Mike Cameron; Latest: One-year deal "on the verge" of happening according to ESPN and Fox

[Weirdos19]

Wow, this really would open the door for another deal. Having Hall for available makes a blockbuster a possibility.

 

Hall and Bush/Cappy for a frontline starter? Hudson? Blanton? Buehrle? Cain?

 

Hall for Blalock makes sense. There's our left handed bat.

 

Hall and Bush/Cappy would be inviting for a number of teams: Colorado(Hawpe or Atkins), Toronto (Rios), SF, Oak, Atl, Tex, Chi Sox, Twins, Boston, Tampa (Crawford!!!!), and many others.

[crewcrazy]

Just an interesting tidbit I noticed when looking at the differences between Jenkins and Cameron:

 

K/BB Rate Cameron '07 -- 160 K/67 BB (2.388)

Jenkins '07 -- 116 K/32 BB (3.625)

Menchkins '07 (Jenkins+Mench) -- 122 K/53 BB (2.302) *sloppy calc, more than 162 games combined

 

Even though Jenkins played less than Cameron did last year, his K/BB rate was significantly higher. I was slightly concerned with Cameron's K habit, but when you consider that he'll basically be replacing Jenkins, it doesn't seem so bad. When you look at the Menchkins platoon as a whole (who Cameron would actually be replacing, considering both are gone), Cameron struck out more, but also walked more (and that's even with the sloppy Menchkins calculation of just combining the two players' totals...a more accurate way would be to compile the numbers in the games where only one of them played rather than both).

 

The concerns about team OBP are certainly valid, but I think replacing Menchkins and Estrada with Cameron and Kendall would give the Brewers an upgrade there...it wouldn't be a drastic upgrade (neither Kendall nor Cameron are .400 OBP guys), but it's still an upgrade. I guess I'm starting to talk myself into a Cameron deal, but that just may be because I have too much time on my hands. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Dangers of the offseason, I guess. I'd just hope it's not much more than the 2 years/$20 million San Diego offered, but that's probably just a pipe dream. If he wanted to sign a 1-year "Prove It" deal like Gagne, though, I'd be down with that too. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif

[Gopher74]

Cameron on a reasonable 2 year deal, (like 5 Million per) and moving Hall to 3B is ok with me.

But we're talking about double that, right? It's going to be more like $10 million per year for . . . great defense, a zillion K's, low OBP, maybe 20 HR, and a 25-game suspension. I'm still not really excited about that.

 

I'd be shocked if he got anywhere near 10 million dollars a year.

 

The article that stated he turned down a 3 year 36 million dollar deal was from early last season before the suspension and before a bit of a down year.

 

My guess is he'd get a 1 year deal and try to sign a 2-3 year deal next year, or he'd get a 2 year 14 million dollar deal. Something in that price range.

 

[Ennder]

It would be $8-$9M a year minimum, teams have more money than they can spend right now.

[homer]

The ball will be flying in all directions out of Miller Park, but the strikeouts are going to pile up at the same pace as the home runs. Maybe that was the same formula that we used in 1982? http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1982.shtml

This quote got me thinking about '82 a bit. They were a beastly offensive team. #1 in runs, HR, and OBP in the AL.

 

Believe it or not, they were actually 13th in Ks. The only guy with over 100 was Gorman. Of course, K rates in general were much much lower in those days.

 

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1982.shtml

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Cameron is criminally underrated offensively by casual baseball fans because he has played in pitchers' parks since 2000, and because people still hate strikeouts for reasons I'll never understand. His OPS+ totals since 2000, in chronological order: 107, 123, 109, 108, 104, 114, 121, 103. Once you park-adjust, he's been at least a slightly above average hitter every year for a decade. He's also been quite durable over this period, playing at least 140 games every year but one. When you consider that he's still giving above average CF defense, and that CF has been sliding toward the more difficult end of the defensive spectrum in recent years (i.e. it's getting harder and harder to find CF that can give you league average hitting), it's hard not to like this idea.

 

Moreover, if it means Hall to 3B and Braun to LF, signing Cameron would be the best Brewer move so far this offseason, even if he does cost $10 million a season. If they can get him cheaper than that, then this would be the best move by a rather large margin.

[Big Reed]

we're being used! Today's KFFL rumor mill has the braves very interested in signing Cameron. they also say the braves are interested in trading for kotsay and als o patterson for CF.

 

 

 

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/mlb#446301 look in the middle of the page as part of the braves actions.

 

 

 

this looks like just a much ado about nothing. no wonder melvin had nothing to say.

[twobrewers]

Maybe we can package Bill Hall, Alcides Escobar and Cappy for a strong 3rd baseman or left fielder?

Short of Beltre or Ian Stewart - I think our best bet is just to move Hall to 3B.

 

Hall is better than most of the 3B options mentioned.

[twobrewers]

Melvin said attempts to trade for a third baseman went nowhere. The Brewers hoped to find an established third baseman and move Ryan Braun to left field, improving their defense.

Signing Cameron would involve moving Bill Hall from center to third base and Braun from third to left. Melvin said manager Ned Yost already had talked to Hall about that possibility.

"I think Billy's tired of moving and I'm not big on continuing to move guys around, either," said Melvin. "But I think he would do it if it made our club better overall. He'd still be a regular player."
Haudricourt Blog

That is music to my ears.

[And That]

I just read that blog entry, too. I have the "Hallelujah" chorus jangling through my head.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Some additional names circulating there that are acknowledged by the Brewers for the first time: LH-hitting corner outfielders Wilkerson and Green, in addition to Gonzalez, Lofton, and Pedro Feliz.

 

 

 

Of those options, Cameron to CF, Hall to 3B, Braun to LF is my preference. Lofton would be my second choice. Any option involving a simple swap of Green or Wilkerson into the old Jenkins role with Braun remaining at third doesn't make me happy...I could get on board if they're contemplating Hall to 3B and Hart in center?

[derflotr]

I just read that blog entry, too. I have the "Hallelujah" chorus jangling through my head.

Especially because of this:

 

"One way or the other, Melvin would like to get matters squared away in the near future.

"I'd like to get it done fairly soon," he said."

[aracko]

Has nobody but me considered the fact that Cameron might be signed to play a corner OF spot and Braun will stay where he is, Hall stays where he is?

 

 

 

Why is everyone predicting such a drastic circumstance? Isnt it just possible that Melvin wants to upgrade our outfield defense?

[And That]

I'm not sure if it was just a case of Haudricourt putting words in Melvin's mouth or framing his explanation incorrectly, but the above blog makes it sound like if the Brewers sign Cameron, he's going in CF (as he should - his value is mitigated a lot in LF).

[Ennder]

Has nobody but me considered the fact that Cameron might be signed to play a corner OF spot and Braun will stay where he is, Hall stays where he is?

 

 

 

Why is everyone predicting such a drastic circumstance? Isnt it just possible that Melvin wants to upgrade our outfield defense?

 

Braun is a poor 3B, Cameron is a good CF, Hall was only mediocre in CF (though I like his odds to be above average this year). The simple math suggests it is for CF, especially given what Melvin said about Hall.

[jaybird2001wi]

FoxSports' Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Yankees have joined in the Mike Cameron sweepstakes. But what is interesting is the Yanks want to give up Melky Cabrera even if they don't land Johan Santana. The potential Yankees signing of Cameron does not make any sense at all.

But it seems like the major holdup with the Yankees is whether they will be able to get Santana. If they are able to deal Cabrera to Minnesota as part of the deal for Santana, then they will likely sign Cameron. A-Rod gives the Yanks a vote of confidence for Cameron.

The Cubs seem to be interested as well, but now it seems like a battle between the Yanks and the Brewers.

 

The Cubs are on the fringe of the Cameron pursuit, and the Twins' interest could grow if they fail to land a center fielder in a trade for Santana. But Cameron is likely to sign with the Yankees or Brewers before the Santana question is resolved.

The weird thing is, the Yankees believe it will only take a two-year deal to snag Cameron away from the Brewers. Should we even tack on a third year, is it even worth it?

What is more interesting is how the whole Johan Santana trade situation could determine where Cameron goes now.

 

As previously mentioned, the Braves have shown interest in Cameron. But they have other players on their radar screen, including Mark Kotsay of Oakland and is also interested in former O's player Corey Patterson.

 

So here is what I think the scenarios will be:

 

Braves: They likely won't want to give up any players for Kotsay when they can just simply sign someone such as Cameron or Patterson. They lost Andruw Jones' bat, so they will maybe focus their attention towards Cameron over Patterson given Cameron's much better offensive past. So here is what I believe is the Braves priorities: 1) Cameron, 2) Patterson, 3) Kotsay.

 

Red Sox: The reason they are in this scenario is they are believed to be competing for the services of Johan Santana. The Twins will likely look for a centerfield option, given Rosenthal's report. Jacoby Ellsbury may still be on the Twins' radar screen of one of the players they covet from the Red Sox.

 

Twins: I am skeptical of Rosenthal's reports the Twins are exploring a potential signing of Cameron since they have Mike Cuddyer and recently acquired Delmon Young from the Tampa Bay Rays. How high the Twins have their current Centerfielder, Craig Monroe, will determine if they want an upgrade.

 

Cubs: The main reason I believe the Cubs could be interested in Cameron is they could use him in right field. They have already signed Japanese slugger Kosuke Fukudome to fill the void in centerfield while Soriano remains implanted in left field. I do not believe Cameron would like to be a right fielder at this point, given the value he gives in the barren market of centerfielders.

 

Yankees: The Yankees' interest in Cameron confuses me. If the Red Sox beat them out in the Santana sweepstakes, they will be able to retain Melky Cabrera. They have always seemed high on Cabrera and he did play solid in the playoffs. This move also seems to be in line with the nonsensical (is that even a word?) company line of signing older players while casting off its younger prospects. The only homegrown player they have right now is Derek Jeter. I just don't quite understand why the Yankees are interested in Cameron and wouldn't their interest in him dwindle to absolutely nothing if they don't get Santana? Makes no sense to me.

[TooLiveBrew]

Getting into a bidding war with NYY is pointless. If they want a guy, they can obviously sign him away from us. Best bet I guess would be to get a good offer in front of Cameron asap, and give the Yanks a push. If they're still messing around trying to figure out a Santana trade, perhaps the time is right to strike.

 

EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I want DM to re-examine DeJesus as an option for CF. If moving Hall is the new fix for 3B, then I want some more OBP from CF than Cameron. DeJesus would be able to fill in the #2 slot in the lineup with better on-base production than Cameron, which should compensate for any step down from Cameron defensively.

[Gopher74]

Cubs: The main reason I believe the Cubs could be interested in Cameron is they could use him in right field. They have already signed Japanese slugger Kosuke Fukudome to fill the void in centerfield while Soriano remains implanted in left field. I do not believe Cameron would like to be a right fielder at this point, given the value he gives in the barren market of centerfielders.

 

Fukudome is likely going to play RF for the Cubs, and as of now it appears as though Pie and Pagan will be the two battling it out for CF.

[jaybird2001wi]

Angel Pagan was traded this past Saturday to the New York Mets for pitcher Ryan Meyers and outfielder Corey Coles. So Pie has the job, supposedly.

Apparently the Cubs gave up on him after trying so hard to get him to develop. Felix Pie could be the next to go if he doesn't perform early on. The Cubs have been trying to develop both of them for quite some time.

[Gopher74]

Angel Pagan was traded this past Saturday to the New York Mets for pitcher Ryan Meyers and outfielder Corey Coles. So Pie has the job, supposedly.

Apparently the Cubs gave up on him after trying so hard to get him to develop. Felix Pie could be the next to go if he doesn't perform early on. The Cubs have been trying to develop both of them for quite some time.

I gotta admit, I was just assuming that Pagan was one of the guys that would battle for the CF job because he got the 3rd most AB's behind Jones and Pie there last year.

 

Anyway, everything I've read has said that the Cubs would prefer to use Fukudome in RF, but that he's capable of playing CF. I kinda equate that to the Brewers use of Hart, so I'd assume if they signed Cameron he'd be used to play CF, and Fukudome would play Right, not the other way around.

 

Anyway, I'd feel better if the Cubs went with Pie rather than Cameron. Pie didn't look like he was all that close to figuring it out last year offensively, while I'd think Cameron would thrive in that park.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Apparently the Cubs gave up on him after trying so hard to get him to develop. Felix Pie could be the next to go if he doesn't perform early on. The Cubs have been trying to develop both of them for quite some time.

 

What are you basing this on? Pie is very young, and had a tiny sample of ABs last year at MLB. He's their CF for at least next year. If the Cubs 'give up' on Felix, whoever gets him should be happy - especially since it'd amount to the Cubs pretty much giving him away if what you've said is true. Pagan was nowhere near the kind of prospect Pie is - I doubt they were held in the same esteem by Hendry.

 

I'm not sure what is meant by 'trying to develop' them. It's up to the player - sure, an organization can do some, but ultimately how good he will be rests with Pie. The reason Pagan didn't pan out is that he's not that good. I don't think him getting traded is any indication of what they'll do with Pie, but obviously I have no insider info.

[brewmann04]

Yanks vs brewers for Cameron any idea who will get Mike.

 

The Yanks new CF very soon Mike Cameron

[reillymcshane]

If I remember correctly, Cameron asked to be traded from the Mets because he wanted to play CF (after they moved him to RF for Beltran). So I doubt he'd sign with anyone with the intention of playing a corner spot. Plus, he's a great CF (defensively). It's where his value rests. As a corner OF, his defense isn't as valueable, and his hitting doesn't measure up to other corner OFs.

[clancyphile]

If I remember correctly, Cameron asked to be traded from the Mets because he wanted to play CF (after they moved him to RF for Beltran). So I doubt he'd sign with anyone with the intention of playing a corner spot. Plus, he's a great CF (defensively). It's where his value rests. As a corner OF, his defense isn't as valueable, and his hitting doesn't measure up to other corner OFs.

But Hall rebounding to a form where he smacks 40+ doubles and 25-30 homers makes him an average LF.

Cameron in CF, Hall in LF?

 

[mothershipconnection]

It's where his value rests. As a corner OF, his defense isn't as valueable, and his hitting doesn't measure up to other corner OFs.

 

 

 

Yeah, I really can't see any point paying Cameron to be a corner OF. There are plenty of guys you can get to play corner OF who'll put up a 100-110 OPS+ who aren't 35 and suspended for 25 games. If Cameron is signed and they don't put him in CF with Hall at 3B and Braun in LF, it'd be beyond stupid.