Salomon Torres to MIL, Kevin Roberts & Marino Salas to PIT / Latest: Torres WILL report.

[Oldcity]

Trwi- Then it would be David Marcus.

 

And what the? Torres is acting like the concept of a trade is entirely new to him.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"The bullpen is better than last year even though we didn't blow way too much money on a 'proven closer'."

 

When you're alone with your thoughts, do you honestly, in your heart, believe this, Ennder? I know that spending above-average money on an above average player (in this case, a closer) is an offense punishable by water-boarding. And thankgod Doug played it safe and didn't do that this winter, leaving us with Turnbow as our closer.

 

But do you think our pen is better than last season's? I look back with some relative fondness on the 2007 pen: Cordero closing, Linebrink, a Shouse in his 30's, Villanueva before becoming a starter, hell, even Ray King was effective in the times he was used. And that was still a below average pen. Now, Brewer fans are already rationalizing that Turnbow vs. Cordero is great, because we didn't overpay for a closer. Riske is fine (in fact, "plus fastball or no, HE should be closing), and MAYBE Torres can bounce back in his late 30's after some overuse. But 2008's bulpen is, at best, equal to 2007's and, in a few cases, worse.

 

"Geno, would you advocate dealing Rickie Weeks for a player such as Valverde or Street? That's the level of what other teams are asking for if you want their closer. "

 

If we sign a Tadahito Iguchi for 2B, or even move Billy to 2B, then yeah, maybe.

 

Rickie's not much of a second baseman, but we'd settle our closer's slot with either of these 2 guys. And to me at least, having a reliable lights-out closer, instead of Turnbow, will preserve a lot more games vs. the difference between Weeks vs. Iguchi.

 

As I've mentioned before, I LIKE the Torrres trade. Instead of holding on to nuggets who'll never pan out, we turned them into a recently-great reliever. Believe me, on the list of moves Doug has(n't) made this winter, I'd say this one's the best. But then again, that's like awarding the Best Wal-Mart in America.

 

"Thank god for Geno, you need a fanclub or something, man. That said, tough deal to pass up ... I guess I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself that the $9.6 million being spent on the mediocre boys in Club 3.2M is smarter than having a go-to bullpen ace at $7M with a couple of promising $1.25M young, live bullpen arms to complement"

 

First of all, thanks for the kind words, valpo.

 

I just feel you get more bang for your buck if you bring in a real closer for around $7 million, plus a tough setup man at around $3 million, than getting a ton of so-so relievers and defiantly tell the world, "We're fine!"

 

OK, I'd even allow that a pen with Riske closing, set up by Torres, might be alright. But we know Ned will never do that. The Book of Managerial Strategy, published in 1974, decrees that closers can only be used on the road in the bottom of the 9th, and that closers must have a plus fastball with "closer's stuff."

 

So, in an effort to adapt to our narrow-minded and securely-tenured manager, we SHOULD be OK with, godforbid, overpaying on a fireballing closer, especially when our key talent is so affordable.

 

There's a lot of good young talent out there, in the trenches every game wearing the navy and gold. But leaving the most crucial pitching aspects of the game to Derrick Turnbow, because Doug couldn't pull the trigger on a transaction for someone better, is like finally getting a date with Jessica Alba, only you show up wearing Zubaz, driving a Chevy Cobalt.

[dadofandrew]

I find it odd folks seem to think you can get a proven closer for $7M. Unless Doug has a time machine, that is pretty unlikely.

 

As others have pointed out, the difference between a proven closer and a good set-up man is 40 save opps, see Kevin Gregg of '07, or Bob Wickman ages ago.

[trwi7]

Umm so if he does decide to retire does that nix the trade and would we get Salas and Roberts back?

[MNBrew]

And what the? Torres is acting like the concept of a trade is entirely new to him.

No, I think Torres is acting like a responsible father & husband who knows he's had a good run in the major leagues and fully appreciates both his baseball career and how difficult a move could be on his wife & kids. They've hung out the family shingle in Pittsburgh and obviously like it there. Torres clearly understands the family implications and takes them seriously enough to consider all angles of this carefully.

It's obvious baseball's really important to him. But it's the off-season and this is the time the players can focus that much more on their families. And for some, during this time, the prospect of being further away from their families has that much less appeal. Really this isn't much different than the general point of many of Jeff Cirillo's comments last winter, as well as Robin Yount's reason for leaving his coaching position.

 

"Carefully consider" and "decide to retire" are not synonymous. I think the no-brainer is to let Torres think it through and hope he'll come around.

[dadofandrew]

That would be up to the Pirates.

 

Or, they could sub Grabow.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[trwi7]

That would be up to the Pirates.

 

Or, they could sub Grabow.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I think you mean Damaso Marte. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[brewcrewreview]

Lance Allen was actually professional wrestling tonight, believe it or not.

[danzig6767]

I find it odd folks seem to think you can get a proven closer for $7M. Unless Doug has a time machine, that is pretty unlikely.

 

As others have pointed out, the difference between a proven closer and a good set-up man is 40 save opps, see Kevin Gregg of '07, or Bob Wickman ages ago.

 

Speaking of Gregg, i heard on the radio that he's now the highest paid player on the Marlins roster at a whopping 2.5 million. Both Mota/Torres would be their highest paid players is they were on their roster.

 

As for closers, it is true that very often a closer just ends up coming from either being a failed starter or a setup man that finally gets a shot to pitch the 9th inning instead of the 8th. I'm not going to panic yet if we don't end up getting a more proven option at closer, i've seen to often guys like Kolb, Doug Jones, Turnbow two years ago, or Wickman come out of nowhere to be effective in that role. With that said, it does make me nervous though because for every closer that comes from never doing it to doing it well right away, there are also all the Arthur Rhodes types of failed experiments that costs a team multiple wins.

 

When we had garbage teams with no hope to contend, i never sweated closer experiments because paying good cash to a closer made zero sense and if the experiment would've failed, an extra 3-4-5 losses meant winning say 70 wins vs 74, who cares. In a tight playoff race, those 2-3-4-5 extra losses via blown saves can cost a playoff berth.

 

Melvin obviously would pay good cash if a proven closer was out there right now given he offered Cordero 42 million, there isn't though. I can't rip him for not trading for a Street or C.Cordero without knowing first what was asked in return besides the Weeks rumor that the Nats wanted him. I'd veto that immediately.

[tigerbrew]

Just read about it in MJS, nice trade by DM to improve the bullpen. The article also mentioned about his elbow problem...

Torres spent time on the disabled list in both June and August with elbow inflammation. He appeared in 56 games, going 2-4 with a 5.47 earned run average and 12 saves.

"We got clearance on his elbow," Melvin said. "It was just tendinitis, really.

[nohopspanther]

Thanks for the new sig Igor. I can't put it any better than you did.

[JoeHova]

Torres was already retired for 4 years so I doubt he's one of those guys who's real nervous about making that decision. He knows he can get by without MLB. I hope he reports to the team but if he doesn't, I can't be that mad at him. You'd think he'd like one last chance to pitch for a contender though.

[dpapo]

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette,

 

Just because Salomon Torres was traded to Milwaukee does not mean he has to go.

Torres, dealt by the Pirates yesterday for relief prospects Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts, said afterward he is considering retirement as much as he is considering reporting to the Brewers, even though he is guaranteed $3.2 million next year.

His reason: He is uncertain how a move will affect his family, which lives year-round in the North Hills.

"It's a giant move, and I have to make a decision if I want to go forward," Torres said. "This is going to change my life, my family's life. If I leave them here, they're going to have to be without me for a full year. If I take them with me, they're going to be affected."

Torres made clear he was not close to a decision, adding it might take several days or more.

"I just need to talk to my family. I can tell you this: If I go to Milwaukee, I'm going to give my heart and soul to the Brewers," he said. "If I stay, I'll be the same way. I'll be the one playing with my daughters and son and maybe even doing some of the cooking. It's a big decision, and I'm going to base it on my family."

Torres, a devoutly religious man who wears his heart on his sleeve, and his wife, Belkis, have two daughters, 4 and 6, and a 2-month-old son. That is one factor. Another is that Torres, 36, has spoken of retirement previously, having mentioned several times last season that he planned to pitch for only one more year. Also, remember that he retired in mid-career for three years before the Pirates signed him in 2002.

Once the trade was completed, shortly before 3 p.m. yesterday, Torres became Milwaukee property. Thus, if he retires, he will do so as a member of that team. The Brewers could appeal for a reversal of the trade, but precedents show they likely would lose.

Milwaukee officials attempted last night to sway Torres. Jack Zduriencik, the Brewers' scouting director and a New Castle native who knows Torres, had a lengthy phone conversation with him.

"I think it's all the emotion right now," Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said last night. "When he talked to Jack, he said he was thrilled to be coming to the Brewers. I'm hoping he gets over this. All indications he gave Jack were that he wanted to come..."

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07342/840202-63.stm

 

 

[RU Rah Rah]

I don't want to jump to conclusions or anything, but does he seem like he might be a bit of a head case? He retired in mid-career, and then came back; he filed a formal grievance against his team; and now he's threatening to retire again. There might very well be good explanations for all of those things, but in their totality they suggest a certain level of overall wackiness. (And it's a bit of red flag when reporters employ the euphemistic phrase "wears his heart on his sleeve.")

 

I guess as long as he actually joins the team and pitches well, it won't really matter. I could handle the wackiness then.

[igor67]

I don't think head case is very fair to the guy. It sounds to me more likely that he cares about family time, and doesn't feel the need to chase a few more million dollars at their expense. I think he'll come around, it probably just took him by surprise. And thanks for the quote nohopspanther

[nodderman]

We sat for opening day a few years back behind the Pirates bullpen in the first row. There was a very drunk person who kept passing out by the first inning. The Pirates relievers were laughing, but Torres kept trying to see if the guy wanted coffee, or something for his stomach. I think he is a great guy.

[Brewtacular]

We sat for opening day a few years back behind the Pirates bullpen in the first row. There was a very drunk person who kept passing out by the first inning. The Pirates relievers were laughing, but Torres kept trying to see if the guy wanted coffee, or something for his stomach. I think he is a great guy.

Wow. Very impressive thing to hear.

 

[brettac1]

This trade is almost like a posting fee. At this point, the Brewers gave Roberts and Salas to the Pirates for the opportunity to negotiate with Salomon Torres.

[djoctagone]

how long do the brewers have before they have to clear another player from the 40-man?

Now-ish, assuming Torres has passed a physical.

 

 

from tom's blog:

 

I was told the Brewers wouldn't announce who is coming off the 40-man roster until early next week. I guess they have some time before having to officially add Torres. They could send down outfielder Drew Anderson, release outfielder Kevin Mench or move somebody in a trade. Not sure right now.

 

that's at least three days before the brewers have to make a corresponding move. they don't get that luxury of time during the season, do they?

[splitterpfj]

Can you just imagine Doug Melvin's mood if Torres retires now? He bid 42 million dollars for his closer, only to have one team outbid him, and not be given the chance to match the offer. So, he builds a respectable Plan B, bringing in some solid vets to bridge the gap between starter and closer, and possibly have one of them wind up in the closer role....and a guy quits.

 

Some days, you just can't get a break.

[Team Canada]

Geno, who is this mythical $7M closer you want to bring in? I understand your discontent with the bullpen situation, but I don't know what you're suggesting instead, other than the fact that we should have signed Cordero, which was completely out of our hands.

[Paul77]

that's at least three days before the brewers have to make a corresponding move. they don't get that luxury of time during the season, do they?

I do believe that baseball works in business days (Monday-Friday) during the off season. The extra days would be the weekend with a move coming Monday. I could be wrong though, things change over the years.

 

Edit: Not to say they dont work on weekends, just that official filings are not done on weekends.

 

[igor67]

The roster rules probably aren't quite as stringent in the offseason as long as someone isn't trying to do something sneaky with a deadline like say the Rule V draft, and as long as the team isn't obviously dragging its feet for over a week. Part of this is probably just an acknowledgement that if you look at the Riske signing there is already a lot of discretion in when it becomes official anyway.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, they could drag it out by 'pending a physical' or something to that effect.

[whizkid]

Torres is acting like the concept of a trade is entirely new to him.

 

He's been with the Pirates for 6 years and settled in apparently so it is kind of new to him. Some post here about how much money do you really need to be comfortable. Maybe he agrees with that and values family etc. more.

 

In the end I doubt he'll retire. It's not like he's coming from a warm weather or particularly desirable location. The shock will wear off and he's got plenty of time to deal with the logistics of relocating.