.70 0 7.0 2005 29 FLA NL LF 3 2 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 0.67 1.53 3.00 1.95 0 6.0 2007 31 MIL NL LF 8 13 0 0 0 1.000 .985 1.62 1.55 2.70 2.00 0 43.3 2007 31 MIL NL RF 1 0 1 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.00 1.80 1.50 2.25 0 6.0

 +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+ Position Total LF* 11 15 0 0 0 1.000 .987 1.36 1.55 2.74 1.99 0 49.3 2B* 7 15 13 1 4 .966 .982 4.00 4.27 4.94 4.92 2 51.0 1B* 6 27 2 0 5 1.000 .993 4.83 7.92 8.70 9.24 0 30.0 3B* 5 3 3 0 1 1.000 .968 1.20 2.32 3.38 2.76 0 16.0 RF* 1 0 1 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.00 1.80 1.50 2.25 6.0 +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+ Overall Total 30 60 19 1 10 .988 .986 2.63 3.59 4.68 4.50 2 152

<font size="4">[b] Rottino[/b]</font>





Year Ag Tm Lg Pos G PO A E DP FP lgFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9 GS Inn PB +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+---+ <span id="fieldByYearExplain">+---- Fielding Sorted by Year ------+ </span> 

2006 26 MIL NL 3B 3 2 3 0 0 1.000 .962 1.67 2.37 3.21 2.70 2 14.0 LF 2 3 0 0 0 1.000 .968 1.50 1.55 2.52 1.93 1 10.7 C 1 3 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 3.00 6.40 13.50 7.20 0 2.0 0 2007 27 MIL NL 1B 1 4 0 0 1 1.000 1.000 4.00 7.80 9.00 9.22 0 4.0 LF 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 1.60 0.00 1.80 0 2.0

 <span id="fieldByPosExplain">+---- Fielding Sorted by Position --+ </span> 

2007 27 MIL NL 1B 1 4 0 0 1 1.000 1.000 4.00 7.80 9.00 9.22 0 4.0 2006 26 MIL NL 3B 3 2 3 0 0 1.000 .962 1.67 2.37 3.21 2.70 2 14.0 2006 26 MIL NL C 1 3 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 3.00 6.40 13.50 7.20 0 2.0 0 2006 26 MIL NL LF 2 3 0 0 0 1.000 .968 1.50 1.55 2.52 1.93 1 10.7 2007 27 MIL NL LF 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 1.60 0.00 1.80 0 2.0

 +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+---+ Position Total 3B* 3 2 3 0 0 1.000 .962 1.67 2.37 3.21 2.70 2 14.0 LF* 3 3 0 0 0 1.000 .968 1.00 1.57 2.13 1.91 1 12.7 1B* 1 4 0 0 1 1.000 1.000 4.00 7.80 9.00 9.22 4.0 C* 1 3 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 3.00 6.40 13.50 7.20 0 2.0 0 +--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+---+ Overall Total 8 12 3 0 1 1.000 .980 1.88 3.25 4.09 3.44 3 33 

[BrewCrew4ever]

Sorry about the formatting...but the important part looks fine which is the positional fielding breakdown.

[zzzmanwitz]

So what you are basically saying is we don't have enough major league data on either player to make an assessment of who would be better in the field.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

There really isn't any meaningful comparison between Dillon and Rottino. Dillon spent '06 in Japan, but his AAA stats from '04,'05, and '07 are remarkably consistent and off-the-charts good:

'04.....329 / 398 / 669
'05.....360 / 459 / 631
'07.....317 / 405 / 605

All three years that's an OPS north of 1.000. For comparison, here's Rottino's last three:

'05.....299 / 354 / 408
'06.....314 / 379 / 440
'07.....289 / 363 / 446

Nothing to scoff at, but not remotely in Joe Dillon's league as a hitter. Believe that CHONE projection I posted earlier. Given a full season's worth of ABs, he's a threat to post an OPS in the 850 - 900 range.

There's no reason they both can't make the team, though. I'd rather carry Rottino as an emergency, do-anything type than have Gwynn or Rivera on the roster, as he'd likely outhit either one of those guys.

[logan82]

Yes. As of today, if our bench can be: Counsell, Dillon, Gross, Rottino, Munson/Rivera... we'd have one of the best in the NL.

 

Disagree a little since I think Gross is our starter in LF until we add either a LF or 3B. Take out Gross and put in Gwynn and I would agree.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, I was obviously counting on the 3B vacancy being filled. With Gwynn in there instead of Gross, I don't know if I'd agree.

Believe that CHONE projection I posted earlier. Given a full season's worth of ABs, he's a threat to post an OPS in the 850 - 900 range.

 

I recall the ZiPS projection only had Joe at a part-time total of ABs though. I don't think CHONE would be much different. I think that if you extrapolate some reasonable expectations for Joe D. over a full season's worth of ABs, then yes he could post a full-time OPS around what you've said. However, I don't think he'd be able to sustain that kind of output if he actually were to log FT ABs (as opposed to extrapolation). Yet another reason (combined with versatility & great approach at the plate) why I think he has tons more value as a bench player.

[And That]

I look at Joe Dillon as a fairly proven commodity. He's put up big numbers in AAA for several years now, CHONE projects him at 280/356/492 for '08 (that's better than Geoff Jenkins' CAREER line). Matter of fact, I'm starting to wonder whether he shouldn't be given an opportunity to be the starting 3B

Add another convert to the Dark Side!

You know, I hadn't truly considered Dillon to be an option at third, mostly because I have become obsessed with getting Scott Rolen in there. But the more I think about it, the less I mind it. Anyone who can field a ball in his zone is an instant improvement over Braun, and the projections for Dillon have me amped that he wouldn't be terrible. Plus, I like his swing. Not over the top, not hitchy, just solid, line-drivey.

You've converted me assuming we can't get Rolen and are not smart enough to have a Blalock/Cirillo platoon. Viva Joe-Dilla!

[DrWood]

Yes. As of today, if our bench can be: Counsell, Dillon, Gross, Rottino, Munson/Rivera... we'd have one of the best in the NL.

 

As of today? who's playing LF or 3B if dillon, and gross are both on the bench? the bench is bad.

[Big Reed]

I'm not too worried yet. No, I'm not really thrilled with any of the brewers' bench players. the brewers offered a contract to Iguchi. i doubt it was with the intention that he would start. I have to believe they will offer a similar contract to some other major league player to be a super ulity player. While I don't want him back, graffy is still available as is Marcus Giles. Ensberg and McPhearson are still looking for part time jobs. Branyon anyone? Lofton and Mench and Cameron are looking for work. Lofton would be a great 4th outfielder. Sammy Sosa is looking around. Sean casey is out of a job. he has a nice glove. Bonds is out there. I would start worrying about our bench in February.

[logan82]

Well, I was obviously counting on the 3B vacancy being filled. With Gwynn in there instead of Gross, I don't know if I'd agree.

Oops. Our bench with Gross would be way better than our bench with Gwynn.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wood - in post #30, I wrote; "I was obviously counting on the 3B vacancy being filled."

 

I don't think anyone here is discussing this bench with the expectation that Dillon or Gross will be starting in any capacity.

[LouisEly]

Now, one might argue in the NL, you need better bench guys, as you'll use them more, so I'll take an NL playoff team, the Phillies

 

Abraham Nunez -- .600 OPS

Wes Helms -- .665 OPS

Jayson Werth -- .863 OPS (that's nice from a bench guy, yup)

Chris Coste -- .730 OPS

And two of the four are Brewers castoffs, one of whom was paraded out of town. I think the Brewers have a good bench (key word "good", not "great") because the key to a good bench is role players. Gross can be a starter because he hits righties very well, and 75% of all pitchers are righties; so either platoon him with Dillon or move Braun there and have Gross be the 4th OF and I'm fine. TGJ is almost a perfect 5th OF - speed, defense, good pinch runner and defensive replacement; that's the role of a 5th OF; a 5th OF is not an every day player and shouldn't be. Counsell, while on the wrong side of 35, is a good defensive player who can play both middle infield positions - another key of a good bench player is being able to play multiple positions. He's also a veteran who can teach the young guys some things about fielding. Dillon also can play multiple positions - 3B, 2B, 1B, LF; he's had great minor league numbers and in a small sample very good major league numbers so why not give him a shot? Prior to last season he was only given 36 major league ABs in 2005 to prove himself; now that the sample size is getting larger his numbers are getting better. Let him keep succeeding until he fails.

 

And like others said, most teams struggle to find one good catcher much less two. I've rehashed this many, many times but most backup (and starting) catchers for the Brewers this decade are still in the league. The reality is that there are about 10 catchers in the majors who are above average offensively and defensively and the rest are interchangeable, and your backup catcher is probably going to be one of those interchangeable ones.