Andre Ethier

[fondybrewfan]

I think acquiring a good fielding 3b would solve more problems than acquiring an outfielder. Dont get me wrong if we did trade for Either he would be a great pickup and would help us offensively and at least be average defensively, but the pick up really wouldnt help our overall defense at all. He would be replacing Jenkins and Mench. Offensively he might be able to hold his own but Jenks was probably a better defender. Thus picking up Either might hurt an already poor defense, even if he is average. I think trading for LaRoche or ROlen would be more beneficial by getting another bat and getting either a GG 3b or a solid to above average 3b. It remains to be seen how Braun would be in the OF but he certainly couldnt be worse than he is a 3b or worse than some other RF like Dunn or Ramirez. Fielding defencies can be hidden more in the OF, but when I think about how mush speed Braun has it makes me think he can be at least average, as long as his throws can make it from point A to Point B

[TooLiveBrew]

I like Ethier, but wouldn't we get similar production from a Gross/Dillon platoon?

Yes, but then we lose what imho is their greatest value - in that they're strong bench players. Apply them as starters - where they'd/ll do fine - and lose the depth. I'd rather keep Gross & Dillon as supersubs than dilute our depth.

 

Adding a 3B (as opposed to a LF) seems more critical the more I think about it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Gross has never been an everyday player in the majors. And while he does have some pedigree (a former 1st round pick), you cannot assume that at age 28 he'd put up .800 plus OPS playing as a regular in the lineup and even if we thought that, the Brewers don't. Remember after coming back from a stint at Nashville last year, he was inserted in the lineup against righthanders. After two hot weeks, he cooled off to the point (hit just .204/.317/.315 in Sept.) where they went back to Jenkins.

 

That was his chance and he (for lack of a better word) blew it. He's still very useful as a bench bat and fall back but they want an upgrade if they can find one. Eithier would be a definite upgrade.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

why not Brad Hawpe? Wouldn't the Rockies be interested in Capuano + for him? He's a bit older than Ethier, but is a very nice LH bat with good OBP and above average power. I linked his stats below. Even when you neutralize his stats, they are still good. Plus his middle name is Bonte, and that's cool.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hawpebr01.shtml

[brewerfan82]

I'd like Brad Hawpe, however, he's really bad against lefties, so we'd need someone to platoon him with. Maybe Dillon can be that guy, but I'm not as sold on him as other posters are.

[JohnBriggs12]

There is a glut of righthanded bats out there (hence no trade value for Mench) that could be paired with a Brad Hawpe or somebody else.

 

Emil Brown (expected to be non-tendered by KC), Marcus Thames (no place to play in that lineup) are two that come to mind. Dillon isn't a bad option either.

[pogokat]

wait, dillon isn't a bad option at 32, but gross is at 28?

 

i'd take gross 10/10 over dillon if we're dolling out ab's...i know you are talking about right handed sticks, but that's an odd double standard

 

dillon isn't young or proven...

[brewerfan82]

We're talking about potential platoon partners to hit lefties if the Brewers were to acquire Brad Hawpe. I'd also take Gross any day over Dillon, but his career .093/.269/.167/.436 batting line against lefties is atrocious. I'd still keep him on the roster as a 4th/5th outfielder and a left handed bat off the bench, but we would need someone to hit lefties in Hawpe's place in the outfield (.220/.295/.398/.693 career vs. lefties)

[sbrylski]

I think we all know Doug Melvin is going to pull a cheapish, LH, solid defense, high OBP, third baseman out of his butt and trade Capuano for him. We just can't seem to find this mythical third baseman for that very reason: he's up Doug Melvin's butt.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hey, I hear Kevin Mench is available.

 

Seriously, it sucks to admit this, but you have to Ned-proof the roster. Since he seems to be inclined to give a guy like Mench numerous (read: roughly even) ABs v. RHP, you can't afford to let that come into play. This is why I firmly believe the 3B acquisition needs to be able to hit RHP & LHP - guess I don't really care if it's a lefty or righty stick.

[brewerfan82]

This is why I firmly believe the 3B acquisition needs to be able to hit RHP & LHP - guess I don't really care if it's a lefty or righty stick.

I agree that, if possible, it would be much better to avoid platoon situations. With that said, here's a little cheat sheet of some of the recently mentioned players on this forum:

 

 Career Splits 3-Year Splits
-vs- R -vs- L Overall
Player Age B/T AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AB/BB AB/SO
OF Hall, Bill 28 R/R 262/310/461 270/350/484 272/335/495 10.49 3.79
OF Gross, Gabe 28 L/R 260/350/434 093/269/167 255/351/437 6.80 4.09

OF Hawpe, Brad 29 L/L 294/388/510 220/295/398 285/377/498 6.67 4.00
OF Lofton, Kenny 41 L/L 304/375/440 284/361/373 308/371/412 9.97 9.90
OF Scott, Luke 30 L/R 276/364/534 259/372/431 273/366/516 7.21 4.12
OF Ethier, Andre 26 L/L 292/361/475 309/343/426 295/357/464 10.54 5.81
OF Kemp, Matt 23 R/R 299/328/497 338/375/493 312/344/496 17.84 3.75

3B Ensberg, Morgan 32 R/R 258/350/456 284/406/530 255/375/490 5.33 4.24
3B LaRoche, Andy 24 R/R 235/384/353 200/310/200 226/365/312 4.65 4.43 (93 ABs)
3B Rolen, Scott 33 R/R 283/361/504 283/406/516 274/347/452 9.40 7.25
3B Blalock, Hank 27 L/R 292/358/504 226/280/349 268/327/435 11.76 5.40
3B Crede, Joe 30 R/R 253/295/440 273/330/460 262/306/458 18.14 7.72 

 

Of those, Hawpe and Blalock are the only ones I'd really want to platoon (and Hall could fill that role with either if we acquire both a OF and 3B). The more I look at it, the more I hope the Brewers take a chance on Ensberg at third and then dangle Capuano/Bush/Vargas out in front of Houston to try to get Scott. Returning Hall to a super-sub role would make our bench fantastic.

[dadofandrew]

I certainly would not worry about a couple dozen AB's from Gross when you have hundreds to gauge him by. However, he is a very nice reserve at the very least, so in that role, I'm very comfy with him.

[Oldcity]

Hall's really making too much to be a bench player, and to be honest, I'd rather give him a starting spot and give him a chance to bounce back. A better Hall would be great, and if he can get close to the 2006 version it would be just huge.

[brettac1]

I've got to think Ensberg is on that Mitchell list. The guy is way too good (even with last year's down turn) to be generating what seems to be zero interest.

[Oldcity]

Haudricourt mentioned in his latest article that Melvin has shown interest in Ethier. He'd be a pretty nice pickup.

[PeaveyFury]

Wow, I totally skipped over that blurb in the article. Thanks for pointing that out, Stevo.

[The Ignitor]

I want Ethier. A young lefty consistent against both righties and lefties (and that's playing in the generally tough pitching/ballpark NL West). As pointed out in this thread, his defense is fine.

 

I would not trade Hall to get Ethier (and by the way, I don't think Hall makes any sense for the Dodgers either now that they have a CF, a young stud 3rd baseman, Kent at second, and a full outfield). But I don't think it would take Hall to get Ethier. A starting pitcher + prospect would probably get it done. In my mind, barring a huge offer, Hall should not be traded as I think he'll rebound nicely this year.

 

I have high confidence that Braun will improve a great deal at 3rd. This year, he'll be an average 3rd baseman, next year he'll be slightly above average to good. Why do people assume moving him would fix all of his defensive shortcomings? Yes, you can hide more in the outfield, but he'd still be learning another new position and might have a year like Billy Hall had last year.

 

Under no circumstance do I want an overpayed, aging, oft-injured, fading right handed 3rd baseman named Scott Rolen. We do not need another righty for our lineup. Give me a switch hitter (Pierre) or a lefty (Ethier, Blalock) and let St. Louis sit on that fat contract and enjoy that LaRussa/Rolen distraction fest.

[twobrewers]

I've got to think Ensberg is on that Mitchell list. The guy is way too good (even with last year's down turn) to be generating what seems to be zero interest.

Not saying you are wrong. But he didn't generate any interest last year either.

 

Didn't Houston waive him during the season?

[TooLiveBrew]

I have high confidence that Braun will improve a great deal at 3rd. This year, he'll be an average 3rd baseman, next year he'll be slightly above average to good. Why do people assume moving him would fix all of his defensive shortcomings? Yes, you can hide more in the outfield, but he'd still be learning another new position and might have a year like Billy Hall had last year.

It's all about hiding the D - not 'fixing' him. I don't want to be condescending, but your hope on Braun's improvement is wildy optimistic. The more likely scenario would be him cancelling out his offensive production entirely by being left to play 3B for a full MLB season.

 

Give me a switch hitter (Pierre)

Everyone, quick - run!

 

Rolen's so good on D, that he'd only have to muster roughly a .750 OPS to be a significant improvement over Braun at 3B.

[Ennder]

A few years back we could afford to give Braun time to see if he can improve, not so sure we can now. Also Weeks is still one of the worst 2B in baseball and Fielder is below average at 1B. If Braun doesn't happen to turn into that average 3B our defense is going to be horrible again.

[DuWayne Steurer]

This year, he'll be an average 3rd baseman, next year he'll be slightly above average to good.

 

This belies the fact that any scout that's watched him play says he's not a 3rd baseman, and that he doesn't belong at the spot. Also, as it's been said before, he was historically bad last year. He's have to improve his defense 100% just to be bad at 3rd base instead of awful. If there were even a handful of people in the organization that thought Braun could even be passable at 3rd base, they wouldn't be gunning so hard to find a 3rd sacker.

[monty57]

I like Ethier, but wouldn't we get similar production from a Gross/Dillon platoon?

 

As I mentioned earlier, only 31 OF in all of baseball had an .800 OPS or better last year. Ethier was one of them, so I'm hesitant to believe that the platoon would match Ethier's production. Also, as was mentioned by TooLiveBrew, Gross and Dillon lose value if used as part of a platoon. Gross is a great LH bat off the bench and 4th OF to give Hart/Ethier (or whoever) a rest vs. a righty or if an injury occurs. Dillon can play a super-sub role if he's not part of a starting platoon. Plus, both are still pretty unproven and therefore probably more likely to disappoint than Ethier.

 

Given our excess of SP, I would be shocked if we don't make a move to pick up either a 3B or a LF. Gallardo and Villy won't start in AAA, so some SP need to be moved. I also agree with the poster (Peavy?) who said that it probably won't take trading Hall. I'd think some combo of Vargas/Capuano/Bush/prospects will get it done. I believe that Melvin will look for the best deal, and Braun will play wherever the new acquisition does not.

 

On a disturbing note, I did see that the Dodgers were among the front runners for Bedard/Tejada. That could hamper any possible deal with the Brewers.

[brewerfan82]

I like Ethier, but wouldn't we get similar production from a Gross/Dillon platoon?

 

You would have thought a Jenkins/Mench platoon would have produced much more than it did too (.261/.318/.453/.771 from our '07 LFs) and they were proven mashers on their respective sides of the plate. Ethier would be a big improvement over those numbers (.295/.357/.464/.821 career line).

[trwi7]

Give me a switch hitter (Pierre)

Umm are you talking about the left handed hitting Juan Pierre and his albatross of a contract?

[paulmolitor4]

I think somewhere it was mentioned that the Orioles were asking for Broxton, Kemp and Kershaw for Bedard and Tejada. Would the Brewers be wise to offer a package of Sheets and Hall for Ethier, Kershaw, and another prospect? I know Sheets and Hall are not Bedard and Tejada, but this scenario allows the Dodgers to hold onto Broxton and Kemp. I think the Dodgers are hesitant to trade away Kershaw though, as he is one of the top young pitching prospects in the game. Trading Hall would also require us to find another OF or 3B (possibly Rolen) Could you imagine a future fab four rotation of Gallardo, Kershaw, Villanueva, and Parra? The downside would be that Kershaw would have to start out in the minors, but this would definitely leave us with a solid lineup:

1. Weeks
2. Hardy
3. Braun
4. Fielder (L)
5. Rolen
6. Hart
7. Ethier (L)
8. Kendall