Mike Cameron; Latest: One-year deal "on the verge" of happening according to ESPN and Fox

[cheezscott]

If we add him for 10m a year, our payroll will be through the ceiling, any idea where we are at right now???

[aracko]

The biggest factor in Camerons favor and the reason I think he will be an excellent fit is because 8 of the last 9 seasons Cameron has averaged more than FOUR pitches per plate appearance.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It takes at least 3 pitches to strike out. I would much rather have a player who can put the ball in play.

That is very fair but its my opinion that 4 pitches per plate appearance is a huge stat. It allows you to get to teams Bullpens earlier. In my opnion that is where we can do the most damage. And over a long series working at those bullpens, especially early in the series really pays dividends.

[And That]

If we add him for 10m a year, our payroll will be through the ceiling, any idea where we are at right now???

Brewerfan salary page.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

My bad, I didn't see the post where he was offered a 2yr/$20 million extension by SD.

 

 

 

That's a pretty hefty price for 35 year old coming off a so-so season. But Jenkins got a 3 year deal at around $7.5 from Phillies so who knows?

[brewerfan82]

If we signed Cameron, I'd like us to also sign Lofton if possible. It would allow us to fill center while Cameron's on suspension as well as put together a pretty decent trade package for a 3rd baseman (Hall, Cappy/Bush/Vargas, Gross/Gwynn/Dillon for Rolen/Blalock or even a LaRoche/Ethier type package). Actually, if we could pull off an Ethier/LaRoche deal, we wouldn't need Lofton, but either way, adding a legit left-handed outfielder should still be a priority.

 

First 25 games:

LF Braun, CF Lofton/Ethier, RF Hart, 3B Rolen/Blalock/LaRoche (Bench: OF Ethier/Gross/Gwynn, OF Dillon/Kapler)

 

When Cameron returns:

LF Braun, CF Cameron, RF Hart, 3B Rolen/Blalock/LaRoche (Bench: OF Lofton/Ethier, OF Gross/Gwynn/Dillon/Kapler, wtih Lofton/Ethier spelling the outfielders against righties)

[RobertR]

It should be noted that Cameron turned down that extension before failing an amphetamines test and before there was apparently little interest in him this offseason. Two words to keep in mind: Jody Reed. It's quite possible that two years, $20 million just isn't out there now.

 

If signed to a short term deal I really don't have a problem. The Brewers will probably be improved a lot defensively, no worse offensively (the Jenkins/Mench platoon wasn't that productive), and still have a full farm system and excess pitching. For once, the free agent system seems to be working in favor of the Brewers.

 

Robert

[jaybird2001wi]

The potential signing of Mike Cameron reeks of Jeffrey Hammonds 2.0. I would not mind the signing if Melvin had a subsequent move up his sleeve to perhaps improve 3B or LF. Cameron is a strikeout machine.

[Crew2323]

The potential signing of Mike Cameron reeks of Jeffrey Hammonds 2.0.

I certainly understand the sentiment jaybird. But, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Hammonds signed to be our teams "savior" in a sense, to help put us over the top, to be one of our star players? Cameron's potential signing is a bit different. He's being considered to supplement the star power that we already have in Fielder/Braun/Hart etc. He's not being counted on to put up all-star numbers per se, but to be a final piece of the puzzle. It seems his defense is what is really coveted and his bat is just gravy.

 

Maybe I'm just way off.

[jaybird2001wi]

The one positive to the potential signing of Cameron is we may have another trading chip for a stronger 3B or LF. Maybe we can package Bill Hall, Alcides Escobar and Cappy for a strong 3rd baseman or left fielder?

[endaround]

Who though? I doubt Hall will be traded to St Louis. Beltre is unlikely to be available. Chavez has negative value. Blaylock isn't an upgrade over Hall and will cost more. Unless Toronto decides to do another complete retool and dumps Glaus, I just don't see a match. Maybe if Hall is the centerpiece of a Bedard-Mora deal.

[jaybird2001wi]

Why would we want Troy Glaus anyway? Are we trying to set a record for most players who have been implicated in the Mitchell Report and/or been suspended at one point or another? Melvin Mora? Isn't he getting old?

[Tbadder]

I'll say this: after reading the pros and cons here, I've probably changed my mind. Signing Cameron only makes sense if we've got a blockbuster deal on the board. Getting Either is not my idea of a blockbuster either. The simple fact is, is that we don't need Cameron. yes, we need the defense, but we don't need the power, we don't need the OBP, we don't need the strike outs, we don't need the right-handed bat, we don't need the age, we don't need the suspension.

 

 

 

Does anyone know if Cameron's a clubhouse guy? Is he the kind of guy who is knowledable and takes younger players seriously and helps them improve? Is he the kind of positive force on the bench that can buoy younger players when things go wrong?I'm looking for anything that helps me make sense of this situation.

[Crew2323]

Does anyone know if Cameron's a clubhouse guy? Is he the kind of guy who is knowledable and takes younger players seriously and helps them improve? Is he the kind of positive force on the bench that can buoy younger players when things go wrong? I'm looking for anything that helps me make sense of this situation.

From an ESPN article that spoke about his 25 game suspension:

Mike Cameron always had a squeaky-clean image.

He was best-known for hitting four homers in a game in 2002 and for a frightening, face-to-face collision with a teammate in the outfield three seasons later. He was a family man, and his kids would hang out in the San Diego clubhouse when they visited from Atlanta.

From that portion of the article, I can't say that there is anything to suggest that he is not a clubhouse guy. Hope this helps answer your question.

 

 

[endaround]

Glaus is the only top 3B that doesn't have serious health issues (Rolen, Chavez) that I can see that might be available that would need Hall to make it work (or would be an actual upgrade from Hall at 3B). Yeah Mora is old, its more about the getting Bedard part.

[brewers4eric]

I guess I'll try not to judge the potential Cameron signing until I see the ultimate impact on the everyday lineup.

 

Putting Cameron in center, Hall at 3rd, and Braun in left eventually puts a power source at every position in the lineup except for catcher. The ball will be flying in all directions out of Miller Park, but the strikeouts are going to pile up at the same pace as the home runs. Maybe that was the same formula that we used in 1982?

[Brian the Automator]

Putting Cameron in center, Hall at 3rd, and Braun in left eventually puts a power source at every position in the lineup except for catcher. The ball will be flying in all directions out of Miller Park, but the strikeouts are going to pile up at the same pace as the home runs. Maybe that was the same formula that we used in 1982?

The thing that concerns me the most about Cameron isn't the K's (most people know my stance on that, and it's been beaten to death, so let's set it aside), it's the lack of OBP. As far as I'm concerned, slugging can make up for OBP where individual players are concerned, but there are going to be a lot of solo homers if our lineup can't learn to lay off pitches that they aren't going to be able to do anything with. The defense excites me, but the deal doesn't excite me unless another move is made.

[And That]

Cameron's 3-year OBP is .342. While I'm not going to ignore is poor 2007, he's probably better than a .328 guy. Same thing for Bill Hall, whose 3-year OBP is .335, 20 points higher than what he posted last season. Cameron in center, Hall at third and Braun in left increases team OBP somewhat from last season, especially if Hall and Cameron bounce back a little. Strikeouts don't matter much to me either. The important thing is that Cameron still draws walks.

 

What bothers me is that his defense isn't what it used to be. He was 9th in RZR amongst the 19 qualifiers in center field (Bill Hall was last). He made an average number of out-of-zone plays (or best as I can see as average). Upgrade over Bill Hall? You betcha. Should we expect a 35 year old CF to hold his ground as an average CF? I dunno. That's why I hope the deal isn't for more than two years. All in all, though, the team gets better in OBP and fielding, so I can't argue with this idea too much.

[Invader3K]

What really would bother me about this, the more I think about it, is him missing the first month of the season. I don't like the idea of the team playing for a month, and then having a couple guys switch positions to accomodate Cameron. If this was a team full of veterans, I wouldn't care, but these are guys in their second or third year. We saw how long it took Hall to become acclimated to CF last year.

 

 

 

Of course, maybe I'm missing something or another deal could happen to answer all these questions, but right now I'm not all that excited about Cameron.

[derflotr]

I'm sure if Cameron is signed Hart will play CF in April, probably Gross in RF until Cameron is back.

[colbyjack]

I'm not sure if Cameron's OBP bothers me that much. He's always been around the 1 BB per 10 AB ratio that most prefer, and his career OBP (.341) is 90 points higher than his career batting average (.251), which usually points to a player that does a good job working the count to get on base when he's not getting base hits.

 

 

 

And during his career he does take more than 4 pitches per AB, so he definitely works the count. Like Brian, the strikeouts don't really bother me as long as he is getting on base, driving in runs and playing good D'. Kenny Lofton throughout his career has hit nearly 50 points higher, but his OBP is 'only' 20 points better. And Cameron is a similar threat (and efficient) stealing bases as Lofton is at this point in his career.

 

 

 

Yes, a left-handed bat is preferred. Kenny Lofton is ideally what the Brewers offense needs, but his defense is on the decline, he turns 41 in May, and is he to be relied upon to be the team's everyday CF? I think many to most still consider Cameron as an everyday CF, plus he is also a better option not only for 2008 but for 2009 and possibly even 2010. Aside from a couple of nasty on-field injuries, he has been rather healthy and reliable during his career, and as noted numerous times already, he has played pretty much his entire career in spacious outfields, which maxmizes his defense but also may take a toll on his offensive productivity.

 

 

 

I don't like that Cameron's splits against LHPs is significantly better than vs. RHPs, which goes back to the need for a lefty bat to help balance the lineup, but again maybe acquiring Cameron allows the team to trade Hall for someone that may help in that regard (such as Blalock).

 

 

 

I like the idea of Cameron and would be happy, outside of the 25-game suspension, to see him added. Any chain reaction defensively that adds Cameron to CF and moves Braun off of 3B is a good one IMO. If the idea is just to move Hall to LF and keep everyone else where they are, no thanks.

 

 

 

It also would allow the Brewers to be more patient with some of their young OFs. While LaPorta seems like a lock for AA, it certainly wouldn't hurt him to spend half of 2008 at Brevard County similar to Braun in 2006.

[JohnBriggs12]

I must have watched a different team in 07 than the rest of you. This team led the league in HR's by a huge margin. They were second in slugging percentage. But they were 11th in OBP and just 5th in runs scored. They also blew a ton of 3-5 run leads. Now some of that was due to pitching and some to some shoddy defense. But a lot of that was due to the inability to add on runs once the HR bats were silenced. Now Fielder had a great year, 50 HR, .618 slugging percent, 354 total bases. But he drove in only 119 runs. That's still a lot but with those number of HR (Manny Ramirez has never had that many HR or total bases in a season) and extra base hits, he should have over 130 RBI. The OBP problem of this team has not been addressed. Fixing it takes pressure off the pitching staff just as much (or more) than improved defense. It also takes more games out of the hands of our weak manager. Adding Cameron at close to $10 million and not dealing Hall for a hitter that gets on in front of our power guys, runs the bases a little, and doesn't fan with a runner on third and less than two outs makes no sense. If their only problem was defense at 3B, move Hall there (who's a natural SS by the way and still out of position), put Gwynn in CF, and move Braun to LF. But the problem with this team isn't just defense.

[Big Reed]

I would think from a salary perspective, the suspension is kind of nice to have. By being suspended for 25 games, the brewers would not have to pay him a salary for those games. So if you offer him a contract of $8 million, the brewers would save $1.2 million making his overall cost to the team a lot less. I like the idea of signing Cameron. What i don't like is a line-up of all power hitters. usually what happens with a line-up of power hitters is that 1-2 of those hitters end up trying to change their swings so that can get on base more often. i would rather see the brewers pursue a singles hitter who can get on base, steal a base and manufacture runs. i would rather see kenny lofton or brian roberts in our line-up rather than having another .250 power hitter. we all know my love for Carl Crawford, but that's not going to happen. I also liked Andrew Jones, but that's not going to happen either.

 

 

 

I'm going to assume cameron is going to demand more than $5 million a year. i have no problem with the cost, and we're not going to lose a draft pick for him. So al l we're really giving up for him is money and the opportunity to sign Lofton. because surely if we sign Cameron, lofton will sign elswhere I have concerns about his age and how he'll be used. Will he move to left? or stay in center? I also don't know how hall will take this or if it means hall will be traded.

 

 

 

My main concern is that Cameron fills none of the desires/needs Melvin expressed he wanted to fill. it gets pretty hard to take anything melvin says seriously when he tells us he wants a left handed bat and our two glaring needs are left field and third base, and then he spends $5 million plus on a right handed Cf with a lower than average OBP. Maybe Melvin is like me and believes OBP is an overrated stat. Either way, it's becoming harder to believe any of Melvin's public statements.

 

 

 

perhaps this is all a ruse just to get lofton to sign. Or it's part of some mega deal. i remember the last time the brewers acquired somebody and then said another deal will obviously follow, that next deal never came to fruition. Spivey was said to be an extra part who was going to be traded to Cleveland. that never happened. Whe n we acquired mench, we were going to trade jenkins to save salary. that never happened. We offered graff y arbitration in hopes the padres would still sign him or that we could trade him. we ended up keeping him.

 

 

 

i could see Hall moving back to the infield , and cameron playing two years in the outfield and laporta arriving in two years. But then you would have the problem of both Braun and Laporta in left. This would create a situation in 2 years of reshuffling people around once more. then again in 2 years , we may want laporta to play first base.

 

 

 

Signing Cameron is definitely a short term band-aid fix. but he fixes nothing that ails us. When i ask for an oil change, i don't want to spend my money on new shocks and tires.

[jaybird2001wi]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z317/jaybird2422/prod.jpg

 

 

I am amazed the mlb.com shop allowed this to occur, but this is what his jersey would look like.

[Ennder]

They were second in slugging percentage. But they were 11th in OBP and just 5th in runs scored.

 

 

 

This is true but we also lost 308 PA's of .305 OBP in Mench, 464 PA's of .319 OBP in Jenkins and 464 PA's of .296 OBP in Estrada. So if Cameron comes in at a .340 OBP to offset Mench and Jenkins we are still getting an upgrade. I don't think he is a perfect fit but I still think he'd make the team better if Hall moved to 3B.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Not only the immense defensive upgrade (also getting Braun off 3b) couldn't we count on better OBP & slugging from Cameron based on the Petco factor?