MIL signs Eric Gagne (1y/10M, +1M in incentives)

[Big Reed]

it would appear to me that the brewers actully won a bidding war for a quality free agent. This was one of those few times, the other team winced and allowed the brewers to win. As part of the rumors thread, it pointed out that melvin tried to get gagne last year but was outbid by Boston. I have to wonder what melvin offered texas for gagne's services. Also as part of the other thread a question was asked if this was the first boras client free agent signing. Dan Kolb was mentioned. But I believe Big ben McDonald was also a Boras client.

 

A lot of people bring up Gagne's troubles in Boston. I noticed part of his problem in Boston was that he had a lot of days off inbetween appearances. I suspect he'll receive a more regular pitching schedule wit h the brewers. Sometimes it's more important to look at a pitchers' game log rather than just his overall stats.

 

one of the biggest benefits of signing a free agent is that free agents attract other free agents. Players talk to each other and their agents. it looks like Prince may have talked Gagne and Boras into coming here. Suppan is doing his best to try to influence Rolen to coming to Milwaukee.

 

$10 million? that's not really a lot of money. and think about this real hard. It's not our money. It's Mr A's and the brewers' money. If he wants to spend $10 million on a releiver , that's ok with me. There is really no risk involved. If Gagne has a bad season, it's not going to cost any brewer fan his job. No mortgages will be forclosed. the brewers won't move to Orlando, Memphis or Salt lake City. All it will do is cost the brewers a championship. and we all know $30 million in total salary wasn't going to bring one either. If Mr. A wants to spend $80-90 million, it's his team and his money to spend as he chooses and who are we to argue he is spending it unwisely? He's not spending our money, and we are not his board of directors. We are just fans. As I said in the Jones thread, it's not wasteful spending. It's just, Mr A was willing to pay the asking price which was higher than many brewer fans expected. Melvin has confidence in the product he acquired. And if Melvin's wrong, and gagne is a flop, what have we as fans really lost? Win or lose, the brats will taste the same. This may mean the brewers won't sign Rolen. I have a very hard time believing the Cards' GM really wanted to trade Rolen in the first place. To me all the rumors surrounding Rolen seem to sound like Rolen trying to force a trade. No doubt Rolen would be a fine addition, as would AROD. if Mr A wants to spend some more money, I'm not going to say no, don't spend your money. the days of the brewers saving every last penny are over. Let the days of overspending for some quality players begin. At the end of next year, $10 million for a closer will seem cheap. On the plus side, if Gagne performs well, he may like it here and be willing to stay.

[trwi7]

I have to wonder what melvin offered texas for gagne's services.

Gwynn and Zach Jackson.

[SeriesFinale]

Of course it's not our money...my only concern is if it prevents the Crew from making some other move financially, because while it is Mr. A's money, Mr. A's money doesn't go as far as the Tribune's money, etc

[NeedMoreFans]

Wasn't it just a couple years ago that Gagne basically ripped on Milwaukee? If I remember right, he was with the Dodgers and was complaining on how they didn't spend any money. He said LA wasn't "like Milwaukee or Kansas City", teams that wouldn't/couldn't spend money on players. Jim Rome had a field day with this. Well, welcome to the team that won't sign any big names, Mr. Gagne.

[Picciolo]

I'm iffy on this. The 1-year is obviously great, but $10 million is a lot. Couldn't the risk and likely production be found elsewhere, and cheaper? Assuming Torres reports, I'd say it was likely one of our late inning guys would provide the same production Gagne could.

 

We just added $3-7M for Riske, $3M for both Mota and Torres, and $10M for Gagne. That's ~$20M for a bag of question marks, a lot of money. Could parallel's be drawn to the Orioles last offseason? They went from 2nd to last in bullpen ERA...to 2nd to last in bullpen ERA. $20M, and 25% of our payroll, is being spent on the most hit-and-miss type players in the MLB. Every season it is proven that a good bullpen can be built inexpensively and closers and setup guys can be made. We had a number of candidates before Torres and Gagne, who now are unlikely to get any coffee.

 

It's wonderful that this is a short term setup, but it could definitely effect 2009 payroll, a Sheets extention, a Hardy lockup, ect. - even other things this season such as Scott Rolen.

 

Building a bullpen is going to be a risk either way - through excessive spending or through the collection of "no-namers". Having the bigger names sure makes you feel better in your gut, but I'm just not sure its the right risk to take.

 

A couple thoughts:

1. This team is loaded with nowhere-near-arb players, so your 25% reference is highly skewed. Heck, Sheets & Suppan will soak up more than 1/4 of next year's payroll...who cares? Gagne will either have a monster year and be gone next year, or have a non-monster year and be gone. It has virtually no impact long-term on this team. Using your logic, our infield will only use a few percent of our payroll next year, so we need to upgrade, right?

 

2. For those that think the Brewers must be done because they just spent 10 mil, I'll take the over on that bet. I doubt Gagne has any impact on a Rolen deal. First off, Cappy, who's being shopped in these deals, will make in the 4-5 neighborhood next year. There's no way the Brewers would turn down a Cappy for Rolen deal over 8 mil per year -- Gagne or not. And anything more than Cappy wouldn't be worthwhile anyways. As for Ethier, he's only gonna make a few hundred grand next year. The Brewers will never be known as top 10 spenders, but I think some people around here need to get past the Selig years. This regime has spent money when it makes sense.

[PeaveyFury]

When did Adam McCalvy change his name to Carrie Muskat?

 

Gah, that's surprising.

 

Thanks http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

Gagne, Torres, Mota - all one year deals. Gotta love that.

 

OK let's see.. Let's assume a 12 man staff... Mota, Torres, Turnbow, Gagne, Riske, Shouse I think are locks for the BP.

 

Sheets, Suppan, YO and Villy are locks for the rotation.

 

Aquino or McClung can get non-tendered or start the year in AAA. I just don't see a spot for them.

 

I like Parra in Nashville to start the season, he is cheap and has options.

 

That leaves Cappy/Vargas/Bush/Wise -- 2 of them we need, 2 of them need to get dumped.

 

I don't have strong feelings about any of these -- I think any of them excluding Wise, would make a decent 5th for the rotation, or a long relief option. Wise seems like the odd man out here. I'd rather keep Cappy, as it would be nice to have a LHP in the rotation. I'd keep Vargas as long relief or rotation insurance, as I think Bush would be more attractive as trade bait. Although I'd trade Vargas the second showed interest in him.

 

I think these one-year deals have a huge risk to them as well. The thing that jumps out at me -- is that Gagne/Mota/Torres/Turnbow/Shouse (basically everyone but Riske) are all probably be gone in 2009 so we will get to do this all again -- and the price tag will be higher. I think PF is right though that this kills the Rolen deal -- if not for 2008, but 2009 when we have to replace all these guys.

 

I like Riske-Gagne a lot -- I still don't understand Mota/Torres -- a lot of risk for that $6.4M

[Fatter than Joey]

I have a very hard time believing the Cards' GM really wanted to trade Rolen in the first place. To me all the rumors surrounding Rolen seem to sound like Rolen trying to force a trade.

 

I agree. Rolen is mega-popular, and if he is healthy a great player -- If I am the STL GM, I try to get Rolen and LaRussa to hug it out, before I start trading players way below their value.

 

The Brewers will never be known as top 10 spenders, but I think some people around here need to get past the Selig years.

 

I don't think that this a fair statement -- I think most the posters here realize that we aren't in the Selig era, and I think most people are excited about the Gagne signing. However, I think that the reality is, is that the Brewers are still ballin' on a budget. Mark A. does not have the resources that a lot of teams have.

[ccbrew]

Wasn't it just a couple years ago that Gagne basically ripped on Milwaukee? If I remember right, he was with the Dodgers and was complaining on how they didn't spend any money. He said LA wasn't "like Milwaukee or Kansas City", teams that wouldn't/couldn't spend money on players. Jim Rome had a field day with this. Well, welcome to the team that won't sign any big names, Mr. Gagne.

I think a couple of years ago, he wasn't saying anything too far from the truth.

 

[DHarris34Phan]

Wasn't it just a couple years ago that Gagne basically ripped on Milwaukee? If I remember right, he was with the Dodgers and was complaining on how they didn't spend any money. He said LA wasn't "like Milwaukee or Kansas City", teams that wouldn't/couldn't spend money on players. Jim Rome had a field day with this. Well, welcome to the team that won't sign any big names, Mr. Gagne.

I think a couple of years ago, he wasn't saying anything too far from the truth.

 

Jeffrey Hammonds wasn't a big name?

 

[Blazer25]

This bullpen, even if Torres is as devastated as Junior Spivey was and gives us the finger, is now not so bad.

 

If Doug pieces together a package of Capuano and/or Bush, plus Gamel and/or Irribarren for Ethier, then we win the pennant!

Geno,

 

If I didn't know any better I'd say that was optimism flowing from your fingers...bizzaro world indeed!

 

 

 

I think this a great deal for a small market club. The best kind. Overpay a little for the flexability of a one year deal. It's the classic buy low sell high idea. I believe DM has done a great job with this one.

 

I also can't see the downside to any of the relievers we've added. Torres, Mota, Riske and Gange all have tremendous stuff. Most of their problems have come from injury related things or command issues. I think all of them are worth the risk. They could flop but they all have the stuff to be very successful.

 

I don't think anyone here can say the Brewers haven't been making a run at improving this off-season. Should be excited to see if it all works out.

[DuWayne Steurer]

ESPN is reporting it's 10 million plus possible incentives, making it worth even more.

[And That]

For the first time in my lifetime, the Brewers are both winning some games and looking to capitalize on and augment their roster based off the winning campaign. I am as amped for the 2008 Brewers season as I have been for any season, in any professional sport, of any team.

 

Edit: As I was just talking about with a buddy of mine, the Brewers' 2008 bullpen has the complete ability to be killer. Of course it could blow up, but when you have Eric Gagne, Dave Riske, Brian Shouse, Derrick Turnbow (non-pressure Turnbow), Sal Torres and Guillermo Mota all giving you 7th-9th inning options, plus Wise, McClung, Choate, Pena, Johnson, Bray, Cassidy and Stetter hanging around, you have have a good chance at a very good pen.

[DHarris34Phan]

ESPN is reporting that it's 1 year, $10 million contract with another possible $1 million in performance bonuses.

[homer]

I have a serious pudgy.

 

 

I can't believe the Brewers signed one of the Flying Gagne Brothers!! This makes my millenium.

 

In all seriousness.....as I said in another thread, this is a move that had to be made. Gagne is not a savior (and he may very well suck) but there is no way Melvin could go into 2008 with the closers he had on the roster.

 

This appeases a large piece of the fan base and only handcuffs the team for one year. Good move.

[tigerbrew]

Count me as another who really like this one year signing, good job by DM.

Moving to the NL central should help Gagne, and I truly believe that the Brewers Gagne's performance will be much closer his Rangers numbers than his Red Sox numbers.

Why should this stop us from getting Rolen?

I would be stunned if the Brewers had an 85-90 million dollar payroll next year.

I think the Brewers can afford a 85-90M payroll next season, so it wouldn't be shocking to me if they do get Rolen.

[Never Outhustled]

I think the Brewers can afford a 85-90M payroll next season, so it wouldn't be shocking to me if they do get Rolen.

I agree. This team has money to spend. They've been 1 of the most profitable teams in baseball since Mark A took over. This is because most teams funnel the money back into baseball operations, where as Attanosio used it to pay off debt (or basically used it to improve is worth). The numbers from Forbes aren't out yet for last season, but attendance blew away its projections, so it should have been another great year. I would think we'd all expect a great year at the gate next year, and the Gagne signing helps fuel that. Winning drives payroll north.

 

 

 

As for Gagne, I think its a terrific addition on a 1 year deal. He dominated with Texas last year, then seemed to wear out. I really hope the Brewers use him intelligently. Numerous times the Brewers used Cordero in 3 straight games last year. I hope they don't do the same with Gagne. Torres could give us another option to close 1 game. I'd rather have Torres try to save 1 game then use Gagne 3 days in a row, then have him be injured or ineffective for a month.

[MoneyballMan]

Edit: As I was just talking about with a buddy of mine, the Brewers' 2008 bullpen has the complete ability to be killer. Of course it could blow up, but when you have Eric Gagne, Dave Riske, Brian Shouse, Derrick Turnbow (non-pressure Turnbow), Sal Torres and Guillermo Mota all giving you 7th-9th inning options, plus Wise, McClung, Choate, Pena, Johnson, Bray, Cassidy and Stetter hanging around, you have have a good chance at a very good pen.

 

It's funny, I had this exact conversation with some family members yesterday. They were all pooh-poohing the moves, but I kept arguing that if these guys play up to their ability and stay healthy, we may have the 6th-9th innings absolutely locked down next year. It's easy to look at the struggles each has had (much due to injury), but just look at the upside here! This has the makings of a tremendous bullpen.

[igor67]

I am only slightly disappointed by the money because when this first started to look good it looked like he would come cheaper. As it stands now though it is a mistake to vaguely wish cast at other options. There are not likely to be very many other opportunities for spending money this winter. Given the current growth of the game, and the Brewers own payroll plus a few years of debt servicing already in the books this is no longer a significant concern. At the people level economics the team has tranisitoned from a place where the debt was on the order of a large mortgage payment to something more akin to a modest car payment. And given tax advantages it probably doesn't make sense for them to shrink it more. At the same time it is clear that we have a lot of young talent that we want to try and keep as long as possible, so not tying ourselves going forward is great. And I think the best returns for the final piece to the puzzle come from finding an OF not Rolen.

[JJHardy7]

I agree. This team has money to spend. They've been 1 of the most profitable teams in baseball since Mark A took over.

 

I would just caution thoughts like this in my mind. Mark A is the owner of the Brewers baseball team/business. If I take being a fan, etc out of it (which some owners can and some don't), at the end of the day I want to make money off of my investment. The only question is -- how much? What is the cost benefit? I think based on a signing like this Mark A is looking at making some playoff revenue. Just because Mark A has some money laying around doesn't mean he has to or wants to spend it -- unless it helps his investment out.

[recte44]

Wasn't it just a couple years ago that Gagne basically ripped on Milwaukee? If I remember right, he was with the Dodgers and was complaining on how they didn't spend any money. He said LA wasn't "like Milwaukee or Kansas City", teams that wouldn't/couldn't spend money on players. Jim Rome had a field day with this. Well, welcome to the team that won't sign any big names, Mr. Gagne.

"I don't want to be here if we're just going to play kids and rebuild. Yeah, I put my name on a contract, and I respect that. But the Dodgers' logo was on top of that contract -- not the Milwaukee Brewers or the Las Vegas 51s."

--Gagne, October 2005

[1992casey]

TheCouga23 wrote:

But how do AAA innings wear you down less than MLB innings?

They don't, but the AAA season is shorter meaning fewer games. Also in the minors you can be more creative with how you use pitchers since the emphasis isn't to win game, but rather to build up players to be MLB ready...

Toss in that pitchers are much more likely to face challenging situations in major league games. Tough situations are harder on arms than coasting along.

[The Ignitor]

I'm sorry, but I'm sick of all the Scott Rolen talk. I want Andre Either, a younger lefty bat. We don't need a super expensive, oft injured, righty for our lineup. Braun will improve on D at 3rd, and Either will (who has pretty good numbers considering he plays in the generally pitcher heavy NL West) provide a consistent bat against righties and lefties from the left side. Capuano and a prospect to the Dodgers for Either. Don't trade Sheets (it's a contract year, and we're a contender, so let's hope to ride out a great year from Sheets and then take out draft picks next year when we lose him). Don't trade Hall (he'll rebound this year). Trust that the four new faces in the pen will find a way to create a highly competitive bullpen. Get on board folks, 2008 will be a great ride, particularly if we get at OBP lefty outfielder rather than a fading overpaid 3rd baseman.

[splitterpfj]

Given what the costs have been, every one of these additions to the bullpen have made great sense. We can't have it both ways, people either complain because the team isn't keeping up with the Jones', or they complain because the team is spending money, and therefore will not be able to spend money.

 

I think it's time to let the really rich guy spend his money however he sees fit, the man manages billions in the global marketplace, he probably knows what he can afford a little better than any of us do.

 

This bullpen has a chance to be absolutely outstanding, and even allowing for a couple of bombs among the acquisitions, it should have no trouble being at least solid. First off, these are very talented pitchers that are coming in here, all of whom have had MLB success, these are not the "Land of Opportunity" days in Milwaukee anymore, you will not see 6-year minor league free agents starting for this team. Beyond that, it's likely that the team will get more innings out of the starting pitchers this year, this is shaping up to be - better bullpen talent + lighter workload = fewer blown leads.

 

This team lost the division last year somewhere around the bottom of the 7th inning, Melvin has grabbed every possible bullpen solution that wasn't nailed down. Get that player who allows Braun to move off of third base, choose wisely on which guys stick in the rotation...and swing hard.

[Invader3K]

I think it's time to let the really rich guy spend his money however he sees fit, the man manages billions in the global marketplace, he probably knows what he can afford a little better than any of us do.

Exactly. People are acting like the Brewers are the Florida Marlins. They have a good newer stadium that generates tons of revenue, and have an owner who isn't named "Selig".

 

No one here is privy to the Brewers finances, or Attanasio's bank account, as far as I know. People are being somewhat naive, in my opinion, if they think the Brewers are truly strapped for cash. Everyone in the know is saying "baseball is rolling in cash" right now, more than ever. The Brewers are part of that. This signing is the kind of thing that real contenders who actually are trying to win something do. Would anyone seriously rather have seen the Brewers go into the season with their bullpen, as was, minus Gagne? Yes, 10 million is a lot for a reliever for one year, but I think I'd rather take that than 2 yrs/$16 million or something. That's what it would have taken otherwise, realistically.