Miguel Tejada to HOU, Matt Albers, Dennis Srfate, Luke Scott, Troy Patton and Michael Costanzo to BAL

[berniebrewer4life]

Wow I just turned on ESPNEWS and saw the MLB headline and it said Orioles trade Miguel Tejada to Houston for Luke Scott, Michael Costanzo, Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate. My first thought was damn, there goes Luke Scott, my second thought was awesome, the Astros still have idiots in the front office.

I was sitting in a Sports Eatery with my brother, and thought the exact same thing. According to ESPN, they now have one of the better offenses in baseball. Yea that's nice, but it doesn't matter if they only have one Major League quality pitcher on their staff.

[Ennder]

Tejada is still slightly above average at SS but when you move Everett you pretty much kill his value. Everett is worth 25-30 runs a year with his glove at SS, move that to 2B and it isn't nearly as appealing.

 

I assume Matsui plays 2b now?

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Everett is just out of luck then or playing 3B instead of wigginton? This doesn't make much sense.

[trwi7]

I was sitting in a Sports Eatery with my brother, and thought the exact same thing. According to ESPN, they now have one of the better offenses in baseball. Yea that's nice, but it doesn't matter if they only have one Major League quality pitcher on their staff.

What is their lineup right now?

 

1. Bourn CF

2. Matsui 2B

3. Berkman 1B

4. Lee LF

5. Tejada SS

6. Pence RF

7. Wigginton???

8. Ausmus/Towles C

9. Pitcher

 

Well there's ESPN pulling stuff out of their you know where again. That offense is a slight upgrade from last year and they gave up all of their pitching. Honestly I'm looking at their pitching staff right now.

Oswalt

Backe

Paulino

Rodriguez

????

Yikes they may have a better offense but unless they do something with their pitching they're not going to be any good.

[fondybrewfan]

They may have upgraded thier offense but it still isnt even in the Top3 in the Central

 

Just compared to the Brewers

 

Weeks Bourn

Hardy Matsui

Braun Berkmam

Fielder Lee

Hart Tejada

Hall Pence

Gross/Dillon Wigginton

Kendall Ausmus/Towles

 

Does our lineup still completely blow theirs away? I think it does and it is about 1/10th the cost probably. And if we acquire even a decent 3B or RF our lineup completely blows away the Stros and our pitching staff is a million times better

[Thurston Fluff]

When looking at tejada, why not look at him like you look at hall?

 

I agree he could bounce back to his level of a couple years ago but there are differences between him and Hall. Hall is not on the downside of his career in fact he's about to enter the rime of it and switched positions last year to boot. Tejada's reason for decline seems to be more along the lines of him dogging it or his skills declined or he just had a bad year. Maybe a differant comparison would make that point better.

 

I didn't see anything worth while in what Houston gave up that was going to help them win next year or the years in the future.

 

For me the trade looks to be one of a franchise that hasn't accepted it's not going to be competetive simply by adding a high priced veteran. They may be better with him but that team is not ready to challenge the Brewers or the Cubs simply by adding one player the caliber of Tejada. So what sense does it make to spend that much on one guy to be close to a .500 record.

 

Albers is a nice young pitching prospect. he's so good that in baseball America's prospect handbook for 2007, he's listed as having a ceiling as high as maybe a #3 starter. Wow- ace material. Whoopee. as for their starting rotation, I think they realize they have a couple of holes, and they will find somebody to fill them before the season starts

 

I don't see how giving up a cheap young #3 type pitcher for two years of a high priced veteran on a team that is more than two years away from being competetive is smart. They may fill those holes but at what cost? They gave up a lot of their young players and have a lot of money tied up in Lee, Oswalt, Berkman and now Tejada so how are they going to pay the going rate for teh #3 or 4 type pitcher they'll need to compliment that lineup? It's not so much what they traded or what they recieved in return that has me questioning the move. It is the state the Astos are in at this time. This move looks like the state of denial.

 

One thing I think might play into this move is the perception that the central will be as bad next year as it was the last two. I don't think that is going to be the case. The Cubs are likely going to be as good, I think the Reds will be improved and the Brewers with one more addition should be poised to be very good. I would be very surprised if the division doesn't have at least one team close to 90 wins and another at least as good as the previous two division winners. I don't think Houston will be one of them.

[Ennder]

So the Astros are releasing Everett, think it would make sense to pick him up? Everett at SS, Hardy shifts to 3B, Braun shifts to LF. A lot of people seem to think Hardy will have to move to 3B anyway eventually and this gives us the best defensive SS in the game on a team that could really use defensive improvements and could afford the weak bat.

 

Anyone else think that makes sense? I'd be a bit worried about moving two guys to new positions at the same time as I'm not a big fan of moving guys around but they would be shifting to easier positions so it could be workable.

[joshjs]

Tejada is a definite upgrade, but the 'stros are upgrading the wrong position. The only way this makes sense for them, to my mind, is if they're planning for 2009 and'll make a huge push for Sabathia and/or Santana and/or Sheets. And I don't think it's wise to plan that far ahead.

[SoCalBrewfan]

? Everett at SS, Hardy shifts to 3B, Braun shifts to LF. A lot of people seem to think Hardy will have to move to 3B anyway eventually and this gives us the best defensive SS in the game on a team that could really use defensive improvements and could afford the weak bat.

 

Anyone else think that makes sense? I'd be a bit worried about moving two guys to new positions at the same time as I'm not a big fan of moving guys around but they would be shifting to easier positions so it could be workable.

 

That would be a quick way to upgrade the defense dramatically, presumably at two positions at once...it would be losing a lot of runs of offense but I think the chances are very good the team would be better overall. Back of the envelope here so correct me if I goof: Braun was -40 runs at third, Hardy should be at least average and probably better than that, meanwhile we go from Hardy who is average at short to Everett who is +30 or something crazy. So we save 70 or more runs allowed, meanwhile giving up something like 40 going from Jenkins / Mench to Everett. In contrast, a change to Crede is more like a 40 run shift defensively, and maybe 10 offensively?

 

As for the Astros, well I just posted this in the other thread...here's RS / RA for the Central:

 

Runs scored, allowed last year:

 

Cubs: 752 scored, 690 allowed

Brewers: 801 scored, 776 allowed

 

Reds: 783 scored, 853 allowed

 

Cardinals: 725 scored, 829 allowed

Astros: 723 scored, 813 allowed

Pirates: 724 scored, 821 allowed

 

Last year the Astros were no better than the Pirates. The new middle infield doesn't make them a contender, IMO, for all that they were getting very little offense from those positions last year...Tejada is good but they need a 90 run shift to be .500. Tejada might get them 40 runs more of offense, but he gives back some on D (anyone does compared to Everett). Matsui and Bourn don't help matters, particularly making all their outs at the top of the order. Their pitching staff looked horrible last year even with a gold glove caliber SS, and they've lost what little rotation depth they had. They have to add a few hundred innings of decent starting pitching before I consider them a contender.

[ILuvDaBush]

What's truly peculiar is that the Astros made very little attempts this year to sign their draft picks (ok, their draft picks screwed them over), which means that their farm system is completely bare, unless they trade Towles or Sapp. Maybe Hank Steinbrenner should have a talk with the Astros and tell them this isn't Fantasy Baseball.

[kmcasper23]

Just another terrible move by a Central Division team. First the Reds sign Cordero and mortgage their future. Then the Astros trade 5 players for an average at best player in Tejada. The Pirates are trying to trade Jason Bay. The Cards have not picked up any pitching. This division could belong to the Crew for a long time!

[Invader3K]

I think this was a good move by the Orioles...they know they're not going anywhere this coming season, so trade a star who was having a downslide with them, and re-stock on young guys.

 

I think the Astros are a mess right now. They seem to be one of those teams that doesn't know if they should be rebuilding or staying the course or what.

[Blazer25]

A lot of people seem to think Hardy will have to move to 3B anyway eventually

Really? Who?

 

I think that Hardy as a 3B is well below average offensively.

 

MLB Average SS don't grow on trees. He's average to slightly above deffensively and average to above offensively. Most teams would kill for a SS like that.

 

Move him to 3B and you've got an above average defender and a below average hitter.

 

I just don't see that happening. It's kind of the fantasy baseball mindset that's making this come about anyway. These guys aren't as interchangeable as some people make them out to be.

[Fatter than Joey]

Just another terrible move by a Central Division team. First the Reds sign Cordero and mortgage their future.... This division could belong to the Crew for a long time!

 

The Cubs will be good. -- While signing Cordero may be problematic in 2012 -- I think it will help the Reds a ton in 2008. I think the NL Central will be a 3 horse race

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not so sure about that, FtJ - Cincy's run differential was not pretty last year, and they haven't really improved this offseason. Cordero can't help that much. Will he make it tougher to beat the Reds? No question. But I think people are forgetting that the Reds gave up a bunch of runs in 2007 (853, by far the most in the NL Central).

[TheBrewer]

I've never heard anyone talk about moving Hardy to 3B. IMO, moving Braun to the OF and Hardy to 3B will create to players unexperienced at that position. Aka Billy Hall. While they could grow to do well there eventually, I think that would create more issues in the short term and I doubt Melvin would want to make that type of commitment

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm not so sure about that, FtJ - Cincy's run differential was not pretty last year, and they haven't really improved this offseason. Cordero can't help that much.

 

The Reds only gave up more than 11 runs than the Brewers did in the second half of 2007 -- I think the Reds are a team that is getting better, and the Brewers at best are treading water. Cordero will make a huge difference in 2008 as he will bump Weathers into the setup role and guys like Saarloos and Everyday Eddie won't be getting shelled. If Bailey pitches decent next year and guys like Maloney/Cueto contribute to the bullpen/rotation -- yikes. Not to mention that they have some decent young sticks in Votto and Bruce that could make a splash as well. The Reds could do in 2008 what the Brewers did in 2007 with Braun/Yo/Villy/Parra. --- the difference being the Reds rookies will be more nicely complemented by vets like Dunn/Jr.

 

I really like the Reds chances in 2008.

[Big Reed]

from the DList post / thread it said Melvin almost traded for tejada, but that Houston threw in more players. melvin kind of hinted at this possibe trade last week when he said he was talking to a team about a third baseman and we'd be surprised who it was. I have to believe if melvin was interested in tejada , Tajeda must still be pretty good. it also means the brewers still have a sizeable amount of money to spend. tejada even said he'd waive playing shortstop and play third base. tejada as the brewers ' third baseman. it would have been nice. Looking at the spare parts Houston gave up for Tejada , I wonder what Melvin offered - maybe Hall and vargas, bush or Villenuava and turnbow or Wise and mench?

[brewerfan82]

Yeah, that would have been a great pickup. I'm surprised by the way a lot of people seem to think Tejada has completely fallen off the wagon in the last couple years.

 

Miguel Tejada (2005-07)

.311/.362/.488/.851

605 AB, 87 R, 23 HR, 93 RBI, 42 BB, 72 K (per year)

 

Hard not to like those numbers.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's that some important non-counting stats have slipped significantly for him in the last two years, bf82. They indicate that 2008 is not going to be very kind to Miguel.

 

Also...

 

Miguel Tejada to HOU, Matt Albers, Dennis Srfate, Luke Scott, Troy Patton and Michael Costanzo to BAL

 

Houston just wouldn't part with that "a", huh? That'll probably pay off in the future http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif