Is this a time to be trading for prospects?

[Madtown Bomber]

I am listening to the score in Chicago this morning and they on a guy talking about the NL Central. They were talking about all the rumored deals that didn't go down. They got talking about deals that might go down and they said the Rangers who are desperate for OF'ers at all levels of their organization are still after TGJ. They said the Brewers talked to them about a package prospects including some dude named Taylor Teagarden, who had Tommy John surgery this year, a guy named Chris Davis, and another guy named Neil Ramirez for TGJ and Dave Bush.

 

Now there is not one Major League ready player on that list...the best guy just had Tommy John! Are the Brewers in a position right now to make a deal for prospects? If I am going to deal Bush and TGJ we better get one MLB ready player. Any deal with the Rangers better include Hank Blalock and/or Wes Littleton.

 

*edit* I just want to say they gave no indication that this was anything close but just talked about.

[twobrewers]

Other than 3B (or LF, depending on where Braun plays) the Brewers have no holes that need to be filled. You are unlikely to improve the starting pitchers/bullpen/or any other spot on the roster.

 

So if you have excess players at any position (Starting pitching) - then yes, you trade for prospects.

 

However, as much as I dislike Gwynn (and that is a a lot) - I am not sure I would trade him for prospects. OF isn't a position where we have too many players. Gwynn is a very good defensive CF. And a good baserunner. I think he is an ideal 5th OF.

[Brian the Automator]

I am listening to the score in Chicago this morning and they on a guy talking about the NL Central. They were talking about all the rumored deals that didn't go down. They got talking about deals that might go down and they said the Rangers who are desperate for OF'ers at all levels of their organization are still after TGJ. They said the Brewers talked to them about a package prospects including some dude named Taylor Teagarden, who had Tommy John surgery this year, a guy named Chris Davis, and another guy named Neil Ramirez for TGJ and Dave Bush.

 

Now there is not one Major League ready player on that list...the best guy just had Tommy John! Are the Brewers in a position right now to make a deal for prospects? If I am going to deal Bush and TGJ we better get one MLB ready player. Any deal with the Rangers better include Hank Blalock and/or Wes Littleton.

 

*edit* I just want to say they gave no indication that this was anything close but just talked about.

TGJ is a pretty fringy MLB player, and Dave Bush is a bottom-of-the-rotation starter.

 

Blalock's a career .800 OPS third baseman, and Wes Littleton has a career 3.20 ERA in an AL Hitter's park and is just 25 years old. I'd be surprised if the Rangers felt a combination of TGJ and Dave Bush would be worth one of those two players.

So, if the choice is between getting pretty mediocre major-league talent back or getting prospects, I'd take the prospects.

[splitterpfj]

Mr Teagarden had his elbow done following the 05 season, causing him to miss all but 7 games of the 06 season.

 

How did he do in his first year back? Split between A+ and AA, Teagarden hit 27 HR, with an OPS of 1.012.

 

He split the season between DH and Catcher, but if there's a chance he can stick behind the plate....yes, please continue the discussion.

 

Davis is still very young, he'll be 22 in March. 07 was his first season playing third base, after splitting 06 between the outfield and first base, at third, he was charged with 34 errors in 120 games, so he may not stick there - but as I said, it was his first season at the position.

 

Davis hit 36 HR, split between high A and AA, with an OPS of .945, if the Brewers think he could stick at third base, I'm sure they'd ask about a kid like that. I suppose it's also possible that the Brewers would move Davis in a deal to add a veteran third baseman.

[colbyjack]

I'm not sure how much validity there is to what you heard Bomber.

 

Ramirez was drafted last year, and signed close to the August 15th deadline IIRC. Even as a PTBNL the deal couldn't go down until mid-January, and even then why would the Brewers trade for a pitcher they couldn't have in their system and under the watch of their own staff until mid-August?

 

Chris Davis is a 3B whose defense may move him to either LF or 1B. Not exactly the type of player the Brewers would likely be targeting.

 

And as you noted, the best known prospect of the bunch is a catcher coming off of TJ surgery, although as splitter noted he is coming off of a very strong season.

 

I don't doubt that the Rangers would like to have Gwynn or even Bush, but this doesn't even take into the fact that Melvin likely is looking for pieces to help the 2008 club, not the 2010 team.

[Big Reed]

I was very upset the brewers didn't draft Teagarden in 2005. VERY UPSET! i think I mentioned his name about 100 times in the chat room that draft day. BA described him as an exceptional defensive catcher with soft hands and a very strong and accurate throwing arm. His tommy john surgery is 2 years behind him. it's obvious neither the caller or announcer knew much about him. you put togethr a guy who is exceptionally defensively with a guy who can hit 27 homers, and you put a catcher's mask on him and you have a bonified superstar. I'd jump all over a deal that would unload gwynn for teagarden. And i could see teagraden changing his name as well to Beer Garden making him a cult figure in beer town.

 

Something to think about with Teagarden. Last year was essentually his first year in the minors. he did have 31 games in the instructional league in 2005 and was injured for 2006. Where did the rangers start him out after his surgery? he started at high A and made it to AA in his first full minor league season. That speaks volumes about his ability and the rangers' confidence in him. he could start this year at AAA and be waiting in the wings for a call-up.

 

Guys like Gwynn are a dime a dozen ; easy to find and easy to replace.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd be all over Teagarden.

 

Heck he'd be capable of helping in 2008 as he posted a plus .800 OPS in AFL. He's blocked in Texas so I imagine he could be had.

[colbyjack]

Texas does have a wealth of talent at C. The acquisition of Ben Broussard all but guarantees that Saltalamacchia will be the team's everyday C next year, with Gerald Laird as a frequent name in trade rumors. Teagarden probably returns to AA to open the 2008 season, and wouldn't be that far away from contributing.

 

As for drafting Teagarden, the Brewers had two chances to do so in 2005, and that means either they don't take Ryan Braun or Will Inman. I can see not drafting Inman in hindsight, and if that's the pick you were upset about at the time I'll give you that, but who the heck is going to argue against Braun? Plus, Teagarden is a Boras guy, which may not be as big of an issue now (with Fielder, LaPorta and Gagne), but it was two years ago.

 

I'm still concerned that he played more DH last season than C, and keep in mind his stats were posted in the two leagues that favor offense more than any other, the Cal and Texas leagues. He would be solid target, but I guess I don't see Melvin making a move for a prospect when he still hasn't figured out the 3B/LF scenario.

[Oldcity]

I don't really think there's ever a time to "not be trading for prospects," just like there's never a time to "only be trading for prospects." I'd probably wait until the Brewers sorted out the LF/3B situation, but if Gwynn isn't involved in that I'd be all for a deal similar to this.

[Tbadder]

I think that it's never time for trading prospects if it is a small market team unless:

 

a) other prospects are returned, or

b) established players can be flipped for other prospect(s).

 

I say this because I think it's unrealistic, although ocassionally it might work, to believe that small market teams can obtain that one player or two that puts them over the top. Instead what I think happens is that small markets either:

 

a) over pay for established talent, or

b) get stuck with scratch and dent veterans that actually drag the team down.

 

The compunction to trade for veterans also drives up the cost of doing business and threatens the future of said small market teams.

[Big Reed]

i don't see gwynn as being a prospect anymore. i also don't see gwynn as ever being the brewers' starting outfielder. I don't see him as anything more than a back-up for the brewers. if another team wants him, I say fine. I have the same thoughts about AAA and AA players. if i don't see a future for them on the brewers, and if another team is interested, i'd say fine here have him. I would have no problem trading brad nelson or Zach jackson away because I don't see a future for either player. That could be the main reason melvin was willing to trade Inman last year. he didn't see him being able to crack the brewers future rotation.

 

Unfortunately, the brewers didn't have a second round pick in the 2005 draft. Inman was a smart pick on draft day in the third round. However , he had a lot of scouts that had mixed reviews on him, and he might have slipped to the 4th round. Regardless of how good Inman was in high school or how great he was in his first two years in the minors for the brewers, Teagarden was there for the taking in the third round for the brewers. looking at the brewers' catching for the past decade, if i was melvin, i would have jumped up and down and drafted teagarden in the third round. As a boras client, Teagarden recieved the highest bonus of any third round pick. he received $725k. Inman received $500k. That doesn't seem like a lot more to give considering Teagarden was a college catcher with both offensive and defensive strengths.

 

if the brewers had the chance last year, i would have wanted them to draft C Wieters from georgia tech.

 

I found it odd last year that the rangers acquired Saltamachia when they already had Laird and Teagarden in the minors.

[chadomac]

i don't mean to change the subject, but I sure would like Saltamachia on the Brewers. too bad the timing didn't work out on us needing a catcher and the time he was dealt.

[Big Reed]

I would have to wonder how much the rangers love Salty verses how much they wanted to unload teixeira. That's not a trade I would have made if I were the Rangers.

[mothershipconnection]

I don't really think there's ever a time to "not be trading for prospects," just like there's never a time to "only be trading for prospects." I'd probably wait until the Brewers sorted out the LF/3B situation, but if Gwynn isn't involved in that I'd be all for a deal similar to this.

 

Yeah, it all simply depends on how soundly you "win". Sometimes, you're hoping for the playoffs and you'd only trade for prospects if you can win big, while you may also be in a losing funk but may still be wise to trade prospects for superior MLB talent.

[ILuvDaBush]

I wouldn't be totally opposed to a deal where we traded Vargas for a minor league relief prospect. We seem to have a bit of a barren system now for relief prospects beyond Pena and Stetter, though those are also recent developments. If Cappy were traded for a prospect, I would hope it would be a catcher (Clement) or a young starting arm, perhaps a D-Ray or Marlin, as they have an abundance of young starting pitching.

[Nader Raider Tim]

The Brewers have to many pitchers to carry on the roster, someone will have to be traded. The Brewers are in a position where they have very few holes to fill. So now is the time to try and maximize value, regardless of whether they players you get in return are prospects, young major leaguers, or older veterans.

[Hammer]

Bump. Does this mean the surplus of #4/#5 pitchers that we have will be shipped out for prospects now that the team looks to be finished? A 3B of the future? Maybe a stable of A and AA arms? Another closer prospect?

[SoCalBrewfan]

At this point I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a deal of a pitcher for a prospect or two who are not yet on the 40-man roster.

[logan82]

I would like to see Vargas dealt for prospects. He isn't a bad pitcher for either the 4th or 5th spot in the rotaion. but we don't have room for everybody and I think we would loose whoever we send through waivers.

[endaround]

David Bush has an option remaining and Capuano has two remaining. Obviously it makes little sense to have them spend their prime pitching years in AAA while getting paid 7 figures but they need not lose anybody to waivers.

[MoneyballMan]

Whether DM gets prospects or not, at least by signing Cameron he has now increased his ability to do so. Prior to that, he really had to hold back all of the SP's in case a deal came around for a 3B or LF. That could still happen, but this should free him up to look for some pretty solid prospects once teams start getting desperate to fill out their rotations. Even if it's not until the trade deadline. Maybe Seattle or KC would do Vargas for a couple of high-ceiling prospects. Seattle is a little intriguing - they have Kenji Johjima (through 2008) and Jeff Clement (their future C), but also have Rob Johnson. I've read pretty good things about him - very good defense, athletic/runs better than most catchers, high % of runners thrown out. Maybe a Vargas for Rob Johnson and a pitcher (maybe Tony Butler - local WI product with pretty good upside)?

[billyhallfan]

you always take prospects, especially if you can get any of them for Gwynn.

[strawbossisevil]

I think we should only unload Vargas for prospects. (I doubt he'd bring in much in the way of prospects either)

 

 

 

If we stick Parra in AAA to start the season and stick Bush in the bullpen (and Cappy in the Rotation).

 

 

 

That gives us a rotation of:

 

Sheets

 

Gallardo

 

Villy

 

Suppan

 

Capuano

 

 

 

A bullpen of:

 

Gagne

 

Riske

 

Torres

 

Turnbow

 

Shouse

 

Mota

 

Bush

 

 

 

In this case, we are very protected if injuries were to hit us next season. We'd have two starters capable of starting in the rotation (Parra and Bush), which I think is very important, because you never know how many pitchers could go down over the course of a season (and how many at the same time). I'd rather not have a rash of injuries force us into using Zach Jackson as a starter. Those days should be behind us.

[MoneyballMan]

I should pull out the proposal I made in my previous post and ask a couple of our resident prospect/minor league experts to weigh in on the merits. Does this potential deal with Seattle represent the kind of value we could hope for in return for Vargas?

 

Vargas for C Rob Johnson and SP Tony Butler

[Ennder]

I'd happily trade Vargas or even Bush and Gwynn for a true C prospect.