Luis Gonzalez or Shawn Green?

[wcswimmer712]

Why no interest in left-handed hitting free agents Luis Gonzalez or Shawn Green?

 

Gonzo had a respectable year, posting a .278 AVG, .359 OBP, with 15 HR, slugging .433.

 

Green .291/ .352 OBP/ .430 SLG with 10 HR, 30 2B, and only 62 K. Also split .196/ .326 versus left and right handed pitching, respectively -- good platoon mate with dillon?

 

Other than trading for a LF, these might be the best available Free agent LF, along with Kenny Lofton

 

Edit: Excessive punctuation in title. - Toby

[trwi7]

If we're going to go with a platoon we might as well just save the money and go with Gross.

[brettac1]

Other than trading for a LF, these might be the best available Free agent LF, along with Kenny Lofton

 

I think that pretty much sums up why they are looking for 3B's instead of LF's (along with the desire to move Braun off 3B, which seems to be, rightly in my mind, the lone remaining goal of the offseason). There just isn't anything really worthwhile there. At this point, the amount you would pay for the name when acquiring a guy like Gonzo, Green, or Lofton isn't worth it when considering that they could probably piece together a platoon for a couple million or less that could put up the same line. And none of them are very good defensively, especially Gonzalez.

 

I think Braun is the LF of the next couple years, at least.

[TheCouga23]

I was once all about picking up Gonzalez as a FA, but the more I think about it, I, too, think that we need better defense in the infield. Which means Braun has to move.

 

On top of his 101 OPS+ and his .359 OBP last year, Luis Gonzalez also impressively had 56 BB compared to 56 K last year. That's impressive to me, and that is indicative of his ability to have another good year next year. But if we can get a solid defensive 3B with even league average offensive numbers (Rolen even if he is not totally full strength offensively) that would help this team considerably more than an average offensive LF that isn't too good at defense.

[DrWood]

I think it's a stretch to think that gross/dillon could do as well in lf as gonzo, green, or lofton. lofton and green seem to make a lot of sense to me. gonzo not so much. Lofton might move hall to LF as he's still a fine CF.

[RU Rah Rah]

FWIW, Green does have 11 homers in 19 games at Miller Park (including, of course, the insane 4-homer, 19 TB game in '02).

[JohnBriggs12]

For whatever reason Melvin has shown no interest in any free agent outfielders. Personally, I believe that Green at 35 still has something left even if he's not the hitter he once was and could be a caretaker in LF until LaPorta is ready.

 

My guess is Melvin doesn't want to look bad by letting Jenkins go and then signing a replacement who on paper not a huge upgrade.

[hauser42]

For whatever reason Melvin has shown no interest in any free agent outfielders. Personally, I believe that Green at 35 still has something left even if he's not the hitter he once was and could be a caretaker in LF until LaPorta is ready.

 

My guess is Melvin doesn't want to look bad by letting Jenkins go and then signing a replacement who on paper not a huge upgrade.

L-Gonzo and Green are options that will most likely be out there for a while. So might as well look for an upgrade before settling on them.

 

They should be cheaper than Jenks and even if they are the same player team would be saving money instead of letting Jenkins steal more money from the team.

[endaround]

Yeah Shawn Green stealing money is better!

[Jarjohm]

I think Gross/Dillon would put up comparable numbers to Green or Gonzalez at a lot lower price and a lot less risk of injury/breakdown. Gross also has a lot higher upside at this point than either of those guys. I'm not advocating a platoon in left and I still hope Melvin can add a bat to the line-up, but I don't think Green or Gonzalez would be worth the money for what would probably only be a marginal upgrade at best.

[hauser42]

Yeah Shawn Green stealing money is better!

 

He would steal less than Jenkins would.

[erbacaine04]

Yeah a plattoon of Gross/ Dillion would be fine...and very effective....280Ba/ .355OBP/ 20-25HRs..... plus they would actually do pretty well in the 2 hole...both make decent contact, can call a few hit and runs, you have no problems sending Weeks to steal a base in front of them.

 

I actually was thinking as a nice plan C or D is go after Brad Wilkerson... younger than Green and Gonzo... good pop still and a good OBP...plus has some speed, and plays a good Out Field..

[JohnBriggs12]

Platooning Gross and Dillon has one major flaw: It takes one of them off the bench on a daily basis. The only potential RH bat on the bench (other than catcher) would be Rottino. There are 2 lefthanded bats on the bench if you start Gross, one of whom can't hit (Counsell) and who's main job in that scenario is to replace Braun at third late in games and the other that is no HR threat (Gwynn).

 

Now you could alleviate that by bringing in say an Emil Brown to be the RH platoon or bench bat but again you'd have to spend some more money (probably around $2.5-$3.0 million).

 

The other flaw is that Gross frankly can't be trusted to put up numbers over 450-500 AB's that a lefthanded half of a platoon has to do. They tried using him in that role last year, but after two solid weeks, he stopped hitting.

 

It's much more cost effective to pay for an established LH bat. Green isn't going to cost more than $4-5 million. Cliff Floyd just signed for $2.75 million and he's pretty similar to Green.

 

They might be able to wait and see if a better alternative develops at 3B or LF via trade as someone suggested but they need a plan B in place.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'm with you all the way on the Gross/Dillon platoon - doing so really would limit the bench from game to game, and both players are most valuable as options off the bench (especially Dillon), not as everyday or straight platoon - type players.

I question whether it's more useful to look at getting a 3B or a corner outfielder, but something tells me that there's a trade on the horizon that's going to address the team's needs and more - there are too many teams looking for any kind of starting pitching, and Milwaukee is one of the few teams that can trade pitching away due to their depth of arms who can start in the major leagues. Once all the Santana and possibly Bedard trade flames cool off, teams that don't have either pitcher and who are still in need will start getting anxious to fill out their rotations.

[erbacaine04]

Platooning Gross and Dillon has one major flaw: It takes one of them off the bench on a daily basis. The only potential RH bat on the bench (other than catcher) would be Rottino. There are 2 lefthanded bats on the bench if you start Gross, one of whom can't hit (Counsell) and who's main job in that scenario is to replace Braun at third late in games and the other that is no HR threat (Gwynn).

 

Now you could alleviate that by bringing in say an Emil Brown to be the RH platoon or bench bat but again you'd have to spend some more money (probably around $2.5-$3.0 million).

 

The other flaw is that Gross frankly can't be trusted to put up numbers over 450-500 AB's that a lefthanded half of a platoon has to do. They tried using him in that role last year, but after two solid weeks, he stopped hitting.

It's much more cost effective to pay for an established LH bat. Green isn't going to cost more than $4-5 million. Cliff Floyd just signed for $2.75 million and he's pretty similar to Green.

 

They might be able to wait and see if a better alternative develops at 3B or LF via trade as someone suggested but they need a plan B in place.

 

Well geez if you go by a whole 2 weeks I am surprised you ever wanted to see Corey hart make it back into the Lineup last year. He had a bad 2 months...Even was benched in favor of Gwynn and Mench.... Yeah Mench actually played some against Righties to start the year because Mench had a few good games and Hart was struggling...

It took Gywnn to start struggling and us to start losing at the end of May to get Hart back in there...and then he started hitting.

 

Gross platooned the last 2 months of the season in the OF last year and was a huge spark to the team.

Our OF the last 2 months was this:

Vs Righties

Gabe Gross- Right Field

Corey Hart- Center Field

Geoff Jenkins- Left Field

 

Vs Lefties

Corey Hart- Right Field

Bill Hall- Center Field

Mench/Dillion- Left Field....

 

 

25 man roster

8 Starters- Weeks, Gross, Braun, Fielder, Hart, Kendall, Hall, Hardy

13 Pitchers- Sheets, Yovanni, Suppan, Cappy, Villy, Bush, Vargas, Mota, Torres, Shouse, Turnbow, Riske, Gagne

4 Bench players- Munson, Dillion, Counsell, Gwynn

 

I can see us carrying 13 pitchers... last year they carried 12 the first half and just got over worked and then kept 13 man bullpen the whole 2nd half until Sept Callups

So if we keep 13 pitchers then we only have 4 Bench Spots....5 bench spots if we carry 12 pitchers

So our bench is pretty light as is... I could see Rottino possibly making the team maybe Laynce Nix(has some pop) if they move Gwynn in a trade...

 

I am not a big fan of our Bench we have some weak hitting bench guys with Gwynn, Counsell, Munson, and Rottino.... Dillion is just a good average hitter... Gross is the only one with anything speical... and yost and Melvin talk highly of him and think he could be as good as Corey Hart..... When he is given regualr playing time then he hits great... and I dont consider 2 weeks to be regular playing time.

[DrWood]

that bench is pretty brutal.

[ILuvDaBush]

The Wood said it best. AYYY! But it isn't as if we're lacking impact bats in the lineup. That bench allows for double-switches with defensive replacements late in games. But Cirillo would look very "professional" at the end of that bench.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Gross was a huge spark to the team".

 

Not really. Gross did indeed have a nice stretch from August 16 to Sept. 4, but the team went 8-10 in that time. The rest of the year he went 7 for 45 (.156) with no HR.

 

I'm not trying to bash Gross, but his situation is a lot different than Corey Hart. Gross is a 28 year old outfielder that has never cracked a starting lineup. He's a great guy to have on your bench because when he's inserted in a lineup, he's capable of 2-3 weeks of very good play like he did in late August. That's what good bench guys do. But at 28, the chances to take a full time job don't come along too often have to be seized and you don't have the luxury of slumping that a younger player with much promise has. They were committed to Hart because of his age and potential and his tools which exceed what Gross has so they could suffer through his ups and downs trusting that he would rebound.

[Big Reed]

There are two houses for sale in my rural illinois community. both are asking for $300,000+. They are both real nice houses and both houses are worth $300,000. one has 9 acres of land included in the price. We are currently renting a house with the intention to build a $300,000 home. However, in this rural community, there have been 2 houses that sold for over $200,000 in the past 2 years. the average sale price for a house around here is $40,000. I like both houses. But I also realize the only person around here who could afford to buy either home is my wife. both homes have been on the market for almost 2 years. one of the reasons we haven't bought either house is we move a lot and don't want to buy the house and then not be able to sell it. So, we sit and wait to see if/when they lower their asking price. We know bot h houses wil l stil l be for sale in 5 months if we should decide to buy them.

 

Now take that true story and apply it to Gonzo and Green. they are both, nice quality players. but most GMs know they will still be available in the Spring. I'm sure a GM would sign either player if his asking price was the minimum. but at their current asking price, most GMs ar willing to wait it out and hope to get a discount in march. I' m quite confident once one of the two signs, the other will sign for about the same amount within a week.