Should Weeks be the 3rd Baseman

[DrWood]

Seems like Rickie's biggest problem is making the short throws. He's got a strong arm. Seems like Braun's biggest problem is getting his footwork right for making the long throws.

[rluzinski]

Neither Weeks nor Braun gets to very many balls, so I don't think it's just their arms that is the problem.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hardy will be a 3rd baseman sooner or later, but I doubt Weeks ends up there.

[rluzinski]

Why would Hardy have to be moved to 3B?

[hauser42]

Hardy will be a 3rd baseman sooner or later, but I doubt Weeks ends up there.

 

Who is going to be the SS if you dont think Hardy is going to be moved?? Hardy is a above average SS.

 

Braun gets to balls dont know how that can be said. He has some range and has shown he can come up with a lot of balls. RLuz do have some info on that??

[Fatter than Joey]

Braun gets to balls dont know how that can be said.

 

Both Braun and Weeks have pretty weak range factors.

[rluzinski]

Statistically, all the defensive metrics agree that Braun was atrocious in every way last year. For an example, here's the defensive metrics the Hardballtimes.com uses (Revised Zone Rating, RZR):

Braun

Year	Tm	Pos	Inn	PO	A	TE	FE	FPct	DPS	DPT	BIZ	Plays	RZR	OOZ
2007	MIL	3B	945	61	161	16	9	.895	12	0	225	127	.564	21

He was credited with 16 throwing errors, which only starts to account for that .564 RZR. Even if you take away 6 of his 16 throwing errors, he still has the lowest RZR among qualified 3B last year.

 

As for his range, he only made 21 outs on balls that were considered "out of his zone" (which is defined as a play that an average 3B would make a play on less than 50% of the time). Even if you adjust for the fact that Braun had less innings than an everyday starter, 21 plays is very low:

 

MLB 3B OOZ

 

Anecdotally, I felt that he allowed far too many liners down the line to become doubles and I don't feel like he did very well ranging into the hole, either. Too many memories of Braun getting in a position to make a play in the hole, only to deflect the ball or miss it altogether.

 

His arm might be his biggest defensive weakness but it's not his only one, IMO.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why would Hardy be moved to 3B?

 

His range is below average. In fact his range factor of 4.0 was lowest among NL shortstops with at least 1,000 innings played.

 

Who replaces him?

 

Baseballamerica projects Escobar there in 2011. Personally, I think Brent Brewer eventually is the guy 3 or 4 years down the road. Yeah he made a ton of error last year, but he was just 19 playing full season ball.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Weeks doesn't appear to have the arm. Don't mess with success...keep him at 2B.

[Invader3K]

The bottom line is the Brewers have a bunch of young guys still learning to play their positions at the MLB level. It takes more than a season, sometimes, for a player to make the step up defensively.

 

I couldn't imagine Hardy moving to 3B, at least any time soon. He's basically the Brewers best infielder, defensively.

[rluzinski]

Hardy's range factor was fine the year before (not that I would advocate using range factor). Had he qualified, he would have been among the leaders. Am I to believe that he went from great to bad in one year? In actuality, range factor is a junk stat and one year's worth of any defensive metric isn't the best at measuring a player's true talent.

 

Hardy's defense was good in 2006 and he had a reputation as a good defender prior to 2007. His defensive talents may have been overstated as a minor leaguer but to suggest he'll have to be moved is premature, to say the least.

[DrWood]

Weeks doesn't appear to have the arm. Don't mess with success...keep him at 2B.

 

I don't know where that comes from. Weeks has a strong arm. His biggest problem with errors seemed to be those short throws.

[hauser42]

Statistically, all the defensive metrics agree that Braun was atrocious in every way last year. For an example, here's the defensive metrics the Hardballtimes.com uses (Revised Zone Rating, RZR):

Braun

Year	Tm	Pos	Inn	PO	A	TE	FE	FPct	DPS	DPT	BIZ	Plays	RZR	OOZ
2007	MIL	3B	945	61	161	16	9	.895	12	0	225	127	.564	21

He was credited with 16 throwing errors, which only starts to account for that .564 RZR. Even if you take away 6 of his 16 throwing errors, he still has the lowest RZR among qualified 3B last year.

 

As for his range, he only made 21 outs on balls that were considered "out of his zone" (which is defined as a play that an average 3B would make a play on less than 50% of the time). Even if you adjust for the fact that Braun had less innings than an everyday starter, 21 plays is very low:

 

MLB 3B OOZ

 

Anecdotally, I felt that he allowed far too many liners down the line to become doubles and I don't feel like he did very well ranging into the hole, either. Too many memories of Braun getting in a position to make a play in the hole, only to deflect the ball or miss it altogether.

 

His arm might be his biggest defensive weakness but it's not his only one, IMO.

 

Thanks RLuz on the stats. I know the stats dont show it but I think he can become an average 3B.

 

JB 12 Hardy as always been considered a solid def SS. He gets very little attention since he only makes the routine plays and not highlight plays. He is the anti- Bill Hall does all the little things but doesn't make the huge hit or play to get on Baseball tonight.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Hardy's range factor was fine the year before (not that I would advocate using range factor). Had he qualified, he would have been among the leaders. Am I to believe that he went from great to bad in one year? In actuality, range factor is a junk stat and one year's worth of any defensive metric isn't the best at measuring a player's true talent.

 

Hardy's defense was good in 2006 and he had a reputation as a good defender prior to 2007. His defensive talents may have been overstated as a minor leaguer but to suggest he'll have to be moved is premature, to say the least.

 

Well, he did suffer a pretty horrific ankle injury that easily could have effected his range. Combine that with him bulking up a bit, could have severly impacted his range one just one year to the next.

 

Certainly one year is not enough to know for certain if his range is limited, but given the circumstances it's possible.

 

Anecdotally, I can't remember Weeks or Hardy making any diving stops and throwing somebody out. They just don't seem to make those webjem type plays. At least not last year. They both seem to play a little stiff.

[TURBO]

jeez, why does everyone want to have so many guys changing positions?

 

stop the insanity....................please?

[rluzinski]

Certainly one year is not enough to know for certain if his range is limited, but given the circumstances it's possible.

 

Absolutely. It's not like Hardy has a huge MLB track record to begin with. I just can't begin to understand how anyone could predict that moving Hardy from SS is a forgone conclusion. We have no idea of knowing. I personally don't see it happening for a long time.

[Blazer25]

His range is below average. In fact his range factor of 4.0 was lowest among NL shortstops with at least 1,000 innings played.

That statement right there is why you should take most of those defensive metric and throw them in the fire. They're junk.

 

Hardy's got about average range for a MLB SS but he's also got one of the quicker transfers in the league. He's also got above average hands and a slightly above average arm. He's solid and moving him to 3B would not only negate some of his defensive ability but also take away his value as an offensive player. As a 3B he's below average with the bat, at SS his average to slightly above if he continues on his success this year.

 

I know you stat lovers might get bent out of shape, but really defense is one area where scouting has a huge advantage in player evaluation. The offensive side I think is a wash scouting/stats.

 

I just think there are too many variables to defense that one needs to see with the naked and trained eye that can't be explained by a formula.

 

 

 

Personally, I think Brent Brewer eventually is the guy 3 or 4 years down the road. Yeah he made a ton of error last year, but he was just 19 playing full season ball.

I saw Brent Brewer play 10+ games in HS. He's going to end up in CF. Tremendous athlete with cast iron hands.

[And That]

The Brewers are committed, at least for now, to Brewer at SS. There are some comparisons to be made between him and a young Bill Hall. If anyone supplants Hardy in the next few years, it'll be Escobar, who will immediately become a gold glove candidate when he starts in the bigs. Hardy could be a good defensive 3B, but his value there would become predicated on his offense. It may not be an issue anyway, given he's already entering arby. I could see him being traded two offseasons from now, with Escobar slipping in there.

[Boy Jeenius]

We go through two years of hades watching him grow into a fine defensive 2B, he's just as he's becoming proficient, and want to move him. Extraordinarily curious.

[owbc]

Maybe we should move Prince Fielder to catcher. He'll be the best offensive catcher in baseball history and as a team player, I'm sure he'll call a good game. Plus, he'll never lose a play at the plate. To top it off, Jason Kendall has some experience playing 1B...

[DrWood]

We go through two years of hades watching him grow into a fine defensive 2B, he's just as he's becoming proficient, and want to move him. Extraordinarily curious.

 

I realized I was thinking "outside the box" with my suggestion. it just made too much sense to me. a guy with an excellent arm who has had trouble making the short throws playing 2b which is the worst-case scenario for such a guy. excellent straight-line speed, so he should be able to charge bunts. I'm wondering why he was never considered at 3b.

[logan82]

DrWood wrote:

I'm wondering why he was never considered at 3b.

His bat, if he plays to his potential ,would be incredible at 2B and merely average at best at 3B. We also weren't trying to "win now" when he came up so we had time to let him mature in the majors.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Rickie's bat plays to potential, it's fantastic at literally any position in MLB. But a one-word response to the original post's question: No.

[Blazer25]

The Brewers are committed, at least for now, to Brewer at SS. There are some comparisons to be made between him and a young Bill Hall.

I think a more apt comparison to Brewer is Justin Upton and the D-Backs wasted no time making an OF out of him.

 

The scary thing is Upton has better hands/ infield tools than Brewer.

 

Brent Brewer on the IF is a classic square peg/ round hole scenario. The Brewers scouting dept does a great job with amateur players on the offensive side. Defense...not so much.

[TheCrew07]

I'm surprised Agent39 didn't respond to your post Blazer... must be on the wrong forum for him.